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One thing worth bearing in mind is the road tax. Cars registered before 1/3/06 will cost a maximum of something like £300 per annum (can't remember exact amount), regardless of engine size or emissions. But after that date, it could cost well over £500 per annum!. Just sayin like!
Having said that, here are a couple of other slightly left field choices, both are less than 4.0, but both fast enough for most. The honda legend has a 290bhp 3.5V6, 4wd and looks extremely unassuming. The cadillac CTS 3.6 (a 2.8 version was also available), I don't remember exactly how much power it has, but I think it's around 250bhp. Not many of either to choose from, but I just thought of something else even rarer, the hyundai grandeur. Just had a look on autotrader, currently none available!. If you do find one, it's packing a 3.3 V6 with around 230-240bhp. Loaded to the gunnels with equipment, but probably the most unassuming of all the suggestions, partly as nobody will know what it is, and partly due to its totally anonymous styling!. I like them because of this (I also liked its predecessor, the hyundai XG30!).
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Thanks All, great responses to my question.
Badbusdriver- I meant the 4.2 diesel which is in the VW Touerag(have I spelt that right?).With the future of diesels being in doubt , I am hesitant to buy a potential scrapyard car.
SLO76, great links to the cars, thank you.What I didnt mention in my first post is that I have a LS430 now , which is as thirsty as they come, but that is to be expected and I am not complaining, but it is now getting a bit long in the tooth and so I am looking at moving on to something else before something major goes wrong.The 3 litre XJ looks like a good choice and reviews are positive ,if the 4.2 were as problem free that would have been a big plus.
Driving a 4.3 L, and then moving on to any other car which is less powered is like drinking water after wine and is not great.
pd, when I purchased the LS430 , I was told that the LS460 had some reliability issues not so much as an equivalent age BMW or MB,but more than other Lexus cars.Which is to be expected with a massive lump and complicated electronics that they have and part of the reason why I havent looked at the LS 460.
John F, the 6 litre A8 W12 sounds like an absolute beast and would be brilliant, but they are as rare as hens teeth and I could locate only a handful on autotrader, and most of them seemed to have gone through a fair amount of thrashing and wear,so it could potentially be a risky move.
Badbusdriver, the Honda Legend is a choice I was just aware of , but not considered ,but when you look the power/weight ratio, it may be equivalent to that of a 4.3 litre in a larger body Lexus.Has enough mod cons and a good choice.
Didnt realise that the road tax rules are almost double after 2016.More incentive to look for older cars then.
Never heard of the Hyundai Grandeur, is it similar to the Genesis?
Cyd, sadly the XJR seems to be out of my price range,but its power is breathtaking and a ?booster increases engine output from about 800 rpm onwards instead of from around 2000 k when a normal turbo would be expected to kick in.The chap who looks after my car service says the acceleration feels like it could literally pull your arm off.
RT-great choice ie a Bentley/Rolls.I would love to buy any car that has an engine that is in the Bentley, but sadly the price points are much higher.
The Phaeton was one I have looked at in the past, but I was put off by "the need to service the car only in VW showrooms as it looks like it can be serviced only in some locations.
Edited by JohnX on 23/06/2017 at 15:13
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The Phaeton was one I have looked at in the past, but I was put off by "the need to service the car only in VW showrooms as it looks like it can be serviced only in some locations.
That no longer applies - VW used to have certain selected premium dealers to sell Phaeton and Touareg with better after-sales than regular VWs, but importantly with a Master Technician trained in those two models - finally forced to accept that both models were Piech's vanity projects they quietly dropped the premium dealer programme, ended Phaeton sales and made Touareg available to any VW dealer.
My local VW dealer can service my Touareg but still have a Touareg master technician atr another branch if anything complex arises.
The better VW independents have VW trained technicians and may well have Phaeton/Touareg specialists on board - my local VW independent really seems to specialise in Audi S models so the others are well within their capability.
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Conveniently, of course, this appeared on the homepage of the website today, as a 'future classic'.
classics.honestjohn.co.uk/news/comment/2017-06/fut.../
Or there could be the much-overlooked Jag S-type. In 4.2 R trim, they are available for quite reasonable money, even in good condition and with moderately low mileage.
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Never really liked the S type - a friend has had a couple of 2.5s - but my local Jag specialist has a rare 4.0 V8 on stock at the mo with 115,000 miles for just £1500.
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Never really liked the S type - a friend has had a couple of 2.5s - but my local Jag specialist has a rare 4.0 V8 on stock at the mo with 115,000 miles for just £1500.
That'd be worth a punt. If it's a good'un, then it's aa absolute bargain. If it's trouble, then by getting rid you'd save yourself a fortune in fuel !
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I'm not aware of any reason why the Jaguar 4.2 should be less reliable than the 3.0. The early Jag V8s had some issues, mainly timing chain related, but the later 4.2 is a pretty solid engine.
The 3.0 isn't perfect, it is prone to running issues with air leaks and it has some stupid design features including things like having to remove the whole inlet manifold to change a plug.
I'd still consider the LS460 if I were you - fact is running the European stuff can come as one hell of a shock if you're used to the world of Lexus.
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I'd still consider the LS460 if I were you - fact is running the European stuff can come as one hell of a shock if you're used to the world of Lexus.
When I see the rubbish a friend gets from VW dealers dealing with his 10 year old VW (Sharan?), I agree..
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Agree that most European brands seem to crumble and cause issues after about 10 years.
However I am partial to VW's.
I had a VW Passat diesel 1.9 TDI for 12 years and by the time I moved on to the next car, it had done 140000 miles.
And apart from having the clutch replaced once, there were no issues at all ,for the 12 years that I had it.
Edited by JohnX on 24/06/2017 at 10:46
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As a committed Hondaphile have you considered a Honda Legend? At 3.5 litre they are not quite the perfect fit but are apparently supremely comfortable and packed with technology. Someone who used to live near me had one and he absolutely loved it.
There seem to be a few available around your price range but perhaps you are looking for something more traditional....
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brambobb I have been looking and can see high mileage examples at lower prices.they look like they are packed full of electrical wizardry.
Would 125000 miles be too high for a Honda,I wonder as I havent heard of many high mileage Hondas even Accords.
I was looking around for a Honda Accord for a friend in Amarillo, Texas a few years back and unlike here,Hondas enjoy a position of high demand in the USA, especially in the second hand market
I remember as soon as the Ad was placed, and seen in the local newspaper and online you had to be quick to get to them before they were snapped up, especially for cars which were older than 10 years.
Not sure if the situation has changed now but dont think it has.
Edited by JohnX on 24/06/2017 at 19:52
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JohnX - If you go on the main Honda Forum in the UK (www.hondakarma.com) there are lots of owners on there with Accords and many of them seem to have done well over 100k miles. I also see quite a few around as taxis, which gives some indication of their longevity and reliability.
Looking on Autitrader there are one or two Legends close to the price you are looking to pay and with very modest mileages (always assuming that everything is as stated). I could be tempted myself but they are a bit too large to fit in my garage alongside my wife's car and they are also fairly thirsty, I believe.
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brambobb ,that is an excellent forum and I have been mousing around hondakarma and there is a considerable amount of information,enough to steer me slightly towards the Honda Legend.
I prefer to spend as less as possible on the car for two reasons ie 1) on the assumption that I am going to get next to zero for the car when I move on to the next and 2)I prefer to spend the money on fuel and enjoy the fuel guzzlers.
As an example, my fuel costs in the Lexus average anywhere from £400 upwards a month depending on the distance but I have no regrets and much rather prefer to spend this on fuel than buy a posh looking poser car than moves like a mushy pea.
Plus the maintenance and repair costs that are to be expected in a massive older lump.
I would much rather buy a car than one that looks old and less wanted but has a stinker kickass engine under the bonnet.
Which is why the Honda Legend sounds like a reasonable option even though it is only a 3.5 L.
John F's car ie an Audi with a 6 litre W12 engine would be the ideal option though had it not been for reports that the electrical gizmos and suspensions tend to fail and cost a packet to replace.
Edited by JohnX on 28/06/2017 at 04:03
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Accords and Legends are fit for massive mileages, they're just a bit juicy for big mileage users to consider. The 2.2 diesel can suffer problems at six figure mileages but the petrol engines are pretty much vice free if a little greedy. This is less of a problem in the states where they're comparatively economical cars. I regard the Accord as one of the best used buys on the market currently from £500 to £8,000. Sadly later examples weren't imported due to poor sales and Honda have focussed on the Civic and CRV instead.
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However I am partial to VW's.
So am I
I had a VW Passat diesel 1.9 TDI for 12 years and by the time I moved on to the next car, it had done 140000 miles.
And apart from having the clutch replaced once, there were no issues at all ,for the 12 years that I had it.
We had a '94 Passat 2.0GL auto petrol for 10yrs, 9,000m - 242,000m. No issues apart from whining tension pulley which I replaced before it seized and fried the cambelt.
The W12 is not a 'beast', it's a beautiful compact engine taking less room than the 4.2 V8 and to the best of my knowledge has no reliability issues (unlike more primitive 12 cylinder engines I know of, one of which had its oil starvation problem cured by the amazing technical innovation of shortening the dipstick!) . Piech's 'vanity project' was actually the pursuit of automotive engineering excellence - can't see much wrong with that.
www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_267.PDF
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The Phateon is a great car but painful if any of the Phateon specific parts go wrong. They are generally only availbale from VW and cost an absolute fortune.
On the subject of Accords, I was smoking a 2006 2.4 auto last month for a couple of weeks. It has 220,000 on the clock. It drove like new and could have passed for 20k inside and out. Very well designed and built cars.
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The Phateon is a great car but painful if any of the Phateon specific parts go wrong. They are generally only availbale from VW and cost an absolute fortune.
But its powertrain in the ubiquitous A8 makes it less of a gamble - and a much better car!
On the subject of Accords, I was smoking a 2006 2.4 auto last month .....
What is 'smoking' in automotive context? Googling urban slang reveals a meaning which you might not have intended to convey....!
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"Smoking" is an old motor trade term. back from smoking rear wheels: think Dukes of Hazards.
"Bidet" is another motor trade term. It means rear wash wipe.
I went to a motor trade seminar a few months ago. This is about all I can remember from it.
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The Phateon is a great car but painful if any of the Phateon specific parts go wrong. They are generally only availbale from VW and cost an absolute fortune.
But its powertrain in the ubiquitous A8 makes it less of a gamble - and a much better car!
On the subject of Accords, I was smoking a 2006 2.4 auto last month .....
What is 'smoking' in automotive context? Googling urban slang reveals a meaning which you might not have intended to convey....!
Yep, smoking is trundling around in some old part exchange which maybe came in with a bit of fuel in the tank. In the old days you maybe got a bit of tax too!
Seriously though, I' mnot sure I'd consider the A8 connection a good thing. They are alarmingly fragile cars in places. Like everything VAG they look nice on paper but are fundamentally poorly engineered on the longevity front and their attitude is any owner should expect large bills every year as some sort of honour for owning one of their cars.
The reality is, once they get a few years old, most of the European stuff is frankly a pile of cack compared to the Japanese who seem to still vaguely test their cars for 30 or so miles before selling them. The list of VAG engineering disasters is so long from exploding oil pumps, oil consuming pistons rings to exploding gearboxes they really are not worth the grief unless leasing and running under warranrty IMO.
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The Phateon is a great car but painful if any of the Phateon specific parts go wrong. They are generally only availbale from VW and cost an absolute fortune.
But its powertrain in the ubiquitous A8 makes it less of a gamble - and a much better car!
On the subject of Accords, I was smoking a 2006 2.4 auto last month .....
What is 'smoking' in automotive context? Googling urban slang reveals a meaning which you might not have intended to convey....!
Yep, smoking is trundling around in some old part exchange which maybe came in with a bit of fuel in the tank. In the old days you maybe got a bit of tax too!
Seriously though, I' mnot sure I'd consider the A8 connection a good thing. They are alarmingly fragile cars in places. Like everything VAG they look nice on paper but are fundamentally poorly engineered on the longevity front and their attitude is any owner should expect large bills every year as some sort of honour for owning one of their cars.
The reality is, once they get a few years old, most of the European stuff is frankly a pile of cack compared to the Japanese who seem to still vaguely test their cars for 30 or so miles before selling them. The list of VAG engineering disasters is so long from exploding oil pumps, oil consuming pistons rings to exploding gearboxes they really are not worth the grief unless leasing and running under warranrty IMO.
It makes you think.
If the electric car does take off (assuming we can produce enough eecticity to charge them) all the common parts that currently fail at huge cost will now be obsolete
Ingoring battery life, will we see a time when the reliability of European cars will be a more realistic option?
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"It makes you think. If the electric car does take off (assuming we can produce enough eecticity to charge them) all the common parts that currently fail at huge cost will now be obsolete Ingoring battery life, will we see a time when the reliability of European cars will be a more realistic option?"
Would I trust French electrics?
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Currently running a 7 year old Peugeot 407SW which has all the toys. It runs well and all the toys work! Not found any problems with this Peugeot.
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The Phateon is a great car but painful if any of the Phateon specific parts go wrong. They are generally only availbale from VW and cost an absolute fortune.
But its powertrain in the ubiquitous A8 makes it less of a gamble - and a much better car!
On the subject of Accords, I was smoking a 2006 2.4 auto last month .....
What is 'smoking' in automotive context? Googling urban slang reveals a meaning which you might not have intended to convey....!
Yep, smoking is trundling around in some old part exchange which maybe came in with a bit of fuel in the tank. In the old days you maybe got a bit of tax too!
Seriously though, I' mnot sure I'd consider the A8 connection a good thing. They are alarmingly fragile cars in places. Like everything VAG they look nice on paper but are fundamentally poorly engineered on the longevity front and their attitude is any owner should expect large bills every year as some sort of honour for owning one of their cars.
The reality is, once they get a few years old, most of the European stuff is frankly a pile of cack compared to the Japanese who seem to still vaguely test their cars for 30 or so miles before selling them. The list of VAG engineering disasters is so long from exploding oil pumps, oil consuming pistons rings to exploding gearboxes they really are not worth the grief unless leasing and running under warranrty IMO.
After reading comments on the phaeton, I found myself idly looking at the good/bad section of the honest John review. Amongst the bad were a couple of gems. You can't replace 1 shock absorber, it has to be all 4 corners, meaning a bill of £3k. Another, was mentioning instances where the phaeton's jack has collapsed under the weight of the car, which seems pretty alarming!.
Also, specific mention was made of the W12 engine and how compact a unit it is. This may well be true, but that doesn't benefit the phaeton in any way. A W12 lwb version is nearly 450kg heavier than the lwb A8 equipped with the same engine!
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...I' mnot sure I'd consider the A8 connection a good thing. They are alarmingly fragile cars in places. ........ they look nice on paper but are fundamentally poorly engineered on the longevity front ......
First I've heard of this - can you be more specific? My nearly 12yr old A8 has a strong all-aluminium spaceframe body which will probably outlive me - and possibly you. It's only big bill was the replacement of an auxiliary radiator by a previous owner many years ago. Its W12 6HP26 quattro powertrain is robust and my research before I bought it revealed few problems in either Phaetons, Audis or Bentleys either here or in the USA. The air suspension bags can leak but they do not cost that much to replace. By the mid 2000s they had sorted the electrics out.
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