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A lorry sat nav wont stop drivers hitting bridges, for that you need drivers with a brain, not drivers that work for the lowest possible wage.
I used to pull Mega decks most days of the week and never had any problems with bridges as I planned my routes and used my eyes to look out for low tree branches and road cambers etc.
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A lorry sat nav wont stop drivers hitting bridges, for that you need drivers with a brain, not drivers that work for the lowest possible wage.
Quite.
Dumbing down to lowest common denominator and the one size fits all mentaility, no prizes for guessing the results.
There is a silver lining mind Wacky me old mate, at this rate we'll never be out of good well paid work.
What these people never realise is that the more you make something idiots proof, the more idiots are attracted to it, hence more idiot proofing needed, do we stop when we reach the bottom of the barrell or continue scraping.
Edited by gordonbennet on 28/01/2017 at 20:49
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Its not just more (low paid) idiots driving HGVs around, its also problems with the increasing amount of foreign HGVs on our roads, partly due to foreign workers being hired on lower salaries for UK firms, but mainly UK companies using continental delivery firms because for a long time (not quite so bad of late, but prices are rising again) because fuel prices in the UK were higher, so they fuelled up at the EU ports to save money.
I suspect many foreign truckers don't know (or don't bother/care, due to time constraints [i.e. needing to stop to check] and that they won't be using that road again for some time anyway) how to convert the feet and inches or imperial tons (if we still do that - not sure if our road signs for weight are in imperial - maybe not) into metric metres and kilos/tonnes. The same goes for them ignoring signage saying 'road narrows' or no HGVs, etc.
What doesn't help is the poor layout of road furniture by UK councils - often confusing and too many too close together to see, and rarely cleaned so some can be obscured by dirt or graffiti/stickers. Had one local sign obscured by a estate agency 'For Sale' sign!
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Its not just more (low paid) idiots driving HGVs around, its also problems with the increasing amount of foreign HGVs on our roads, partly due to foreign workers being hired on lower salaries for UK firms, but mainly UK companies using continental delivery firms because for a long time (not quite so bad of late, but prices are rising again) because fuel prices in the UK were higher, so they fuelled up at the EU ports to save money.
I suspect many foreign truckers don't know (or don't bother/care, due to time constraints [i.e. needing to stop to check] and that they won't be using that road again for some time anyway) how to convert the feet and inches or imperial tons (if we still do that - not sure if our road signs for weight are in imperial - maybe not) into metric metres and kilos/tonnes. The same goes for them ignoring signage saying 'road narrows' or no HGVs, etc.
What doesn't help is the poor layout of road furniture by UK councils - often confusing and too many too close together to see, and rarely cleaned so some can be obscured by dirt or graffiti/stickers. Had one local sign obscured by a estate agency 'For Sale' sign!
Weights aren't an issue in the road context as metric tonne and imperial ton are close enough to be interchangeable - kilos aren't used in the road context.
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Weights aren't an issue in the road context as metric tonne and imperial ton are close enough to be interchangeable - kilos aren't used in the road context.
Yep - wasn't sure, so its their stupidity or negligence (forced or otherwise) as the reason why they ignore the weight limits. Says everything about today's drivers.
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I didnt even know there were such things as special satnavs for hgvs.
All I know is that new cars with built in satnavs (and even wifi), most people get a nasty shock when they find out how much the map updates etc cost. My brother said kia wanted £180 for only a years worth of map updates, and to boot its a rubbish system.
Here maps or Google Maps are free and far superior to the rubbish Ive seen on the Infotainment carp fitted in modern cars. A £4 windscreen holder from Asda, a handdown Sony xperia from my son, and I have an excellent satnav positioned where I dont need to take my eye off the road.
I would like to buy a up range Skoda Superb, but I refuse to take certain options that are forced once you get much above the basic model. Low profile rubber bands, ridiculously large alloys, sat navs, and other gizmos. So it looks like I wont be buying one.
They've been around for a while - need to enter the vehicle dimensions and category then it just avoids roads too narrow, too low, too restricted on weight - and since speed limits vary by type of vehicle it optimises the route based on that.
Internet maps like Google are rubbish because they assume car and ignore other vehicle types - even for cars it's not that good.
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While we're on the subject... For a reason I cannot begin to fathom, it is perfectly legal IIRC to display bridge heights and even road widths in imperial only (or alternatively in both metric and imperial), which means that there are still many road signs displaying only feet and inches.
It's yet another mishmash (tyre sizes, anyone? Aviation?) which surely does not help things. Given that even the sharpest minds amongst us occasionally pull a door marked "push", a lorry driver sooner or later is going to mis-read a bridge sign displaying 4.4m/14'6" as 4.6m and get stuck.
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While we're on the subject... For a reason I cannot begin to fathom, it is perfectly legal IIRC to display bridge heights and even road widths in imperial only (or alternatively in both metric and imperial), which means that there are still many road signs displaying only feet and inches.
It's yet another mishmash (tyre sizes, anyone? Aviation?) which surely does not help things. Given that even the sharpest minds amongst us occasionally pull a door marked "push", a lorry driver sooner or later is going to mis-read a bridge sign displaying 4.4m/14'6" as 4.6m and get stuck.
Didnt the european union give us permission to use both imperial and metric,also admitting the imperial system was more accurate than metric.
though some artic drivers do struggle getting into some roads,and out from some warehouses into lanes, not helped by some dopey drivers
Edited by bolt on 28/01/2017 at 22:51
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Didnt the european union give us permission to use both imperial and metric,also admitting the imperial system was more accurate than metric.
That doesn't make sense at all. How can imperial be more accurate than metric? or the other way around ?
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Didnt the european union give us permission to use both imperial and metric,also admitting the imperial system was more accurate than metric.
We've never needed "permission" from the EU to use Imperial, it's a fundamental unit in UK law, in or out of the EU - WE decided to go partially metric.
Imperial isn't inherently more accurate than metric - but the display of inches rather than 0.1m makes it appear more accurate.
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Didnt the european union give us permission to use both imperial and metric,also admitting the imperial system was more accurate than metric.
We've never needed "permission" from the EU to use Imperial, it's a fundamental unit in UK law, in or out of the EU - WE decided to go partially metric.
Imperial isn't inherently more accurate than metric - but the display of inches rather than 0.1m makes it appear more accurate.
They were going to force the UK to go metric but gave up on it, a euro MP mentioned about accuracy of both measurements on the news once, but I cant find the reference to his comments
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Didnt the european union give us permission to use both imperial and metric,also admitting the imperial system was more accurate than metric.
We've never needed "permission" from the EU to use Imperial, it's a fundamental unit in UK law, in or out of the EU - WE decided to go partially metric.
Imperial isn't inherently more accurate than metric - but the display of inches rather than 0.1m makes it appear more accurate.
They were going to force the UK to go metric but gave up on it, a euro MP mentioned about accuracy of both measurements on the news once, but I cant find the reference to his comments
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They were going to force the UK to go metric but gave up on it, a euro MP mentioned about accuracy of both measurements on the news once, but I cant find the reference to his comments
It sounds like an idiotic statement that an MP might make. Neither units of measure is more or less accurate than the other. Maybe he also asks for his pizza to be cut into 12 pieces rather than 8 so he gets more pizza?
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While we're on the subject... For a reason I cannot begin to fathom, it is perfectly legal IIRC to display bridge heights and even road widths in imperial only (or alternatively in both metric and imperial), which means that there are still many road signs displaying only feet and inches.
It's yet another mishmash (tyre sizes, anyone? Aviation?) which surely does not help things. Given that even the sharpest minds amongst us occasionally pull a door marked "push", a lorry driver sooner or later is going to mis-read a bridge sign displaying 4.4m/14'6" as 4.6m and get stuck.
I presume you saw the report of Northumbria University using the metric system in experiments giving athletes caffeine? Got the decimal point two places out, administered 30 grams instead of 300 milligrams, the two subjects were in intensive care for days.
These were supposedly intelligent, educated people, as you say, anyone can make mistakes, whatever the system.
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While we're on the subject... For a reason I cannot begin to fathom, it is perfectly legal IIRC to display bridge heights and even road widths in imperial only (or alternatively in both metric and imperial), which means that there are still many road signs displaying only feet and inches.
It's yet another mishmash (tyre sizes, anyone? Aviation?) which surely does not help things. Given that even the sharpest minds amongst us occasionally pull a door marked "push", a lorry driver sooner or later is going to mis-read a bridge sign displaying 4.4m/14'6" as 4.6m and get stuck.
ALL UK road signs were in Imperial - a gradual change to metric for some measurements, height, width, length means that old signs aren't routinely changed so new signs have to be maintained in both - weight is unique in that 1 ton Imperial = 1.016 tonne metric so can be used interchangeably.
Tyre rim sizes were always Imperial, even in metric countries, it's a global standard in which the US is dominant.
Aviation altitude is always in Imperial as a global standard, again because of US dominance.
I tow a caravan, so higher, wider and longer which may be affected by restrictions - it's not difficult to have both dimensions for each one taped on my dashboard, eg height 2.652/8'8", width 2.28/7'6" and length 11.983/39'4"
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I tow a caravan, so higher, wider and longer which may be affected by restrictions - it's not difficult to have both dimensions for each one taped on my dashboard, eg height 2.652/8'8", width 2.28/7'6" and length 11.983/39'4"
You really have the height and length on your dashboard to 3 decimal places? When would you ever need that level of accuracy?
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I tow a caravan, so higher, wider and longer which may be affected by restrictions - it's not difficult to have both dimensions for each one taped on my dashboard, eg height 2.652/8'8", width 2.28/7'6" and length 11.983/39'4"
You really have the height and length on your dashboard to 3 decimal places? When would you ever need that level of accuracy?
I don't - but that's what the brochure quotes - maybe I'll round up to 2.7, 2.3 for the height and width - but the length has to stay under 12m for ferry calculations!
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To be fair to the foreign drivers, most of them do pretty well overall, certainly better than i would trying to find out of the way delivery points in rural areas in their home countries.
In this country we could be more accomodating, we voted overall for parties who wanted unlimited immigration and to give our sovereignty to unelected EU apparatchiks, so its a bit rich doing the old white flight flit to upper class Devon/Cotswolds/wherever then complaining when what you endorsed and fled from has followed...don't mind the cheap Polish nannies or other handy benefits for the middle classes of unlimited migration though.
In other countries, Italy especially, my sister spent many years there in artics, the attitude from locals is different, they realise without hers and other specialist vehicles coming through their villages the secluded factories would close, putting hundreds of workers on the dole and affecting many in factory support roles, leading to their village becoming a Brit style retirement home for well heeled white flighters instead of a working community.
When a lorry is due, the driver knows to contact the factory who make calls to others who might be affected, and the locals help the vehicles through, not do stupid things (like a few Brits would) of parking their cars in the way in an effort to make the lorry go another route, which doesn't actually exist anyway, in this country they'd try to get the factory shut, helpfully this would remove those unpleasant working classes from the now jobless district.
It's too late for the NIMBY's to jump up and down, you got exactly what you voted for, maybe a bit of help wouldn't go amiss instead of trying to live in the 1950's in your last remaining part of old England, you don't find this attitude in most parts of Scotland Wales or Ireland, where they have the sense to realise without these lorries there would be no work and no money, only the English think the nicer parts of the country should be reserved for the rich, how they think their supplies are going to arrive without lorries is another thing entirely.
In practice, very few foreign drivers in foreign lorries hit UK bridges, their vehicles are lower anyway due to general restrictions, its UK lorries that normally get hit whatever the nationality of the driver, and on that subject the Brit lorry driver in the Bristish regd lorry is going to be a rare beast in 20 years or less.
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Great post from gordonbennet; informative and coherent and (IMHO) spot-on! There seems to be a wider issue to the "anti-HGV" topic and I rather suspect it is a petty, twisted kind of class war. An awful lot of drivers in England have an inflated feeling of superiority over other vehicles, creating a hierarchy whereby hairy chested sports cars beat SUVs, which in turn trump the classic saloon car, followed by coaches then vans and motorbikes, with caravan drivers some way towards the bottom, probably only just ahead of 3 wheeled Reliants and cyclists. Lorries are seen as slow, dirty and "in the way", regardless of their tremendous importance to the economy, as GB points out.
The only other countries I can think of where a daily vehicular war is being fought day in, day out on the roads is Germany - with a purely speed-based hierarchy and woe betide anyone who holds up the Porsche driver in lane 3 - and, of course, France, where native French vehicles somehow rule over all the rest.
Oh, yes, and Italy.
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Lorries are seen as slow, dirty and "in the way", regardless of their tremendors importance to the economy
If they are handicapped with puny engines and and speed limiters then they have no choice other than to be in the way.
People who moan about lorries - I wonder where they think all their goods come from.
It's a bit like energy production. They want electricity in their homes, but don't want to see the wind turbines.
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That is half of the problem here in the UK, lorries are thought of as a nuisance and lorry drivers as lowest of the low working class manual workers.
In mainland Europe, Lorries and lorry drivers are respected. The drivers (especially German) are highly skilled and trained exceptionally well. There are special service areas for them where it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to stay or to get decent food.
What doesn't help in the UK is foreign 'drivers' driving UK registered lorries, these 'drivers' are mainly just economic migrants who have come with little to absolutely no experience of driving large vehicles. Many have obtained licenses without ever having sat in a lorry and big companies wishing to save money on wages have been employing them by the hundreds with little regard to what it does for their company image or for safety on the UK roads.
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On similar vein - lorries being overweight - check today's item www.scotsman.com/news/transport/lorry-traps-to-dri...4
But what I can't understand about sat nav is why people who commute using the same road 5 days a week need to have their satnavs on?
I had one in my last car, and used it once.... on the day I went to buy a new car... which came without one. In 50 years of driving, i just keep a mental image of the map, and jot down on a bit of paper the key junctions. never been lost yet. Never ended up driving into a river, or near to a cliff top.
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Careful Grumpyscot, using that there common sense openly, they'll be sending you for re-education if you carry on like that..:-)
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But what I can't understand about sat nav is why people who commute using the same road 5 days a week need to have their satnavs on?
I had one in my last car, and used it once.... on the day I went to buy a new car... which came without one. In 50 years of driving, i just keep a mental image of the map, and jot down on a bit of paper the key junctions. never been lost yet. Never ended up driving into a river, or near to a cliff top.
If you don't use your satnav, you'll no know they can warn of traffic delays, rerouting accordingly - and sometimes necessary to dive off the usual route if something unexpected occurs.
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If you don't use your satnav, you'll no know they can warn of traffic delays, rerouting accordingly - and sometimes necessary to dive off the usual route if something unexpected occurs.
A few weeks ago me and the Mrs had to go into the city early(ish) one morning. I knew the way (been hundreds of times) but not sure about the exact location of the address so I popped the post code into the built in sat nav in the Nissan but the route it suggested was miles out of the way. So I ignored it, went my way and forced the satnav into recalculating. About 1/4 of the way there we ground to a halt and then the local radio told us about the reason and the 50 minute delays.
At that point I went into the satnav page that gives traffic info. It listed the delay were were in and another 30 minute delay about 5 miles further on. So I turned round and drove to the route originally suggested by the sat nav. On the traffic page no reports of problems and we got to our destination with a couple of minutes to spare.
So next time I won't be quite so fast to think the sat nav is an idiot. Its obviously quite a bit more inteligent than I thought it was.
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