My Hyundia i30 has come with one remote and one non -remote key (I have paid for one other non-remote). The spare is kept by my wife. If I lock the car up with the remote, trying to open it with a non-remote sets off the alarm. The dealer assures me this is normal, although it was not the case with my Fabia, nor is with the family Colt. Presumably this means that, unless I unlock the car with the remote and then lock it with a non-remote, my wife can't use the car in my absence.
Surely this can't be intended? It sounds absolutely daft to me but the dealer will not de-programme the keys and this would, of course, affect insurance. It is a degree of security too far.
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My Citroen Xantia has the same arrangement, the remote locks the car and sets the alarm, the non-remote just locks the car.
There are 2 keys in the family, and, as yours, only one is remote. You should find that if you open it with the non-remote key and the alarm goes off, inserting the key into the ignition and turning it on silences the alarm and disables the immobiliser.
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It must be most annoying to live close to someone who owns one.
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Is there not a switch on the dash to disable the alarm when you think you may not need it?
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It's the same on some Fords but at least Ford supply TWO remotes for the ones where the alarm can only be set by the remote.If by mistake you unlock with the key,the alarm being on,starting the engine silences the alarm.
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If by mistake you unlockwith the key the alarm being on starting the engine silences the alarm.
If I then stop the engine and lock the car with the non-remote, will it set the alarm off again if I try to open it with the same key? If so, as indicated above, there will soon be a neighbourhood revolt!
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Same thing occurs with Vauxhalls if you open the car with the key in the lock. On these, the alarm silences when the key is put in the ignition and the chip is recognised by the ECU. Have you tried that? However, this alarm is intentional - it ensures the car alarm actuates if the lock is forced. Vauxhall, however, do provide only remote type keys to avoid this problem! Opening with the key in the lock is intended only as a back up in case of key battery failure. It does seem odd that Hyundai even supply non-remote keys if this is how it the alarm is set to operate. Can't see why 'deprogramming' keys would help. In fact the dealer can't really deprogramme them - if the keys are 'deprogrammed' from the car it won't start as it won't recognise the chips in the keys as valid. I can only suggest that for your model they shouldn't provide non-remote keys - they'd be fine on models without an alarm, though.
JS
Edited by John S on 07/04/2008 at 14:36
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My Seat has one remote, one non-remote- if you unlock with the key you have 15 seconds to get the key in the ignition and turned to stop the alarm going off. Locking with the key does however activate the alarm in the normal way.
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I thought difference between remote and spare key is that you don't need to physically put the key into the lock - that's all.
The situation described here, looked quite confusing.
Suppose you're on holiday with two keys. You lost the remote for somehow. So, how do you open the car with spare key without much drama?
Edited by movilogo on 07/04/2008 at 15:21
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This is a very normal situation. The remote fob is for the alarm; which has a convenience function of un/locking the car by sending a signal to the normal central locking system - they are not integrated. The key-lock only operates the central locking.
So if you set the alarm with the fob - the only way to disable the alarm is with that fob.
Otherwise; anyone who breaks a window, or forces a lock, to open the car will also be able to disable the alarm.
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That's not exactly how the Xantia's works, SL. The remote is exactly how you say, alarm set and lock as a convenience.
Locking with the remote sets the alarm. Unlocking with the key causes the alarm to trigger as soon as the door is opened. Turning on the ignition with the non-remote key disables the alarm (I assume through the immobiliser) and allows normal operation of the car.
Locking with the non-remote key, on the Xantia, does not set the alarm, so unlocking with either key system is a quiet, non-alarming operation.
Edited by mjm on 07/04/2008 at 17:08
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mjm
If the immobilizer is on the key, it'll be a chipped key linked to the engine ECU. The alarm must have an ignition link and is set to de-activate at key on.
Boy, am I glad I leave all the security hassles to my locksmith - nightmare....
Edited by Screwloose on 07/04/2008 at 17:28
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Sorry to seem dense but I still don't get it. Suppose I have locked the car with the remote and left it. I now come back with the non-remote and unlock the door. When I open it, the alarm will go off. I disable it by starting the engine. I stop the engine, lock the door with the non-remote. I come back and unlock the door with the non-remote and open it. Will the alarm go off again? I can of course find out by trying it but I have already blasted the neighbourhood too much. Otherwise, I will have to find a deserted out of town area for the experiment.
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bintang
Depends on the setting of what's quite likely to be an importer-fit aftermarket alarm and locking interface box.
If an ignition feed just disables it while that feed is live; then it'll reactivate and repeat the performance again. If it's set to go to sleep permanently once it sees an ignition feed; then it'll just sit there - waiting - until someone tries to replace the battery; that's a common nightmare.....
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Bintang,
I can't answer for your Hyundai but locking the Xantia with the key doesn't set the alarm, therefore unlocking it with the key doesn't trigger it.(quiet entry :)) I can only assume that, as SL says above, it goes to sleep.
TBH, if there was a way to do it I would ditch the alarm facility permanently and just keep the remote locking. Who in their right mind is going to tackle a well built thief over the contents of a car?
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Same on my Ford;alarm is ONLY set with the remote and can only be turned off BEFORE entering car with the remote.
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Every car I've owned with remote central locking has worked in the way you describe. The solution is a spare remote key, as your spare non remote key does not switch off the alarm when opening the car.
Even my new Skoda came with 2 remote fobs !!
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Mrs Manatee's Civic has the same booby trap arrangement as bintang's i30.
Our CR-V has a different bonkers arrangement. It came with 2 plip keys. I ordered a new non-remote key that cost £45 coded. Some time later Mrs M discovered that her plip key would not start the car. Assuming the rolling code business had somehow got out of sync, I took it to the dealer to get it recoded.
After the dealer had done this I produced the other 2 keys to make sure they both worked. At this point I was told that the car can only be paired with 2 keys. Sure enough one of them had been 'displaced' by the recoding of the plip key. Shame they didn't tell me this before I spent the £45.
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Am I missing something? Everybody above seems to be quite happily accepting a particularly crass piece of penny-pinching by manufacturers which - given that these things are mass-produced - must save literally only pennies. Is there some very good reason which justifies not supplying two remote keys with a new car?
If so, fortunately no-one has told Renault, VAG, Mini or Mercedes as we haven't had the problem. I think it was Renault who gave the world the word 'plip' - I had my first remote central locking on a 20TS in 1980 (complete with two plippers).
If you are, like us, a couple who drive each other's cars from time to time, don't accept it. I doubt if a dealer would allow it to break a deal, and would order a spare remote key if pushed. But it really shouldn't be necessary. Might HJ point it out in his tests if he spots it (if he already does and I've missed it, apologies).
Edited by Avant on 08/04/2008 at 00:22
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I doubt if a dealer would allow it to break a deal and would order a spare remote key if pushed.
We certainly did that when we bought the Jazz - the dealer supplied a second remote. However I noted in the Honda magazine that Honda admitted lots of people complained about this so they now supply 2 as standard.
I was pleasantly surprised that daughter's cheapy Colt came with 2 remote's - and the car doesn't even have an alarm.
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Our Kia Picanto is also like this-only supplied with one remote key, and non-remote spare key. If you always use the "remote" key- no problem. If you only use the "non-remote" key-no problem. But if locked with the "remote", then unlocked with the "non-remote", the alarm goes off until you put the key in, and the engine will start. However, unless the "remote" key is used next time, the alarm system will not sound. A nuisance, but not "life-threatening"
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Our Kia Picanto
A Picanto having an alarm seems a tad OTT. :-)
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recentley bought hyundia i30 with 1 remote 1 key can use remote to lock and key to unlock without alarm going off if you are in the car and someone locks the doors accidentley how do you get out appart from climbing through to the boot and using the catch to get out any ideas
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Rather strange that the Kia Cee'd, being basically a slightly de-specced version of the i30, has two remote keys; with the only difference between trim levels being the level 2 and 3 have keys that fold, whilst the level 1 don't.
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