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IMO diesel is still worth it. I drove a 1400Cc Almera for well over a month and the maximum I got out of it was around 40mpg whereas my Mazda 323 2.0TD always does more than 50mpg for the same journey.
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Yes it is. Modern diesels are cheap to run, good to drive, and usually very reliable.
We have one common rail diesel and one turbocharged petrol in our household. The petrol engine has a 100cc capacity advantage, a 70 bhp power advantage, and is pulling about the same weight. In a drag race, the diesel wouldn't see the petrol for dust, but the fact remains that if you drive them both "normally", the diesel feels no slower and returns about 30% better economy. To drive enthusiastically though, there is no contest at all. Petrol walks it.
But in a family car, what do you want?
Cheers
DP
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If anything, I suspect the Band B exemption for the London congestion charge and the changes to VED announced at the budget will boost the sale of new diesels, maybe even passing the 50% mark sometime soon for the first time in this country...?
Owning a diesel is often given as an economical decision, but I actually prefer the way they drive, and consider that before the cost.
Although the cost of ownership (taking into account purchase price, fuel economy and resale price) might make a petrol car the more sensible financial option for lower mileage drivers, I would probably just buy a slightly older or higher mileage diesel - for some reason, it seems easier to compromise this way or to swallow the pill of paying slightly more up front in a lump sum to buy a car than it does to have to be paying a third more week-in, week-out to fill up on fuel.
Not sure if that makes sense, maybe it's just me!
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XantKing - I agree with you. I have also learned to prefer diesels. My previous hatred for them has long passed and even if I my decision was less financially driven I think I would still have a diesel as the main family car.
Edited by shoespy on 22/03/2008 at 15:36
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10 years ago , diesels took 18% of the new car market.
It's now 40%.
The forecasts are for 50% plus.
Subaru are not introducing their first diesel for fun.
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As I said above,it's not cheap in the UK,but in most of the world it is cheaper,sometimes by a lot.
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It will be interesting to see diesel sales when the euro v legislation comes into force.
I wonder if they will maintain a similar share of the market.
I am not a diesel fan but may be tempted when I know they only pollute as much as a petrol after euroV - with the additional benefit of lower CO2.
Honda are the only brand to develop a self contained system so far (all the others using bluetec etc). It will be interesting to see how everyone else follows - I suspect Toyota are about there anyway with the D-CAT system.
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"most of the world it is cheaper,sometimes by a lot."
That was the situation in Spain until recently; the difference per litre is now down to 3 cents - might have to start using the farmers' pump!
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Diesel is ok if you like your driving to remind you of white goods,ie,boring,but does the job.Give me a free reving petrol every day of the week.Diesels are just boring.
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Yeah I am always bored when driving my Fabia vrS diesel, the one that outperformed the Mini Cooper on Top Gear.
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I know what people mean when they say petrol engines are more "fun". Indeed they can be, especially if you are zip zapping around, but for a long journey and for regular use, I would still prefer a diesel. They each have their place. Re boredom, I find having to fill up with fuel quite tedious and even with my diesel that seems to be far too regular an event ;-) Still quite enjoy being slightly unreconstructed in my wife's petrol hatchback mind when I'm fairly sure no one with a uniform and blue light is around !
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The difference when buying a used car is much less. I may well go for a Prius when I get a car for myself as it is easily the most economical automatic around, not to mention petrol being cheaper. At 3-4 years old its not bad value either.
Im a secret hybrid fan, not because they are economy kings as such but because as automatics they are very good comparing well to diesels. Thats why you see so many Prius' with older drivers ( retired prob ).
I get the impression the sky is the limit with fuel prices now, they seem to be creeping up weekly.
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I may well go for a Prius when I get a car for myself as it is easily the most economical automatic around. >>
not when they're on a long run at speed theyr'e not
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You need a BMW 520D instead!!
Look at timesonline for Prius/BMW comparison...
Edited by b308 on 23/03/2008 at 09:14
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The BMW costs £27k, the Prius £18k, the 520d averages 40 mpg and does 185 g/km, the Prius does better than that. Even the 320d only does 42mpg and179 g/km.
On what planet does that makes either car more economical than the Prius?
The Golf diesel auto does 48 mpg with emissions at 153 g/km.
So why the Prius is such a bad choice as even if it can only match the Golf, its still cheaper to buy the fuel and road tax.
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The BMW costs £27k the Prius £18k the 520d averages 40 mpg and does 185 g/km the Prius does better than that.
Oh dear someone else who has fallen for the hybrid con. It is absolute nonsense to base a cars green credentials on the amount of CO2 it produces. Hybrids are not green, their whole of life environmental impact is much greater than that of a conventional car.
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"Subaru are not introducing their first diesel for fun".
And Porsche are bringing out the Cayenne with the VW V10 TDI soon. And they said they would never sell a diesel!
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- which is something to do with refinery capacity and the demand for heatingoil. Someone may be able to enlighten us more specifically! But yes I'm sure we're being 'shafted by the oil companies' acting as they do in that depressing unison.
I thought heating oil was kerosene based noit diesel ??
The price differential for once isnt our lovely government, it is blatant profiteering on the part of the oil companies.
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SWMBO insisted on buying a new petrol Corsa last year as the (2002) Mazda 323TD we have 'is too big and awkward to drive'. After a week she aksed me to use the Corsa for my daily work commute because she was fed up putting petrol it and hated the lack of power.
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I was told by a motor engineer years ago that oil cannot be turned into whatever fuel you want. The refining process can only separate out the fractions that are there already so every gallon of unrefined oil is going to yield so much kerosene, so much petrol, so much diesel, so much heavy heating oil, etc, regardless of what the refiners can sell.
I didn't understand the technical details but I think I've got the basics right. I remember, too, I think, that diesel is much the same as household heating oil which maybe a reason why the diesel price is much higher in winter when the demand is that much higher.
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You need a BMW 520D instead!!
They are so sluggish - if you like pootling around town they are ok but they are just to underpowered.
Tried one and thought it was terrible.
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Why do people think PRIUS are good for the environment and ignore the pollution and filth involved in the manufacture of lead and acid for the large batteries and also the disposal of the same batteries in the future?
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I certainly dont care if it is, its just an economical automatic, I care abouts its enviromental impact much in the same way that anyone who doesnt buy an economical cardoes and does their damage to the enviroment an another way.
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All the article was showing is that you could have a bigger car with an efficient diesel engine that could better the Prius in real-world driving rather than in labratory tests...
If you insist on including price/emmissions, then look at the Band B list of cars and see the one that costs over £4k less than the Prius, has no extra batteries in its manufacture, is not as full of complicated electronics as the Prius and has a bigger boot....
Hybrids may be a way forward, but not with a petrol engine, all the batteries do is make a less efficient engine very slightly more efficient....
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>>Hybrids may be a way forward, but not with a petrol engine, all the batteries do is make a less efficient engine very slightly more efficient....<<
I beg to differ about how much difference the batteries make - look at the economy of any Focus sized petrol auto, most will be pushed to better 35 mpg in normal driving - id say the the Prius is more than just slightly more efficient. It may well not be the final solution and quite honestly I think its mystifying why they didnt start this technology with diesels, but its the most workable current idealogy. Its certainly going to make large 4x4's more acceptable.
I think many manual diesels can match a Prius but the automatic diesels seem to loose out considerably - 40 mpg average is poor by today standards from a company like BMW.
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>>I think its mystifying why they didnt start this technology with diesels,
>>
IIRC the Prius was aimed at the US market where diesels are not acceptable so the Brits are offered what is available not what may be best for the UK market.
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Think the key may be in when the batteries are being used instead of the engine - below 30mph, I believe. Thats why any auto without battery assistance (petrol or diesel) will fair worse than a Prius in town traffic, though using a small (1.4) diesel instead of the 1.5 petrol in the Prius would make a very efficient vehicle - especially as the diesel would also be far more efficient at lugging those batteries around than the petrol as it would have all the extra torque....
A diesel hybrid with a small 1.4 tdi engine would make a very tempting car I have to admit....
Edited by b308 on 23/03/2008 at 15:57
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Theoretically a diesel hybrid would be ideal - but I wonder how pleasant it would be to drive in town. With the Prius you can hardly tell when the petrol engine comes in, whereas with any current diesel you'd know about it soon enough....
I've had several long test drives in Priuses and would seriously consider one if I didn't do so many motorway miles, and also if it had better rear visibility. If ever there was a car that didn't need a spoiler, it's the Prius.
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You'd live with it I suspect - whilst the 3 cyl VAG engine is noisy, many of the other 1.4 4 cyl tdis are pretty quiet.... turn the radio up a notch or two!!
More importantly is pedestrian safety - if we all went about in silent electric cars I can see the death/injury toll going up in urban areas... so what's the remedy there?
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Towing a big static single cylinder diesel engine on a trailer to keep the battery charged ;)
Bet it would be a loophole in the congestion charge and emission regs though...
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"More importantly is pedestrian safety - if we all went about in silent electric cars I can see the death/injury toll going up in urban areas... so what's the remedy there?"
Make jaywalking illegal: and enforce it.
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Or maybe, and it sounds radical, but to look before you step into the road. I know its kinda out there but ive been doing it for years and it really works.
Honestly, does nobody take any responsibility for themselves anymore?
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>>Honestly, does nobody take any responsibility for themselves anymore?
I blame the government.
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Well, actually, I blame the blame culture.
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It's not us......... it's the others ;-)
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Is the Seat Ibiza Ecomotive 1.4TDi 80 PS DPF the most fuel efficient car around ?
Official figures :
Urban (mpg) 57.6
Extra urban (mpg) 88.3
Combined (mpg) 74.3
CO2 (g/km) 99
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Is the Seat Ibiza Ecomotive 1.4TDi 80 PS DPF the most fuel efficient car around? ...
Those economy figures caught my eye, so I looked for further information. One source said:
"And special low rolling resistance 14" tyres from Dunlop help reduce road friction. "
So, I think to myself, does this mean that "special" tyres are going to be more difficult to source. Are these splendid high-tech engines going to be highly-strung and costly to maintain?
Anyone any experiences of these things?
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So far the special 'low resistance' tyres i've come across have been awful in the wet, and they were from Michellin . Wonder if that applies to these too.
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Why do people think PRIUS are good for the environment and ignore the pollution and filth involved in the manufacture of lead and acid for the large batteries and also the disposal of the same batteries in the future?
Because they've got more of a clue than you and know they're not lead-acid batteries.
Sigh.
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still plenty of pollution in the battery make and dispose cycle.
Reality is that the hybrids and electric vehicles are for local air pollution. They displace pollution from point of use to point of generation and that makes a difference in smog laden california.
On an overall green-ness rating I still think that you are better off in a good diesel.
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"And special low rolling resistance 14" tyres from Dunlop help reduce road friction. "
I wonder if these narrow 165 tyres will wear out quickly on the front end negating the fuel saving over a few MPG less on standard tyres?
It looks like you could buy two diesel Pandas for the purchase price. That said, the fuel consumption is impressive as a stand alone statistic
Edited by oilrag on 24/03/2008 at 14:15
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Some low rolling resistance tyres have little grip as well.
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Dunlop were one of only three manufacturers who made tyres for the A2 as they were a special size - IIRC my fronts lasted over 30,000 miles and gripped well.
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