Hi, interested in what you say about plummeting economy at high speeds. I borrowed one for a 24-hour test-drive recently: as long as I stuck to the many & various speed limits on A & B roads, I was looking at 63-67 mpg on the trip-computer (which you interestingly say reads 5% fast). But as soon as I 'blatted' along a deserted motorway at high speeds, this fell to 47; and by the time I'd returned the car the following morning, using the same motorway but now heavily-congested, it was reading 51 - which I thought a bit disappointing. Mind you, I recently hired a Peugeot 107 petrol (alias Toyota Aygo), and it only did 45-46 overall - assuming the odometer was accurate - so everything's relative...
Don't remember the Panda becoming particularly noisy at high speeds - whereas the 107 drowned-out the radio - completely! - on the M54 at anything much more than 70, so again it's all relative.
What you've very usefully thrown-up, is that the Panda Multijet is even more of a nose-heavy little beast than the petrol version (which is to be expected), and that it chews through its front tyres. You talk of virtually two sets in 30,000 miles: if this is representative, it needs to be off-set against the low fuel, V.E.D., and insurance costs of the car. Back in 1996 I bought a Cinquecento Sporting which, like your particular Panda, was on alloy wheels and low-profile tyres: it consumed its front tyres in 12,000 miles with monotonous regularity - but its back ones hardly at all. Fiat must then have 'got at' Pirelli for giving their cars a bad reputation in this respect, so Pirelli then appears to have changed the rubber-compound. Result: 30,000 miles per set of fronts, 75,000 per set of rears - I'm not kidding! - and lousy wet-weather grip...
Lastly: Panda reliability. I asked the dealer I've bought several baby Fiats from about this question. The answer, very much like that given by one of the other respondents, is that they come in for routine service and then they go out again - with no 'untoward' work needing to be done. When I invited them to say the same thing about the Punto (or any other Fiat), they poilitely declined! I would agree with the respondent who suggested that Polish-built Fiats (like the Panda) were better than Italian-built ones (the rest).
Unfortunately the new 500 has been such a runaway success all over Europe that Fiat are now said to be contemplating building it in Italy as well as Poland: the Polish-built one I drove recently was one of the best-built cars of any description that I've ever been in. I rather doubt that the same thing will be able to be said about an Italian-built one - but how will one know, when placing the order, where one's shiny new motor will be coming from?
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My first set of Yaris tyres lasted 26k miles at the front. The rears were 60% worn (but a nail ruined one so I replaced them as well...)
A lot depends on your driving style. Round here fast cornering on country roads = sudden death or mutilation or drowning or contact with a stone wall...or a cow or a bunch of walkers:-)
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Of course you're right: a lot depends on the way a car is driven. On the other hand, when I complained to my dealer about the 12,000-mile life of the front tyres on the Cinquecento Sporting they'd sold me, they said they thought I'd done very well! And I thought of myself in those days as a pretty fast driver...
One thing I failed to say, is that Fiats CAN still snap their clutch-cables. My Seicento Sporting has just done this, at 6 years of age and ca 50,000 miles. With the car's front wheels hard against a high kerb, when I depressed the clutch there was a loud bang and the pedal went straight to the floor. Being an "old pink fluffy dice" I knew how to get the car home using just the synchromesh and the ignition key - but I rather wonder how many of today's young drivers could have managed it: the young salesman at the Fiat dealer's certainly listened in wide-eyed wonder as I told him the story!
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 16/02/2008 at 21:58
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Some interesting points about tyre wear on Multijet Pandas - funnily enough I looked at the front ones (Conti EcoContacts) on ours today and was surprised to note that there is just under 3mm of tread left at just over 11k miles.
This is to be contrasted with our Mondeo TDCi, which aside from being much heavier and twice as powerful, is driven a fair sight harder but will do nearly 25k on a front pair (Bridgestone ER30).
I did wonder if this is partly a feature of EcoContacts though - anyone able to enlighten as to how these wear compared with other makes?
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My daughter's Panda 1.1 Active runs on these tyres and after 22,000 miles there is plenty of tread left. However, I do rotate tyres back to front and vice versa every 6,000 miles so all 4 tyres are about the same. I reckon the set of 4 will last until about 30,000 miles.
The 1.3 MJ is a different kettle of fish. Heavier, especially at the front and with a lot more power and torque than the 1.1. Your front tyre wear seems about right and i don't think you will find a significantly harder wearing make. Why not rotate the tyres though. Otherwise you end up with slightly worn rears that are still on the car long after they have deteriorated through age rather than use.
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Our MK2B Punto 1.3 Multijet van is on original Firestone `Fuelsaver`165/70 R14 tyres and estimated front end wear will be around 23,000.
It would be interesting to know the tyre size on the Panda 1.3 Multijet and the comparative weight. I think our van is around 1,000KG
regards
Edited by oilrag on 17/02/2008 at 09:58
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doctorchris - good advice re. rotating - I'll give that a go.
oilrag - 155/80 13. Always struck me as a bit skinny, but seem to do the job OK & the extra weight does improve stability - our old 1.2 petrol (with same wheels and tyres) always felt a bit skittish and prone to understeer. Not sure about kerb weight but fairly sure <1 tonne.
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Stumbled across this thread whilst looking for a locking fuel cap for my 2 day old multijet panda.......
The car always had a good report from HJ, and I've fancied one for ages. Then the wife decides she needs to start driving again and wants a small car. Diesel, of course !
Its just done 113 miles, from stop start rush hour traffic, to A roads and a 75mph, 55 mile cruise along the M60. The car is very quiet, even when cold (not tried sub-zero yet) and thanks to the high gearing the car purrs along at normal way speeds. Ihe car is very quiet for a little tin box, and I'm impressed with the refinement
One odd thing is that the accelerator has very long travel, so you have to give it a real push to get going. I always hate running in cars, but diesels need to be driven hard(ish) to prevent bore glazing and associated high oil consumption.
The engine is still very tight, and the oil is still clear, but 70mpg was shown on an A road trip, dipping to 48mpg at a steady 75.
With a few more miles and a looser engine, I'm expecting better but am more than satisfied with the car - its a little belter.
BTW previous experince with tyres has led me to favour Michelin Energy ones. They're quiet, grip well and do make a difference. They also seem to last for ages too. If you're in Costco, they do very reasonable prices for tyres. They quite £35 for an energy tyre for the Panda.
Edited by krebb industries on 04/05/2008 at 22:14
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My Yaris diesel gets about 26,000 out of front tyres. And rears.. cos I swap around.
I use Bridgestones as my local garage has a cheap deal.. about £33 balanced and fitted per wheel.
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Stumbled across this thread whilst looking for a locking fuel cap for my 2 day old multijet panda....... The car always had a good report from HJ, and I've fancied one for ages. Then the wife decides she needs to start driving again and wants a small car. Diesel, of course ! Its just done 113 miles, from stop start rush hour traffic, to A roads and a 75mph, 55 mile cruise along the M60. The car is very quiet, even when cold (not tried sub-zero yet) and thanks to the high gearing the car purrs along at normal way speeds. Ihe car is very quiet for a little tin box, and I'm impressed with the refinement One odd thing is that the accelerator has very long travel, so you have to give it a real push to get going. I always hate running in cars, but diesels need to be driven hard(ish) to prevent bore glazing and associated high oil consumption. The engine is still very tight, and the oil is still clear, but 70mpg was shown on an A road trip, dipping to 48mpg at a steady 75. With a few more miles and a looser engine, I'm expecting better but am more than satisfied with the car - its a little belter. BTW previous experince with tyres has led me to favour Michelin Energy ones. They're quiet, grip well and do make a difference. They also seem to last for ages too. If you're in Costco, they do very reasonable prices for tyres. They quite £35 for an energy tyre for the Panda.
Sure you its a diesel, oil clean, mine doesnt look clean when he has just changed it, i have had 2 multijets and both used oil till around 3000 miles and settled down to using none, mine now is nearing 90000 miles and runs superb far better than when it was new.
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Tyre wear.
On Cinquecento Sporting the Goodyear alternative to Pirelli is a far superior tyre - fronts last 15,000 miles or so.
More importantly, for some years the official advice on tyres on frontwheel drive cars is to put new tyres on the BACK and swap used backs to the front, otherwise backs never wear out but become dangerous. Much better than rotating.
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I would just like to point out that this is a very sensible measure.
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Some interesting points about tyre wear on Multijet Pandas - funnily enough I looked at the front ones (Conti EcoContacts) on ours today and was surprised to note that there is just under 3mm of tread left at just over 11k miles. This is to be contrasted with our Mondeo TDCi, which aside from being much heavier and twice as powerful, is driven a fair sight harder but will do nearly 25k on a front pair (Bridgestone ER30). I did wonder if this is partly a feature of EcoContacts though - anyone able to enlighten as to how these wear compared with other makes?
My multijet i get about 14000 out of front tyres, but i usually change them every 12 month service, the tracking does not easily go out, the pandas have a slight positive camber, and to prove this took it for 4 wheel tracking after 90000 miles and 5 years motoring, and it was spot on , it has never been touched, ITS DOWN TO POSITIVE CAMBER.
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Hi just to keep you up to date had my second warranty claim in march when in for 36k service i had noticed a gradual minor coolant loss over 3 years asked garage to check & they reckoned it was the water pump so new one fitted. Incidentally garage Walkers of South Otterington very good service manager Steve very helpful & Knowledgeable proper village garage. At same time replaced the radio volume button kids + radios dont mix thought was expensive for a placcy knob though.
Subsequntly had big problem with tailgate not locking well central locking going a bit nuts phoned Walkers up they had seen problem before & disconnected plug for tailgate handle m/switch they ordered up new handle assy fixed it cost me £90 as Fiat turned down the warranty claim. Subsequently I wrote Fiat a nice letter and they sent me a cheque after a short delay. Always pays to ask nicely. Anyway 39K on Mjet Panda now my journey has become a weekly 140 mile each way blat to & fro from West Mids economy 60-65 mpg.
Still a happy bunny car is v good for the money just a bit less of an advantage over petrol versions as diesel 10%+ more than petrol but I still think Mjet best engine available in a Panda though if they were to fit out one with a higher powered version of same motor + bits off 100hp then that would be my next purchase.
Any suggestions on tyre choice for next set of rubber would be welcome for the alloys to improve mpg and tyre roar.
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The reason I rejected the Panda (and the new Punto) was that I couldn't accommodate to the awkward left foot rest.
I would recommend an extended test drive for any car. My local Fiat dealer was happy to let me have cars for a couple of days.
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Not trying to be funny, but why is the Panda diesel so thirsty? I know high 50's is good an all, but its the same sized car as my Charade and mine does 59 mpg on petrol ( almost exlusively round town ), so surely a diesel should be doing better than that and surely better CO2?
Im just puzzled about why the Panda isnt streets ahead of the Charade in the same way that diesel usually are over their petrol counterparts?
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Same engine to be used in the revised Ford Ka (produced alongside the Fiat 500 in Poland), and suppposedly "will be good for 75bhp and 145Nm of torque, while returning more than 50mpg." - which is pathetic in the current climate.
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Same engine to be used in the revised Ford Ka (produced alongside the Fiat 500 in Poland), and suppposedly "will be good for 75bhp and 145Nm of torque, while returning more than 50mpg." - which is pathetic in the current climate.
Certainly a big improvement on the crap it replaced, ford can call it what they like durotorq whatever but the old ka you would only get early 30s out of it, and the 4 month old car i had to buy off my daughter was already rusting, so fiat building new ka big big improvement
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Agreed, I can get 50mpg out of an xsara with a reasonable foot!
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I think its telling that the Mini diesel, a decently quick car, can almost equal it on economy and the Cit C1 diesel is some way ahead. atleast on paper.
Since the whole point of a diesel is pretty much economy, what is it about the multijet that makes it weak in economy stakes, atleast in the Panda? Anyone know the drag figures on a Panda? Im just wondering if its let down by aerodynamic issues rather than the engine.
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Stu, According to Parkers your Charade only weighs in at 720kg. Perhaps part of the answer is there.
My Mk2b Punto van 1.3 Multijet, weighs 1,008kg and gets into the low 70`s with a return trip best of 79mpg.
I think the Panda`s not much different in weight to mine, nearly 300kg up on the Charade is a fair bit of extra weight although a some of that will go in increased size, strength and galvanising.
According to the Australian, the Charade is a Micro Car, so perhaps you`re comparing to a class up when you compare the Panda.
tinyurl.com/5gdmtf
It just shows though, we should be getting diesels into cars the weight of yours. Perhaps the impending diesel and petrol twins from Fiat will take us in that direction.
regards
Edited by oilrag on 31/05/2008 at 20:54
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Oilrag - your right of course, the Charade is a light car, point taken on that. Maybe its just the driving style of some owners which accounts for the poor figures as it would seem that there is more to come, but as ever, some cars find it much harder to get to the combined than others.
The Panda is as far as I can tell, is marketed as a city car, exactly the same as the Charade. Not only that but the rear legroom and interior space in the Charade is comparable to the Panda. The Charade actually has more rear legroom than our Forester had, its a miracle of packaging but entirely true.
Oh and get this - the Charade, according to HJ, got a 4-star NCAP rating, so its obviously not lacking strength? The Panda, according to the info I could get, is a 3-star, so whats going on thereIts only 10 cm shorter too.
I absolutely agree that a diesel in a car like the Charade would be a very interesting prospect indeed and its a mystery as to why nobody has yet done it.
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Because it more than good enough with the petrol I guess Stu, and balanced around that units weight.
I`m not convinced 16 valves helps economy on the Multijet. It notable that the 1.4 HDI in the Citroen is 8 valve.
Looks like your Charade is just what you needed. Glad you`re enjoying it ;)
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"Maybe its just the driving style of some owners which accounts for the poor figures"
Agreed Stu, Its the turbo boost on diesels I think and how its used.
My colleague had a Maestro or Montego? with turbo, my Maestro had not. Both Perkins Prima`s in the early 90`s.
I was getting up to 60mpg, he struggled to get 40.
The reason I can get well into the 70`s on the Multijet is that I drive it on very minimal boost while accelerating. But I guess a lot of drivers floor the throttle.
If a driver moves from petrol to turbo diesel doing that, IMO they have more to loose on economy in the diesel.
Just a thought ;)
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It is thanks :-) the more time I spend with it, the more Im convinced it is a very underrated car. Im not anti-Fiat Panda funny enough, but im very glad that I have my Charade instead of a Panda, which incidentally, I had the chance of buying at the same dealer - it was the cheap tax and economy that swung it for the Daijit in the end, but now ive piled 1500 miles onto it, Im becoming very aware of just how deep its talent goes.
Even bearing in mind that its economy is good with petrol, I get the impression it would be perfectly possible to design a city car that has a good overall set of talents and still be light and carry a diesel unit effectively. Obviously there are many cars in the pipeline along these lines, so one can hope that they do move the game on significantly in terms of everyday economy.
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why don`t you give us all a review on it Stu, in a new thread?
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I mite get told off, my threads have a habit of dragging out!
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The small diesels mentioned don't seem much more economical, in the real world, than my 2002 Vauxhall Astra Estate 1.7dti. I average around 50mpg, every time brim to brim. Mind you, I don't race about but I do plenty of short journeys such as trips to specialist shops on industrial estates. These are timed to avoid rush hours.
On a long, gentle motorway trip on which the speed limit is not broken, my car will do around 55mpg.
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With the price of Diesel as it is I question the merits of small Diesels like this, particularly as the Mulitjet is way more complicated than the petrol engines. I'd go for the 1.2 and enjoy revving it as this is what small Fiats are about to me (My first car was a Fiat Uno 45 FIRE). My personal favorite small car though is the Citroen C1. The little Toyota triple is a gem. It will do 50 mpg and yet has more character than any small Diesel. You can get some great deals on it as well (seem to be discounted more than the idenetical Peugeot 107 and Toyota Aygo.
Edited by Mattbod on 31/05/2008 at 23:51
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I posted a while ago about my company car, the 6 speed Astra CDTi - which I think uses the same engine as the Panda and other small diesels?
Very, very laggy from a standing start - rev it less than 3k if y9ou need a quick start and it will near enough stall.
However once its up to speed its very nice to drive - very torquey for what is only a 1.3 diesel... so I imagine the same engine in a little car with less bulk to shift would be pretty good. I wouldn't mind trying the Panda.
That said, when I do change my car, my budget will be 3-4k on finance, so I'd rather get a slightly older familymobile and benefit from the comfort and toys that come with it at the expense of 3mpg if I get the right engine to match it!
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I kind of agree. Diesels are a slightly more work to maintain I imagine (heavier components moving with greater power). But, you get more power than a petrol and hence a better mileage. True, diesel is pricy and that is perhaps the major drawback, and why petrols are a cheaper option. I can see what you mean when you consider the new value of a diesel. Performance of the Fiat Panda petrol to diesel is almost the same - the diesel is only a tad faster as a result of its turbo aspiration.
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I absolutely agree that a diesel in a car like the Charade would be a very interesting prospect indeed and its a mystery as to why nobody has yet done it.
Daihatsu themselves have done it - 23years ago there was A Daihatsu Charade turbo diesel. It didn't sell very well and was overshadowed by the legendary Gtti, gently driven you could eak out well over 70mpg - professional drivers in economy competitions achieved around 100mpg! I think the Charade is superb - light as a small car should be and therefore very efficient.
The Panda's a little cracker, the MJ isn't particularly economical, however you get big car performance on the motorway which is the point I suppose.
As for all this stuff about Fiats and clutch cables - there is probably some truth it in, I'd rather have a simple snapped cable than the whole mounting assembly and cable tearing itself through the bulkhead as used to be the case with Mk1 Golfs and Jettas - I don't see people moaning about that even though it was very common! All cars have faults some less than others.
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Hi just to keep you up to date had my second warranty claim in march when in for 36k service i had noticed a gradual minor coolant loss over 3 years asked garage to check & they reckoned it was the water pump so new one fitted. Incidentally garage Walkers of South Otterington very good service manager Steve very helpful & Knowledgeable proper village garage. At same time replaced the radio volume button kids + radios dont mix thought was expensive for a placcy knob though. Subsequntly had big problem with tailgate not locking well central locking going a bit nuts phoned Walkers up they had seen problem before & disconnected plug for tailgate handle m/switch they ordered up new handle assy fixed it cost me £90 as Fiat turned down the warranty claim. Subsequently I wrote Fiat a nice letter and they sent me a cheque after a short delay. Always pays to ask nicely. Anyway 39K on Mjet Panda now my journey has become a weekly 140 mile each way blat to & fro from West Mids economy 60-65 mpg. Still a happy bunny car is v good for the money just a bit less of an advantage over petrol versions as diesel 10%+ more than petrol but I still think Mjet best engine available in a Panda though if they were to fit out one with a higher powered version of same motor + bits off 100hp then that would be my next purchase. Any suggestions on tyre choice for next set of rubber would be welcome for the alloys to improve mpg and tyre roar. continental ecocontact 3 superb
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