Hello all and thank you very much for your contributions so far.

Ground clearance: The exchange between KB and thunderbird has made me think hard about the real advantages of the yeti over the competition. I'm aware that the 1.2 TSi petrol model I'm interested in is 2WD, not 4WD, and as a result off-road capabilities are not significantly better than those of any other 2WD such as the Berlingo. That said, the extra ground clearance could be a big help when dealing with muddy tracks at the allotment site. I was driving a borrowed Nissan Micra on a European country road last summer when suddenly I felt the car almost going up on the air! My partner looked back to see a massive pothole on the road which, as the road was slightly downhill, was invisible to the unsuspecting driver. It was a good thing the underbody was not scraped! This is the kind of problem I was hoping to avoid with the yeti.

I've therefore looked at the different measurements of the Berlingo and the yeti to see how much extra ground clearance the yeti offers. Unfortunately, I can't seem able to find the relevant figures on the 'dimensions' page on the Citroen and Skoda website. They're probably there, in plain view, but for some silly reason I can't locate them. Here are the relevant pages:

www.skoda.co.uk/GBR/newcars/yeti/dimensions/Pages/...x

www.citroen.co.uk/home/#/new-cars/car-range/citroe.../

A comparison of the two cars on the whatcar website shows clearly that the yeti has more clearance than the berlingo as the latter has a low boot sill (for easy loading I guess).

Edited by philonenko on 05/02/2013 at 13:59

countryroads: I hadn't realised the caddy can be fitted with windows, I thought it was only the Caddy Maxi and the Maxi Kombi that could. I'll have to read the brochure more carefully.

Re. what you say about the yeti, would you happen to know where I can find out more about the construction of the underbody?

Basically the argument is a total waste of time. The OP asked for advice and I pointed out to him that Skoda Yeti would be no better than any other 2WD drive car for getting to his allotment. If he wants some 4WD capability get the 4WD model. None of us except for the OP knows what the track is like.

If you think a bit of extra ground clearance and a few bits of underbody protection turn a city car into a cross country vehicle it finally proves that the marketing people have brainwashed the public.

We looked at the Yeti in the showroom when we test drove an Octavia estate. the Yeti was far too small, no bigger than any other small hatch.

Go for the Berlingo

If you want a tough but slightly basic load carrier you will do no better. The luggage space in the Berlingo is huge compared to the oposition, the Yeti for example is only a small hatch with added style.

Drive them, measure them and make your own decision. It's what I do when I buy a car, never listen to salesmen and the press.

daveyK-UK: thanks for the tip-off. Would I need to check they're properly aligned or is it something I'll just have to live with if I go for the berlingo?

skidpan: yes, I'm slowly realising how big the Berlingo is compared to the yeti. A quick look at the comparison tables shows that it's longer, slightly wider and taller than the yeti, not to mention the fact that it has nearly double the amount of boot space! This car is huge! The yeti has more style and ground clearance (and reinforced underbody, perhaps?) but I'm wondering whether these two factors are enough to justify the added expense. Not to mention that from the two models I'm comparing (Berlingo 1.6 HDI 90 diesel vs. Skoda 1.2. TSI petrol) the Berlingo has the more powerful engine. Decisions, decisions, decisions...

Edited by philonenko on 05/02/2013 at 14:10

Following thunderbird’s description of the Yeti as a ‘City’ car, I’ve come to the conclusion that his overall grasp and general level of knowledge of the classification of cars in general is negligible.

Having been driving for almost 40 years I can confirm I definitely have an excellent grasp of cars and what classes they fall into. I have owned cars from 2 seater sports through superminis, hot hatch, small people carrier, large hatch/family car and estate. Never owned a city car, don't live in a city. Don't go off road thus have never owned a 4 x 4.

KB please read my posts and show me where I called the Yeti a "city car", I have called it a small hatch which is what it is. I agree that the i10 is a city car.

What no one on here has mentioned is suspension travel, to be a decent offroader this is essential, no point in having extra ground clearance without it. Does the Yeti have better than is norm for its class, I doubt it.

In the post you mention to I was not refering to the Yeti as a city car, I was using the generic term City car to say that it takes more than a bit of extra ground clearance to turn any car into an off roader. But I don't expect you to accept that.

When I have mentioned the Yeti specifically I have referred to it as a small hatch.

One of these days when I am bored enough I will visit a Skoda dealer and ask them to demonstrate the off road capabilities of a 2WD Yeti to me on a suitable piece of bumpy, muddy ground. I am confident that they would suggest I bought the 4WD version for such use or tell me to go to a Land Rover dealer rather than risking their car being drive over land its not designed for.

With regards to your question about have I owned one etc, if you had bothered to read my previous messages you would have seen that we looked at it but found it way too small even compared to the Octavia we were considering. Small boot, no spare, poor seat folding arrangement, need I go on. Not exacly a workhorse.

My views may be different to yours but if I want a car suitable to go off road I would buy one built for the job. This class of car to me is just all marketing hype with no particular substance. Its way smaller than a decent estate, had no real off road ability and the manufacturers charge a premium for them. Due to the extra height they are not great on fuel.

They are simply a fashion accessory like a Mini, Fiat 500 or several other cars of today.

So, overall, taking everything into account, would you say you'll be buying one soon?

What do you think. Will stick with the Ceed SW, does what it says on the tin, does not pretend to be something its not.

And as much as I hate the 2WD car pretending to be a 4WD at least the Sportage has a big boot, a spare whee, good interior spacel as well as the huge ground clearance that you yearn for. Way better than a Yeti for the same money.

There have been a number of messages on the topic, and I'd now like to recap.

The GOLF has been ruled out as it's a family hatchback, not a car to lug spades and wooden planks around, and also it is over my budget. In addition, I find its conservative looks rather unappealing. On the other hand, VW has an excellent reputation for quality and reliability and my partner insists I test drive one if we go to test drive the caddy.

Citroen Berlingo

Pros: reliable at least up to the 100k miles mark (at which point it's probably a good idea to sell on...). Has massive boot space, will survive a bit of mud but nothing too tenuous; versatile enough to be used both for travelling around the country and for lugging stuff around, so seems to suit my needs fairly well. Btw, msstw, nice pics, you've got a great mod there.

Cons: suspension problematic, ground clearance average (for a city car, I guess), so it may struggle a bit with the mud at the allotment in winter.

Skoda Yeti

Pros: attractive looks; though not a genuine off-roader, it has better ground clearance and suspension travel than the Berlingo, therefore will manage the allotment and any other muddy surface I may decide to take it to (but not real off-road).

Cons: more expensive than the Berlingo and offers less boot space. For an extra £2k I'll still get a less powerful engine (I'm comparing the Berlingo 1.6 HDI 90 diesel to Skoda 1.2. TSI petrol).

Areas I need to research further: tyres. It is agreed, I think, that winter tyres will make some difference to handling dirty tracks in winter conditions. I'll have to find out what kind of tyres I'm getting with the models I'm keen on and whether it makes sense to get the winter tyres as an extra. I may come back to this if I need more information (and hopefully the helpful people on the forum will provide opinions and advice).

A new candidate has arrived on the scene. the Peugeot Tepee. Bromptonaut, thanks for alerting me to this poissibility. I was aware that the Partner was almost identical to the Berlingo, however a quick search reveals that the Tepee also includes a model that offers 'outdoor' use. I'm going to investigate further and report back.

The 1.2 TSI Yeti - although the cubic capacity is smaller than the Berlingo's - is actually more powerful with 105 bhp. However the Berlingo and Tepee are cheaper and you'd have to get a secondhand Yeti within your budget.

You need to get a good long test drive of the cars on your shortlist. I haven't driven a Berlingo or a Tepee (which I would guess will feel quite similar) but they are both practical utility van-based vehicles (and by all accounts very good at what they do) whereas the Yeti is more plush and very good to drive. It depends on what your priorities are.

"Do you decide on a car/model first and try to close the deal on the same day that you test drive or do you test drive first and go back for the deal when you've made up your mind?"

Obviously we don't know how much experience you've had buying new cars so it's possible that advice might sound like teaching your granny to suck eggs. But personally I do as much research online as I can....it's far better to know as much about the product as the salesman...and that's often not difficult. Having become familiar with the product I then find out how much it's available for online via brokers. I check vehicle specific forums to see what actual owners/users have to say. I visit a variety of dealers to see, touch, smell, the car...and at some stage, drive the car. But never place an order first time round. Having decided on a specific vehicle I balance the advantage of buying locally and establishing a relationship - versus, perhaps, saving two thousand pounds on the car buy buying at a broker or a distant dealer who offered a better deal....and then taking it locally for servicing and warranty work. My decision will be coloured by the make of the car and the perceived customer service or previous personal experience of the manufacturer and or dealer network.

To be honest no-one can give a lifetime's worth of car buying experience in a few lines but you're going the right way about it , it would seem to me.

Having said all that, it has become apparent to me in the last day or two that my own particular car isn't the remarkably nimble and safe, comfortable, versatile, quiet and efficient car I thought it was when I bought it and it transpires that it's.........."just all marketing hype with no particular substance. Its way smaller than a decent estate, had no real off road ability and the manufacturers charge a premium for them. Due to the extra height they are not great on fuel. They are simply a fashion accessory like a Mini, Fiat 500 or several other cars of today."

I didn't realise that at the time of purchase so I implore you to continue doing your homework, as you are doing, and ask questions until you settle on what suits you best.

EDIT. You'll have seen, I'm sure, that the All Terrain Pack on the Tepee offers ASR+ Grip Control, Raised suspension,Mud ans Snow tyres in a sensible size (215/65/15 plus Under Engine Protection.

Edited by KB. on 06/02/2013 at 11:25

I thank you, thunderbird, for your response, the contents of which I note.

I suspect you hadn't considered that there might hve been just a hint of TIC / irony in my previous contribution.

Re. ownership of a Yeti / Hyundai i10. Had it crossed your mind that I might have two cars?

KB., Thunderbird: I've benefited enormously from your contributions. Thunderbird: I realise now that the Yeti is going to offer only a little more than any ordinary 2WD in terms of dealing with mud and bumps, so I need to ask myself whether this little bit extra justifies the added expense (which, being in the region of £2k, is not negligible). KB.: The extra ground clearance and perhaps reinforced underbody will be very welcome. Again, I need to consider the pros and cons carefully before I make up my mind. I do hope I'm not going to come across as rude if I were to ask you to end the exchange re. the qualities of the yeti as a cross-country vehicle. I think you both have a point and have made it clearly, so thanks for that.

KB.: I don't have much experience buying new cars, so no, your advice is not going to sound like teaching your granny to suck eggs, more like teaching your grandchild to suck eggs. I mean any advice will be very gratefully received. I'll definitely check the All Terrain Pack on the Tepee, it sounds like a good idea.

:-)

Search Youtube for the many clips of the previous version (and one or two of the very first incarnation)…which were highly regarded in the UK but even more so in much colder climes. There’s one clip which pairs one with a Land Rover Disco (or was it a Range Rover?) and it gave an excellent account of itself.

One of the problems with the present pair – the 4x4 and the 2x4 Trekking is they’re both expensive for such a small car.

They both come with the little Twin-air two cylinder jobbie as well as the familiar 1.3 Multijet diesel, which would give a more flexible and relaxed drive but costs even more.

No-one (I sincerely hope) is likely to dispute their off-road credentials, in much the same way as the Suzuki Jimny is famously capable offroad but less than luxurious on road (and lacks ESP so some might say is more likely to fall over in ‘Elk Test’ type situations, rather like the SJ series which went before it). The reviews do suggest a good on-road experience in the Pandas we speak of here, apparently.

I looked around the new Panda (but not the 4x4 or Trekking) and, compared to the Fiat 500 which was next to it did seem usefully more capacious and practical and did have an appeal.

In that price range others have compared it to the Dacia Duster which is now appearing in the flesh. You’ll know about the Duster, I’m sure. Very popular in Europe as I understand it and has a fan base there but has yet to win friends here. The left hand drive one I clambered over in my local Renault dealers was flawed (for me) on a number of fronts BUT the UK version may well be sorted and tidied up so might be worth a look.

Fiat dealers aren’t known for their….help me out with a word…..and the one I went in was staffed by a lady who, unfortunately knew little about (a) how to sell cars and (b) the cars she was selling. But yours might be great…you won’t know till you visit.

And, of course, it’s a Fiat and for some that in itself is enough to turn them away. Probably no worse than most in truth but we all know that you buy a Honda or a Toyota or similar if you want to statistically, and by common perception, minimize the likelihood of major problems in the short, and longer term.

Drive one (if you can find one) and let us know how you get on.

Edited by KB. on 08/02/2013 at 20:11

Thanks for reply. All that you say makes perfect sense and the Fiats would be fine in the mud…they come with suitable tyres too. HJ runs a Fiat 500 and hasn’t had any trouble with it but Fiat don’t do well in things like the JD Power survey…if you take any notice of that.

It’s a shame Honda and Toyota have gaps in their range…but nothing you and I can do except look elsewhere, as you’re doing. I’m not absolutely sure I could actually buy a Fiat with my own money having known owners pull their hair out over niggles and failures that shouldn’t be happening in the 21 st century. I’d also have to think long and hard about a new French car for the same reason, despite having had a couple in the past that were OK…I’ve become more and more cautious now and try to minimize likelihood of bother and hence wouldn’t rush to the French or Italians….but loads do and are fine.

Yes the WhatCar figures are more than realistic. Brokers to look at to get an idea of prices are Drive the Deal, CarFile, Broker4Cars, Autoebid, Broadspeed. All these are established and sound (or as sound as anyone is these days). You’ll have seen the comments about paying deposits and balances to the dealer recommended by the respective brokers. Stick to that as a rule. Google something like “car discount brokers” and compare what you see. Ring/email any number of dealers round the UK for any given make and look at the forums where they often quote dealers or brokers that members have used.

If looking at Skoda you’ll have found the forum I mentioned and seen the sponsored dealer there who offers good deals plus my recommendation of an excellent dealer in London where I bought mine at two grand off list (whereas my local dealer unfortunately offered peanuts).

When negotiating you want to have the LOWEST prices you can find to use as negotiating tools. The dealers are there to make money – you’re there to pay a sensible price for the vehicle you want and you either agree or you go elsewhere.

Yes, the Duster has a poor NCAP rating. Shame as you’d have thought Renault would have sorted that. The Yeti has an excellent rating, as you’ll have seen. My Yeti is an SE DSG (automatic) with metallic and a spare wheel as options, plus a couple of odd extra bits and pieces. I paid £15,758. I think that was fair and as we speak I’d get most of that back as it’s holding it’s money. So when you’re told that it’s overpriced and loses money then just be aware that that may not strictly be the case. There’s a facelift due at the end of the year which will affect used prices a bit though.

Ultimately you really must make up a shortlist and just drive them without worrying about haggling initially. You might not like some of the cars you drive and therefore you won’t have to consider them further.

Good luck with that.

KB.: this is fantastic and extremely helpful advice, I'll keep all this in mind over the next few weeks (and check out the brokers you suggest) as I'm trying to come to a decision. And, yes, I'm going to test drive my chosen models without worrying about haggling because, as you say, I may not even like some of these cars! Any tips on how to get the most from test driving?

skidpan: yes, I think you're right, I probably got carried away with the Panda. As you point out, other allotment holders have ordinary 2WD cars or vans. I'll still try to have a closer look/test drive, but given the price hike of the new Panda, it's going to work out quite expensive in the end. I'll check out the KIA Ceed SW, from what you say it sounds pretty cool!

KB.: I meant I may not even like some of the cars I've short-listed when I see them in the flesh and test drive them.

corax: what you say about family hatchbags not mixing with bags of manure is totally spot -on, so maybe back to the van/mpv idea...

Hi dieseldotty,

Thanks for sharing your experience with the yeti (and the other cars that you roadtested), it's extremely helpful. I've had a look at reviews of some of the other vehicles that you mention (KIA Sportage and CR-V) but rejected them for different reasons (KIA Sportage: I don't like the looks, too chunky; CR-V: way over my budget), so it's good to know somebody else's opinion of these cars.

I'm seriously tempted to go up to the 5spd diesel yeti, esp. if there are substantial savings to be had off the list price. I've never used a broker before, how was your experience with DrivetheDeal? Is there anything I need to be aware of when buying through a broker?

6-month delivery wait!!!!!! I don't think I can wait that long :-(((((

I've seen the colours in the brochure, and I agree, they all look good except for the silver ( I think it's the Steel Grey metallic) which I don't find as exciting as some of the other colours. I'd be more inclined to go for the Rosso Brunello or the Petrol Blue.The Bronze is also quite original. However, if I have to wait 6 months for delivery, I may have to reconsider... I need the car as soon as possible, you see. Maybe I should look for a used/nearly new Yeti...

It's my experience that it's not uncommon to have to go halfway across the country to pick up a brokered car from a dealer. With Skoda, when I bought, it was only dealers authorised to do corporate sales who could offer 11% discount on Yetis. All the local dealers wouldn't budge above 8%. With supply easing a bit now and a facelifted model due this year I guess there's more scope for bargaining today..

Just one more question if I may:

I was just about to pick up the phone and book a Yeti test drive when I read the following on the autotrader website:

"A test drive needn’t be five minutes ’round the block – ask to borrow a car for an evening or a weekend so you can get familiar with it, without the pressure of a salesperson in the passenger seat"

Do dealers actually allow potential buyers to road test cars on an evening or weekend basis?

Hi, thanks, that#s good to know. When you road tested your last car, was the dealer/sales rep in the car with you? The reason I'm asking is it will feel more relaxed if the dealer's not in...

We seem to have gone from a distinctly enthusistic line of enquiries from the OP....to....nothing for quite a while.

To be honest something told me I'd been wasting my time in giving comprehensive answere to the, numerous, questions asked by the OP and, for some strange reason, I still think the same thing.

Hi KB,

Sorry to hear you feel you've wasted your time by sharing your advice in response to my post. For my part, I feel I've benefited a lot from the advice I've received here, so thanks very much to everyone who's posted.

Dieseldogg: I'm going to stick with FWD because I don't think I'd have occasion to make serious use of the car's 4W capabilities were I to buy one, and in addition they cost more and have higher MPG. Good ground clearance and appropriate tyres are fine for me right now, so why pay more?