In response to the above enquiry, I have done 250 mile London to West Country trips in it and have nothing detrimental to report. At 70 mph the rpm is below 2500 and so quite relaxed with plenty in reserve. See the forum I suggested to gain further user experience including that of owners who regularly take the vehicle off-road - albeit in 4x4 form. This includes users who are members of officially recognized 4x4 Response Groups.
To say that it has no advantage in your allotment over any other 2WD is simply wrong and suggests thunderbird hasn't done his homework before pronouncing on the vehicle. It has very much more ground clearance than a conventional saloon/hatchback and is available with a manufacturer installed off-road kit which provides even more heavy duty protection for the underbody and brake lines. Additionally the suspension is designed for use on light off road tracks (clearly it's not a Defender and isn't designed to be so). It can also be fitted with manufacturers 16 inch steel wheels and winter tyres which would provide sub 7 degree performance equal to any 4x4 soft roader with conventional tyres.
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To say that it has no advantage in your allotment over any other 2WD is simply wrong and suggests thunderbird hasn't done his homework before pronouncing on the vehicle. It has very much more ground clearance than a conventional saloon/hatchback and is available with a manufacturer installed off-road kit which provides even more heavy duty protection for the underbody and brake lines. Additionally the suspension is designed for use on light off road tracks (clearly it's not a Defender and isn't designed to be so). It can also be fitted with manufacturers 16 inch steel wheels and winter tyres which would provide sub 7 degree performance equal to any 4x4 soft roader with conventional tyres.
Winter tyres are designed to work in sub 7 degrees on tarmac roads covered with snow, for driving on muddy tracks you need tyres designed for that purpose.
Even with the "manufacturer installed off-road kit" it will be little better than a Berlingo or similar.
If you want true off road capabilty a 2WD car with a few bolts bits on is a poor substitute for the right tool for the job.
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My advice to the OP, philonenko, is to listen to thunderbird's guidance as he clearly knows better than I do. After all, what do I know?
And you're wrong again re. the tyres. Winter tyres also offer improved performance in wet weather below 7 degress as well as ice and snow conditions.
And according to the OP's definitions he doesn't want full off road performance does he?
Edited by KB. on 04/02/2013 at 20:24
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And you're wrong again re. the tyres. Winter tyres also offer improved performance in wet weather below 7 degress as well as ice and snow conditions.
Where did I say that winter tyres did not offer better wet weather perfornace below 7 degrees. Some do and some don't especially the cheap Chinese ditch finders.
My original post on the matter was to make the OP aware that not all Yeti's were 4WD especially when he hjad commented that it would be better down the muddy track to his allotment.
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Actually winter tyres do make a lot of difference on muddy farm tracks as I found last week was able to visit a friends house and I drove to the door with winter tyres whereas the last time I went was wet weather in summer and the car on summer tyres would not make 10metres.
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No, thunderbird, your original post quite clearly indicated...
"The standard Yeti is 2WD and will be no better on the allotment than any other 2WD car".......
Which, as I've tried to say, is simply incorrect for the reasons noted..the 2WD Yeti (as well as the 4x4 Yeti) offers increased ground clearance, the much increased suspension travel and clearance within the wheel-arch. The availabilty of original equipment steel wheels and winter tyres as discussed. Furthermore the Yeti differs from other standard saloons and hatchbacks insofar as there is a substantial bonnet in front of the driver which is clearly visible to the driver - offering great visibilty to the front corners of the vehicle as well as excellent safety performance results (see the NCAP figures)...and the OP specifically mentioned safety.
I will ask you if you've examined the underbody kit to check it's robustness? Please reply to this point.
If I get something wrong (and I often do) I'll put my hands up say so.....I'm far from perfect and no more immune to gaffs than anyone else. On this occasion I am simply saying that the Yeti isn't as you describe it to be and hence you're wrong. As, indeed, you was when you proclaimed all small automatic cars to be rubbish....and was subsequently shown to be wrong there too. (Automatic vs Manual 22nd Jan).
I can't imagine you'll agree so we must agree to differ.
Regards.
Edited by KB. on 05/02/2013 at 11:30
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The Yeti is not an off road car. It offers "butch" styling and a bit of extra ground clearance but no more off road ability than any other 2WD car.
The 4WD version will offer more off road ability but as with all cars of this type even with 4WD they are not off road cars. This is not a critisism its a fact. They are simply conventional 2WD with a few bits added to cater for the market where the manufacturers have convince a sector of the public that they simply cannot manage without 4WD especially on the school run.
The above statement applies to the Kia Sportage, Nissan Qasqkai, Hyundai, ix35, VW Tiguan, etc.etc. Even the Land Rover Freelander is not a real off roader but I would put money on it getting further off road than any of the above before stopping (provided you get the 4WD version).
All the 2WD versions will achieve with their added ground clearance and "underbody protection" will be perhaps get a little further off road than a conventional car before getting stuck.
As for winter tyres working better off road than a normal tyre this may be a fact but they are not designed for it. BUT what happens in a typical summer when you go to the allotment on your summer tyres and the lane is just a muddy as it is in winter.
We have a chap at work whose wife just had to have a 4WD to take the kids to school, its 1/2 a mile away. When it snows they don't use the 4WD car since it may become involved in an accident.
And I still say all small auto's are a waste of space. A few peoples opinion on a forum does not make me incorrect. Big ones are fine if you have a very fat wallet. Whilst I have 2 legs and 2 arms I will only drive manuals. Having said that dads boss only had one arm and only ever drove a manual.
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At various launches for the Yeti on rough ground Skoda still used some 2wd cars to showcase both the 1.2TSi engine and the fact it was tougher and more capable than a standard type car, and it is. Try taking a Focus or a Golf up a bad farm track and the damage caused will make a Yeti with underbody protection etc seem like a tank. Of course they arent 'proper' 4x4s but that isnt what is required here and anybody who derives enjoyment from driving a Defender or similar on normal roads is a masochist! The winter tyre debate will always rage on and while they clearly work, the purchase of a vehicle to later consider fitting them too has to come first.
The VW Caddy with seats however is amazingly car like and refined, not van like at all really and is a nice practical family hauler.
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Hello all and thank you very much for your contributions so far.
Ground clearance: The exchange between KB and thunderbird has made me think hard about the real advantages of the yeti over the competition. I'm aware that the 1.2 TSi petrol model I'm interested in is 2WD, not 4WD, and as a result off-road capabilities are not significantly better than those of any other 2WD such as the Berlingo. That said, the extra ground clearance could be a big help when dealing with muddy tracks at the allotment site. I was driving a borrowed Nissan Micra on a European country road last summer when suddenly I felt the car almost going up on the air! My partner looked back to see a massive pothole on the road which, as the road was slightly downhill, was invisible to the unsuspecting driver. It was a good thing the underbody was not scraped! This is the kind of problem I was hoping to avoid with the yeti.
I've therefore looked at the different measurements of the Berlingo and the yeti to see how much extra ground clearance the yeti offers. Unfortunately, I can't seem able to find the relevant figures on the 'dimensions' page on the Citroen and Skoda website. They're probably there, in plain view, but for some silly reason I can't locate them. Here are the relevant pages:
www.skoda.co.uk/GBR/newcars/yeti/dimensions/Pages/...x
www.citroen.co.uk/home/#/new-cars/car-range/citroe.../
A comparison of the two cars on the whatcar website shows clearly that the yeti has more clearance than the berlingo as the latter has a low boot sill (for easy loading I guess).
Edited by philonenko on 05/02/2013 at 13:59
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countryroads: I hadn't realised the caddy can be fitted with windows, I thought it was only the Caddy Maxi and the Maxi Kombi that could. I'll have to read the brochure more carefully.
Re. what you say about the yeti, would you happen to know where I can find out more about the construction of the underbody?
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To be honest, thunderbird, I'd be happy enough to continue this, good natured, exchange of views (note the word 'views' bcause there's a bit of a shortage of 'facts' coming from your direction)...however I'm conscious of hogging the thread and don't especially wish to cause the mod/s to have to intervene. So, if it's OK, I'll just respond briefly.
I'm sorry, thunderbird, I didn't see your response when I asked if you'd personally examined the underbody kit to determine it's structural integrity and usefulness. I did ask for a reply did I not? I'm going to assume you haven't but still await a reply.
Can I also ask if you've owned or driven one? Or actually spent time checking specs and figures or checked online with, specific user/owner forums to see what ACTUAL owners achieve with their vehicles? Or, indeed studied reviews of experienced journalists/enthusiasts who might just know a little more about this than you, perhaps? Please reply either way. I'll assume that all the off-road reviews and clips on Youtube of people taking their Yeti's through quite serious off road terrain are fakes and didn't actually take place, shall I? Again...please reply.
Have you looked back to the OP's actual requirements? He's not asked for full off road capability. He's asked for......well pop back yourself to his list and see for yourself and reassess whether what you're saying is sound, fact based, advice - or just loose generalisation based on... not a lot and showing a shortage of "actual" experience in the topic on which the OP requests information and USER /OWNER based reviews.
Regards.
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Basically the argument is a total waste of time. The OP asked for advice and I pointed out to him that Skoda Yeti would be no better than any other 2WD drive car for getting to his allotment. If he wants some 4WD capability get the 4WD model. None of us except for the OP knows what the track is like.
If you think a bit of extra ground clearance and a few bits of underbody protection turn a city car into a cross country vehicle it finally proves that the marketing people have brainwashed the public.
We looked at the Yeti in the showroom when we test drove an Octavia estate. the Yeti was far too small, no bigger than any other small hatch.
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Go for the Berlingo but check the front suspension especially shock absorber and shock absorber cups.
Well known problem, you will hear knocking over bumps.
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Go for the Berlingo
If you want a tough but slightly basic load carrier you will do no better. The luggage space in the Berlingo is huge compared to the oposition, the Yeti for example is only a small hatch with added style.
Drive them, measure them and make your own decision. It's what I do when I buy a car, never listen to salesmen and the press.
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daveyK-UK: thanks for the tip-off. Would I need to check they're properly aligned or is it something I'll just have to live with if I go for the berlingo?
skidpan: yes, I'm slowly realising how big the Berlingo is compared to the yeti. A quick look at the comparison tables shows that it's longer, slightly wider and taller than the yeti, not to mention the fact that it has nearly double the amount of boot space! This car is huge! The yeti has more style and ground clearance (and reinforced underbody, perhaps?) but I'm wondering whether these two factors are enough to justify the added expense. Not to mention that from the two models I'm comparing (Berlingo 1.6 HDI 90 diesel vs. Skoda 1.2. TSI petrol) the Berlingo has the more powerful engine. Decisions, decisions, decisions...
Edited by philonenko on 05/02/2013 at 14:10
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skidpan: yes, I'm slowly realising how big the Berlingo is compared to the yeti. A quick look at the comparison tables shows that it's longer, slightly wider and taller than the yeti, not to mention the fact that it has nearly double the amount of boot space! This car is huge!
It is a small van with seats after all. I'm an electrician so have 'racked out' my Multispace to give me a budget crew-cab.
i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss275/chronyx/Berlingo...g
s583.beta.photobucket.com/user/chronyx/media/Berli...l
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Philonenko. Thanks for coming back with your, clearly well considered, thoughts. Sometimes an enquiry is raised and responded to and the OP is never heard from again.
It sounds very much as though the amount of research you’re doing will pay dividends.
I’m pleased that the discourse between myself and a fellow contributor has, if nothing else, highlighted the ground clearance issue for you. To this end there is, in the drivers manual, specific information contained, in it’s own section, regarding off road driving, embankment angles and slope angles and ground clearance / ramp angles. Despite the fact that, according to thunderbird, this is a “CITY “ car, the information is a little too extensive to reproduce here….but a dealer would readily allow you to look through the manual to see for yourself. I will, of course, offer any specific bits that I can. For example the clearance between my wheel-arch and the tyre is 140mm and the distance between the ground and the lowest part of my sill is 230mm. This figure also equates to the official wading depth of the car as specified in the manual.
Following thunderbird’s description of the Yeti as a ‘City’ car, I’ve come to the conclusion that his overall grasp and general level of knowledge of the classification of cars in general is negligible. I have, for my sins, a Hyundai i10...THAT is a city car. The Yeti is 4230 mm long....that is NOT a city car. And so I have nothing further to exchange on this topic with him. But thank you for your time, thunderbird.
Edited by KB. on 05/02/2013 at 14:43
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Following thunderbird’s description of the Yeti as a ‘City’ car, I’ve come to the conclusion that his overall grasp and general level of knowledge of the classification of cars in general is negligible.
Having been driving for almost 40 years I can confirm I definitely have an excellent grasp of cars and what classes they fall into. I have owned cars from 2 seater sports through superminis, hot hatch, small people carrier, large hatch/family car and estate. Never owned a city car, don't live in a city. Don't go off road thus have never owned a 4 x 4.
KB please read my posts and show me where I called the Yeti a "city car", I have called it a small hatch which is what it is. I agree that the i10 is a city car.
What no one on here has mentioned is suspension travel, to be a decent offroader this is essential, no point in having extra ground clearance without it. Does the Yeti have better than is norm for its class, I doubt it.
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The Berlingo's identical twin is the Pug Partner. Not sure about the current version but the 03 to 08 range included a 'faux 4*4' branded Escapade with and extra inch or two of ground clearance.
My guess is that the standard version will be OK clearance wise for the OP's allotment. Most users will not have anything more than ordinary saloon and Council will design accordingly. Mud may be an issue in winter though.
Mrs B's uncle lives in a very remote place in mid wales - where he hosts an annual family gathering for 40 or so. Last mile is on a farm track which 'lingo and rest of family fleet, even cousin's Jag, handle it OK at walking pace.
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Thunderbird, have you heard the expression…”When you’re in a hole, stop digging”
I am pleased to show below where you call the Yeti a ‘city car’. In the same way as I am equally pleased to show below where I mention increased ‘suspension travel’. Both of which you assure us were not mentioned.
“………If you think a bit of extra ground clearance and a few bits of underbody protection turn a city car into a cross country vehicle it finally proves……………”
……….“Which, as I've tried to say, is simply incorrect for the reasons noted..the 2WD Yeti (as well as the 4x4 Yeti) offers increased ground clearance, the much increased suspension travel and clearance within the wheel-arch.”
I still await the replies to the points I raised which you choose to conveniently ignore; Primarily regarding how much personal experience you’ve gained on this type of vehicle. However, you have said in the latest post that you’ve not had one and, presumably, although you repeatedly failed to confirm when asked, have not checked the specs, or driven one or had first hand experience of one.
OK, I really think we’ve done this to death now. Can we agree to disagree and carry on regardless? I think we should but if you think I’m disillusioned and have got all my facts wrong I suppose you’d better come back and say so. I suspect you might :-)
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In the post you mention to I was not refering to the Yeti as a city car, I was using the generic term City car to say that it takes more than a bit of extra ground clearance to turn any car into an off roader. But I don't expect you to accept that.
When I have mentioned the Yeti specifically I have referred to it as a small hatch.
One of these days when I am bored enough I will visit a Skoda dealer and ask them to demonstrate the off road capabilities of a 2WD Yeti to me on a suitable piece of bumpy, muddy ground. I am confident that they would suggest I bought the 4WD version for such use or tell me to go to a Land Rover dealer rather than risking their car being drive over land its not designed for.
With regards to your question about have I owned one etc, if you had bothered to read my previous messages you would have seen that we looked at it but found it way too small even compared to the Octavia we were considering. Small boot, no spare, poor seat folding arrangement, need I go on. Not exacly a workhorse.
My views may be different to yours but if I want a car suitable to go off road I would buy one built for the job. This class of car to me is just all marketing hype with no particular substance. Its way smaller than a decent estate, had no real off road ability and the manufacturers charge a premium for them. Due to the extra height they are not great on fuel.
They are simply a fashion accessory like a Mini, Fiat 500 or several other cars of today.
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Ah, so...when is a city car NOT a city car? When thunderbird calls it a city car....but doesn't really mean it :-)
And you forgot to mention the increased suspension travel this time....
So, overall, taking everything into account, would you say you'll be buying one soon? I think you're leaning that way.... :-)
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So, overall, taking everything into account, would you say you'll be buying one soon?
What do you think. Will stick with the Ceed SW, does what it says on the tin, does not pretend to be something its not.
And as much as I hate the 2WD car pretending to be a 4WD at least the Sportage has a big boot, a spare whee, good interior spacel as well as the huge ground clearance that you yearn for. Way better than a Yeti for the same money.
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Is that a 'no' then?
:-)
What a pity this is only a virtual cyber existence. I'm sure we'd get on like a house on fire in the real world.
:-)
OK, maybe not then.
:-)
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There have been a number of messages on the topic, and I'd now like to recap.
The GOLF has been ruled out as it's a family hatchback, not a car to lug spades and wooden planks around, and also it is over my budget. In addition, I find its conservative looks rather unappealing. On the other hand, VW has an excellent reputation for quality and reliability and my partner insists I test drive one if we go to test drive the caddy.
Citroen Berlingo
Pros: reliable at least up to the 100k miles mark (at which point it's probably a good idea to sell on...). Has massive boot space, will survive a bit of mud but nothing too tenuous; versatile enough to be used both for travelling around the country and for lugging stuff around, so seems to suit my needs fairly well. Btw, msstw, nice pics, you've got a great mod there.
Cons: suspension problematic, ground clearance average (for a city car, I guess), so it may struggle a bit with the mud at the allotment in winter.
Skoda Yeti
Pros: attractive looks; though not a genuine off-roader, it has better ground clearance and suspension travel than the Berlingo, therefore will manage the allotment and any other muddy surface I may decide to take it to (but not real off-road).
Cons: more expensive than the Berlingo and offers less boot space. For an extra £2k I'll still get a less powerful engine (I'm comparing the Berlingo 1.6 HDI 90 diesel to Skoda 1.2. TSI petrol).
Areas I need to research further: tyres. It is agreed, I think, that winter tyres will make some difference to handling dirty tracks in winter conditions. I'll have to find out what kind of tyres I'm getting with the models I'm keen on and whether it makes sense to get the winter tyres as an extra. I may come back to this if I need more information (and hopefully the helpful people on the forum will provide opinions and advice).
A new candidate has arrived on the scene. the Peugeot Tepee. Bromptonaut, thanks for alerting me to this poissibility. I was aware that the Partner was almost identical to the Berlingo, however a quick search reveals that the Tepee also includes a model that offers 'outdoor' use. I'm going to investigate further and report back.
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Philonenko, I see that the Tepee Outdoor ranges from £13,017 for the 90 PS with no options (finished price after discount and delivered to you) - and goes up from there. If you had the 115PS version with metallic paint and the All Terrain Pack, (which is probably of interest to you), and if, say, you had the folding mirrors and rear parking sensor option then you pay £14,704 ,delivered to you
(Drive the Deal prices)
Haven't looked at the Berlingo in detail but seem to be about two and a half grand off list at the same place.
Edited by KB. on 05/02/2013 at 21:54
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The 1.2 TSI Yeti - although the cubic capacity is smaller than the Berlingo's - is actually more powerful with 105 bhp. However the Berlingo and Tepee are cheaper and you'd have to get a secondhand Yeti within your budget.
You need to get a good long test drive of the cars on your shortlist. I haven't driven a Berlingo or a Tepee (which I would guess will feel quite similar) but they are both practical utility van-based vehicles (and by all accounts very good at what they do) whereas the Yeti is more plush and very good to drive. It depends on what your priorities are.
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KB.: yes, it appears that the Teepe is more expensive than the Berlingo and I'm not sure how much extra it offers. The 'Outdoors' model is advertised as having better suspension travel, but it doesn't have more ground clearance, at least if I'm reading the measurements right.
Avant: thanks for your post, so the 1.2. TSI petro engine on the yeti has more power than the the 1.6 HDI 90 diesel on the Berlingo, I hadn't realised that. I'd have to research engines a bit further reading up on the lingo (e.g. torque, etc).
I plan to test drive the Berlingo and the Yeti some time next week. How do you, guys, do the deals? Do you decide on a car/model first and try to close the deal on the same day that you test drive or do you test drive first and go back for the deal when you've made up your mind?
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"Do you decide on a car/model first and try to close the deal on the same day that you test drive or do you test drive first and go back for the deal when you've made up your mind?"
Obviously we don't know how much experience you've had buying new cars so it's possible that advice might sound like teaching your granny to suck eggs. But personally I do as much research online as I can....it's far better to know as much about the product as the salesman...and that's often not difficult. Having become familiar with the product I then find out how much it's available for online via brokers. I check vehicle specific forums to see what actual owners/users have to say. I visit a variety of dealers to see, touch, smell, the car...and at some stage, drive the car. But never place an order first time round. Having decided on a specific vehicle I balance the advantage of buying locally and establishing a relationship - versus, perhaps, saving two thousand pounds on the car buy buying at a broker or a distant dealer who offered a better deal....and then taking it locally for servicing and warranty work. My decision will be coloured by the make of the car and the perceived customer service or previous personal experience of the manufacturer and or dealer network.
To be honest no-one can give a lifetime's worth of car buying experience in a few lines but you're going the right way about it , it would seem to me.
Having said all that, it has become apparent to me in the last day or two that my own particular car isn't the remarkably nimble and safe, comfortable, versatile, quiet and efficient car I thought it was when I bought it and it transpires that it's.........."just all marketing hype with no particular substance. Its way smaller than a decent estate, had no real off road ability and the manufacturers charge a premium for them. Due to the extra height they are not great on fuel. They are simply a fashion accessory like a Mini, Fiat 500 or several other cars of today."
I didn't realise that at the time of purchase so I implore you to continue doing your homework, as you are doing, and ask questions until you settle on what suits you best.
EDIT. You'll have seen, I'm sure, that the All Terrain Pack on the Tepee offers ASR+ Grip Control, Raised suspension,Mud ans Snow tyres in a sensible size (215/65/15 plus Under Engine Protection.
Edited by KB. on 06/02/2013 at 11:25
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Having said all that, it has become apparent to me in the last day or two that my own particular car isn't the remarkably nimble and safe, comfortable, versatile, quiet and efficient car I thought it was when I bought it and it transpires that it's.........."just all marketing hype with no particular substance. Its way smaller than a decent estate, had no real off road ability and the manufacturers charge a premium for them. Due to the extra height they are not great on fuel. They are simply a fashion accessory like a Mini, Fiat 500 or several other cars of today."
When the OP asked his question and pointed out he wanted to use the car on muddy bumpy tracks I pointed out to him that the Yeti is not a 4WD car as standard and is certainly not a car that is really suitable for using off road regularly.
Having looked at one I know for certain that they do not have the biggest boot in the class, but there again they are not the biggest car externally either. The OP wanted space.
If you are happy with your Yeti I am happy for you (bit confused here, thought you had an i10).
But when a person asks a question I feel it is my right on an open forum to make them aware that the car being recomended to them is perhaps not really suitable in my opinion.
There are no doubt many people are happy with their Yeti's but from the OP's original post I do not think its the car for his purposes.
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I thank you, thunderbird, for your response, the contents of which I note.
I suspect you hadn't considered that there might hve been just a hint of TIC / irony in my previous contribution.
Re. ownership of a Yeti / Hyundai i10. Had it crossed your mind that I might have two cars?
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KB., Thunderbird: I've benefited enormously from your contributions. Thunderbird: I realise now that the Yeti is going to offer only a little more than any ordinary 2WD in terms of dealing with mud and bumps, so I need to ask myself whether this little bit extra justifies the added expense (which, being in the region of £2k, is not negligible). KB.: The extra ground clearance and perhaps reinforced underbody will be very welcome. Again, I need to consider the pros and cons carefully before I make up my mind. I do hope I'm not going to come across as rude if I were to ask you to end the exchange re. the qualities of the yeti as a cross-country vehicle. I think you both have a point and have made it clearly, so thanks for that.
KB.: I don't have much experience buying new cars, so no, your advice is not going to sound like teaching your granny to suck eggs, more like teaching your grandchild to suck eggs. I mean any advice will be very gratefully received. I'll definitely check the All Terrain Pack on the Tepee, it sounds like a good idea.
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KB., Thunderbird: I've benefited enormously from your contributions. Thunderbird: I realise now that the Yeti is going to offer only a little more than any ordinary 2WD in terms of dealing with mud and bumps, so I need to ask myself whether this little bit extra justifies the added expense (which, being in the region of £2k, is not negligible). KB.: The extra ground clearance and perhaps reinforced underbody will be very welcome. Again, I need to consider the pros and cons carefully before I make up my mind. I do hope I'm not going to come across as rude if I were to ask you to end the exchange re. the qualities of the yeti as a cross-country vehicle. I think you both have a point and have made it clearly, so thanks for that.
KB.: I don't have much experience buying new cars, so no, your advice is not going to sound like teaching your granny to suck eggs, more like teaching your grandchild to suck eggs. I mean any advice will be very gratefully received. I'll definitely check the All Terrain Pack on the Tepee, it sounds like a good idea.
:-)
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Any thoughts on the Fiat Panda 4x4 / Trekking, anyone?
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Search Youtube for the many clips of the previous version (and one or two of the very first incarnation)…which were highly regarded in the UK but even more so in much colder climes. There’s one clip which pairs one with a Land Rover Disco (or was it a Range Rover?) and it gave an excellent account of itself.
One of the problems with the present pair – the 4x4 and the 2x4 Trekking is they’re both expensive for such a small car.
They both come with the little Twin-air two cylinder jobbie as well as the familiar 1.3 Multijet diesel, which would give a more flexible and relaxed drive but costs even more.
No-one (I sincerely hope) is likely to dispute their off-road credentials, in much the same way as the Suzuki Jimny is famously capable offroad but less than luxurious on road (and lacks ESP so some might say is more likely to fall over in ‘Elk Test’ type situations, rather like the SJ series which went before it). The reviews do suggest a good on-road experience in the Pandas we speak of here, apparently.
I looked around the new Panda (but not the 4x4 or Trekking) and, compared to the Fiat 500 which was next to it did seem usefully more capacious and practical and did have an appeal.
In that price range others have compared it to the Dacia Duster which is now appearing in the flesh. You’ll know about the Duster, I’m sure. Very popular in Europe as I understand it and has a fan base there but has yet to win friends here. The left hand drive one I clambered over in my local Renault dealers was flawed (for me) on a number of fronts BUT the UK version may well be sorted and tidied up so might be worth a look.
Fiat dealers aren’t known for their….help me out with a word…..and the one I went in was staffed by a lady who, unfortunately knew little about (a) how to sell cars and (b) the cars she was selling. But yours might be great…you won’t know till you visit.
And, of course, it’s a Fiat and for some that in itself is enough to turn them away. Probably no worse than most in truth but we all know that you buy a Honda or a Toyota or similar if you want to statistically, and by common perception, minimize the likelihood of major problems in the short, and longer term.
Drive one (if you can find one) and let us know how you get on.
Edited by KB. on 08/02/2013 at 20:11
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That's very helpful, KB., thanks.
I've read a review of the Dacia Duster (which sounds 'shockingly affordable' indeed, as the marketing has it) but was concerned when I read that on the safety front it leaves much to be desired...so I decided to give it a pass.
Re. price of the Panda, I suppose I'll have to see one 'in the flesh', so to speak, to appreciate the size differential compared to the Yeti or the Berlingo. That said, both models (especially the Trekking) seem well suited to what I need: relaxed driving in the motorway, good economy, and ability to cope with mud and dirty tracks without breaking the bank.
The reason why I didn't consider one initally was, well, you guessed it, the name 'Fiat'! I'd much rather go for a Toyota (on account of their renown for reliability) but the only Toyota that seems to fit the bill is the RAV4 which I'd love to own but cannot afford, unfortunately.
The other thing is, as you say, the dealers... Fiat's website is not the best-designed or user-friendly in the world, and I find it's not as easy to get info on the two Pandas as it might be. I'm also wondering about haggling and the possibility of achieving a better price. The whatcar website has 'target prices' that are usually a couple of grant lower than the official prices. Are these 'target' prices achievable, do you think? Do buyers here use them as a guide when negotiating a purchase?
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Thanks for reply. All that you say makes perfect sense and the Fiats would be fine in the mud…they come with suitable tyres too. HJ runs a Fiat 500 and hasn’t had any trouble with it but Fiat don’t do well in things like the JD Power survey…if you take any notice of that.
It’s a shame Honda and Toyota have gaps in their range…but nothing you and I can do except look elsewhere, as you’re doing. I’m not absolutely sure I could actually buy a Fiat with my own money having known owners pull their hair out over niggles and failures that shouldn’t be happening in the 21 st century. I’d also have to think long and hard about a new French car for the same reason, despite having had a couple in the past that were OK…I’ve become more and more cautious now and try to minimize likelihood of bother and hence wouldn’t rush to the French or Italians….but loads do and are fine.
Yes the WhatCar figures are more than realistic. Brokers to look at to get an idea of prices are Drive the Deal, CarFile, Broker4Cars, Autoebid, Broadspeed. All these are established and sound (or as sound as anyone is these days). You’ll have seen the comments about paying deposits and balances to the dealer recommended by the respective brokers. Stick to that as a rule. Google something like “car discount brokers” and compare what you see. Ring/email any number of dealers round the UK for any given make and look at the forums where they often quote dealers or brokers that members have used.
If looking at Skoda you’ll have found the forum I mentioned and seen the sponsored dealer there who offers good deals plus my recommendation of an excellent dealer in London where I bought mine at two grand off list (whereas my local dealer unfortunately offered peanuts).
When negotiating you want to have the LOWEST prices you can find to use as negotiating tools. The dealers are there to make money – you’re there to pay a sensible price for the vehicle you want and you either agree or you go elsewhere.
Yes, the Duster has a poor NCAP rating. Shame as you’d have thought Renault would have sorted that. The Yeti has an excellent rating, as you’ll have seen. My Yeti is an SE DSG (automatic) with metallic and a spare wheel as options, plus a couple of odd extra bits and pieces. I paid £15,758. I think that was fair and as we speak I’d get most of that back as it’s holding it’s money. So when you’re told that it’s overpriced and loses money then just be aware that that may not strictly be the case. There’s a facelift due at the end of the year which will affect used prices a bit though.
Ultimately you really must make up a shortlist and just drive them without worrying about haggling initially. You might not like some of the cars you drive and therefore you won’t have to consider them further.
Good luck with that.
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philenko
You appear confused. Originally wou wanted a large car to use at the allotment, now you are looking at a Panda which at best is a small car. OK, it has 4WD but do you really need that for an occational trip to the allotment. What type of cars do the other allotment users have, do they have 4 x 4's or ordinary 2WD cars, if they manage with 2WD you can.
Before you make an expensive mistake think very carefully.
We have a Kia Ceed SW, its got a huge load area and has coped brilliantly in the recent snow on the all season tyres fitted, pretty good ground cleance as well, way better than our old Focus for example, Mrs has driven out of their car park with no wheel spin when others have been stuck. Your budget should get you a nearly new one. No dmf to worry about either. 57 mpg on holiday trips are another benefit.
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KB.: this is fantastic and extremely helpful advice, I'll keep all this in mind over the next few weeks (and check out the brokers you suggest) as I'm trying to come to a decision. And, yes, I'm going to test drive my chosen models without worrying about haggling because, as you say, I may not even like some of these cars! Any tips on how to get the most from test driving?
skidpan: yes, I think you're right, I probably got carried away with the Panda. As you point out, other allotment holders have ordinary 2WD cars or vans. I'll still try to have a closer look/test drive, but given the price hike of the new Panda, it's going to work out quite expensive in the end. I'll check out the KIA Ceed SW, from what you say it sounds pretty cool!
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......."I may not even like some of these cars! Any tips on how to get the most from test driving?".........
Have you not bought a car before, philonenko? You've said that you might not even like some of theses cars. I think you should take a step back and listen to skidpan's advice, then when you've formed a constructive and practical shortlist and read about them on HJ's review section here and elsewhere, then go to the showrooms to see them in the flesh and when you think you've narrowed it down then come back and seek fellow forum members opinions about test drives. No-one can make your mind up or buy the car for you....
It would help if you outlined your past motoring experience, your circumstances, where you live and re-think what you actually want...and define the budget more precisely in order to narrow down your choice.
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I have an allotment. My Avensis suits me fine with it's massive hatchback arrangement, but I sometimes wish I had more of a van type vehicle that I wouldn't be bothered about getting muddy - bags of manure and a family saloon don't mix.
Most other members drive mid size estates or MPV's. Old shape Astra's, Vauxhall Meriva's e.t.c. One guy has an immaculate Jag X type and a very small Hayter mower that he manages to fit into the boot, although needless to say it's not used for much else!
A couple of people have a Ford Transit Connect and a Renault Kangoo but they are tradesmen for who the allotment is a sideline.
To be honest, most of the time you could get away with a hatchback and a couple of roofbars. Anything really big like shed panels can normally just be delivered to the allotment site.
Edited by corax on 09/02/2013 at 11:11
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KB.: I meant I may not even like some of the cars I've short-listed when I see them in the flesh and test drive them.
corax: what you say about family hatchbags not mixing with bags of manure is totally spot -on, so maybe back to the van/mpv idea...
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Looking to replace a RAV4 a couple of years ago I roadtested a number of SUV's viz:, a Kuga 2 163bhp diesel, a CRV diesel, an X1 diesel, an X5 diesel, a Sportage 2 litre diesel and three versions of the Yeti, 1.2 TSI, 2wd 5spd diesel and 6 spd 140ps diesel.
After every test I was more drawn to the Yeti than ever. For sheer driving fun it beat all the others hands down.Firmish ride with little rool, good driving position, positive tactile switchgear (didn't like the Sportage's at all). spacious rear legroom. If I was just tinkering around town doing short journeys the the 1.2 TSi would have been fine but on motorways at 80mph it's noisy and consumption is heavy (32mpg) The 5spd Yeti was fine in all respects except the motorway where it really needed the 6th gear though consumption was good. I measured town/country/motorway at 41/53/47 mpg in a good two hour run out. Eventually I went for 6spd 4wd 140ps version that had recorded consumption of 38/47/46 becuase it was quieter on the Mway and I preferred the Haldex 4wd. I also bought a spare wheel though this limited the boot space. Don't worry about the cross over with the farm life, there are pretty good rubber liners available for the boot if they're needed.
I've carried all sorts of loads in mine from a bath on the roof to really heavy two motor reclining armchairs and the car has been great. Bought through DrivetheDeal and saved around £2600 on list, about £800 more than I could get out of the local dealership at a time when they were in short supply.
Would have liked an X5 but couldn't stomach 17mpg around town! Sportage too bling, steering far too light, rear side vision poor and poor deal offered. CRV very nice but so limited in options. Kuga OK but awful clutch pedal position height. Have driven the new Kuga in the States. Very comfortable and accomplished car that hopefully won't have the US wheezy emission controls that which limit performance when it gets here.
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Hi dieseldotty,
Thanks for sharing your experience with the yeti (and the other cars that you roadtested), it's extremely helpful. I've had a look at reviews of some of the other vehicles that you mention (KIA Sportage and CR-V) but rejected them for different reasons (KIA Sportage: I don't like the looks, too chunky; CR-V: way over my budget), so it's good to know somebody else's opinion of these cars.
I'm seriously tempted to go up to the 5spd diesel yeti, esp. if there are substantial savings to be had off the list price. I've never used a broker before, how was your experience with DrivetheDeal? Is there anything I need to be aware of when buying through a broker?
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Fronm what I've read, I think Drivethedeal has a good reputation. They source cars fron UK dealers rather than imports. Unless they've changed recently, I believe they don't do part-exchange.
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Have used DtD a couple of times with no problems as has my daughter. No risk involved because all monies go betweeen you and the dealer, not the broker.
DtD used a Skoda dealer in Middlesex when I bought via them. It was by far the best price I could get and Skoda held the price to dealer when the VAT rate went up during the 6 month delivery wait.
IMHO Skoda have the best range of colours from which to choose and I think they all look good on a Yeti which makes choice quite difficult.
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6-month delivery wait!!!!!! I don't think I can wait that long :-(((((
I've seen the colours in the brochure, and I agree, they all look good except for the silver ( I think it's the Steel Grey metallic) which I don't find as exciting as some of the other colours. I'd be more inclined to go for the Rosso Brunello or the Petrol Blue.The Bronze is also quite original. However, if I have to wait 6 months for delivery, I may have to reconsider... I need the car as soon as possible, you see. Maybe I should look for a used/nearly new Yeti...
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Did you look at the Yeti specific section of Briskoda as I would have suggested earlier, philonenka? You can source Yetis without waiting six months and that particular forum is the place to get in depth info. due to the sheer number of actual uses there, including some pretty clued up fellas who take their motoring seriously.
Dieseldotty...was that Marlborough Skoda in Isleworth that you used? It's where mine came from and it was as good for me as you found it yourself albeit that I didn't actually buy through DtD and went direct. They aren't the nominated DtD dealer now and not sure who is. I did ask elsewhere and was told it was up't'north but don't know where. I'd still go to them though and got to know and trust one of the salesmen there and would feel very confident there...and they'd take P/X's of course.
Edited by KB. on 19/02/2013 at 21:29
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It's my experience that it's not uncommon to have to go halfway across the country to pick up a brokered car from a dealer. With Skoda, when I bought, it was only dealers authorised to do corporate sales who could offer 11% discount on Yetis. All the local dealers wouldn't budge above 8%. With supply easing a bit now and a facelifted model due this year I guess there's more scope for bargaining today..
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Yeti's are much more available than they were 2 years ago when I got mine so I doubt that you'll have to wait anything like that long and, as you say, you can always buy a used one. Fret not!
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Just one more question if I may:
I was just about to pick up the phone and book a Yeti test drive when I read the following on the autotrader website:
"A test drive needn’t be five minutes ’round the block – ask to borrow a car for an evening or a weekend so you can get familiar with it, without the pressure of a salesperson in the passenger seat"
Do dealers actually allow potential buyers to road test cars on an evening or weekend basis?
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Do dealers actually allow potential buyers to road test cars on an evening or weekend basis?
Some do but they are not very comon. A weekend test drive is usually some sort of manufacturer promotion rather than a dealer being nice.
When we bought our last car one dealer let us have it for a couple of hours, gave us plenty of time to suss the car out and we ordered one later the same day.
Most dealers still think that 5 minutes is plenty, one even wanted us to drive a different model to that which we were planning to buy saying basically its the same engine thus its the same car.
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Hi, thanks, that#s good to know. When you road tested your last car, was the dealer/sales rep in the car with you? The reason I'm asking is it will feel more relaxed if the dealer's not in...
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Hi, thanks, that#s good to know. When you road tested your last car, was the dealer/sales rep in the car with you? The reason I'm asking is it will feel more relaxed if the dealer's not in...
No, he just let us take it. In truth in almost 40 years of buying cars its only happened three times though, the norm is for the saleman to be present to bore you to death with pointless facts instead of allowing you to drive the b***** thing.
Truth is the Skoda dealers we tried were amongst the worse (2 dealers), only VW were actually worse and lied (3 dealers). Toyota were marginally better but lied constantly (2 dealers). Ford were OK but both dealers we tried could not get the colour we wanted (silver) unless we paid full retail, never do that with a Ford. Hyundai were better (they let us have a car for a couple of hours with no salesman) but could not get the car we wanted within our 8 week time frame. Kia got our business, no pressure, lent us car, enjoy it said salesman, deal worked out for when we got back, car promised in 8 weeks, came in 6, other than spending the money it was almost pleasurable
Edited by thunderbird on 27/02/2013 at 13:58
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We seem to have gone from a distinctly enthusistic line of enquiries from the OP....to....nothing for quite a while.
To be honest something told me I'd been wasting my time in giving comprehensive answere to the, numerous, questions asked by the OP and, for some strange reason, I still think the same thing.
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Hi Sur,
jist tea stir things up a bit vis-a-vis "off road capabilities"
Stick with FWD with reasonable ground clearance and reasonable tyres, or winter tyres in the winter.
99% of 4WD users are only poncing about and could not drive their way through a soggy brown paper bag, UNLESS they got 4WD.
Wheras a "farm raised child" will manage rightly with FWD.
Cheers
M
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Hi KB,
Sorry to hear you feel you've wasted your time by sharing your advice in response to my post. For my part, I feel I've benefited a lot from the advice I've received here, so thanks very much to everyone who's posted.
Dieseldogg: I'm going to stick with FWD because I don't think I'd have occasion to make serious use of the car's 4W capabilities were I to buy one, and in addition they cost more and have higher MPG. Good ground clearance and appropriate tyres are fine for me right now, so why pay more?
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