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Hi
My Sister was waiting to pull out at a junction.
A motorbike was proceeding along the main road indicating to turn left at the junction, he slowed down to do so, then continued along the main road, meanwhile, my Sister pulled out and a colission occured.
Where does my Sister stand legally?
Who was at fault?
Thanks
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Your sister will be at fault. I was behind a van which was indicating eft, but didn't turn. I still dont know how he missed the driver who pulled out.
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Sorry, OP, but your sister was at fault here. You should never decide to pull out of a side road based upon just a flashing indicator. The indicator could be faulty, i.e. not self cancelling or the driver might have simply changed his mind. You should only actually pull out when you see the front wheels, or, in the case of a motorcycle, front wheel, actually turning into the road from which you wish to exit.
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Sad to say, sisters fault, although motorcycles don't always have self cancelling indicators, but this is a lesson i learned too a few years ago, and almost got caught out. As another poster said, Always wait till the vehicle is turning . Those few seconds could save your life!
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It's a common problem. In this situation there's a temptation to take indicators at face value because if you wait for the vehicle to begin its manoeuvre, it is too late for you to pull out.
Accidents involving motorcycles are never nice-hope this one is easily resolved.
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A particular problem on Toyotas which have a very quiet ticking noise to alert the driver to cancel the indicator and only a small remote flashing light on the dashboard.
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Difficulty you have is that you will need to prove that the motorcyclist had its indicator on and it slowed down sufficiently that your sister was reasnanle to assume that the bike was about to turn
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Hi
My Sister was waiting to pull out at a junction.
A motorbike was proceeding along the main road indicating to turn left at the junction, he slowed down to do so, then continued along the main road, meanwhile, my Sister pulled out and a colission occured.
Where does my Sister stand legally?
Who was at fault?
Thanks
Oh Dear - Not this old chestnut again.
Presumably the junction was marked as a give way or a stop and give way junction-so that's exactly what you have to do and what your sister failed to do.
Question----What information does the left hand indicator blinking on that car approaching from your right convey to you?
Answer-- The bulb in the indicator lamp is working.(that is all it means)
Sorry to sound unsympathetic but that is the situation in a nutshell.
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It's your sister's fault in law but understandable, whats the point of indicators if taking notice of them lands you in trouble? Hand signals on bikes were better, not many riders forgot to cancel their arm.
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Anyone on a side road who takes notice of and acts on the indicators of cars/lorries/bikes on a major road is a danger to other users.
After all, it could be the bike had a fault and all indicators were flashing but you can only see the nearer ones.
Driving without due care and attention.
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It will be your sisters fault as your sister should of stopped at the giveaway before proceeding. Who else was in the car with her?
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If you lived in Milton Keynes for a few years you would never take notice of any indications or lack of! Hope everyone was OK.
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That is absolute rubbish it is not driving without due care and attention if u read properly they said the other person was indicating not hazard signalling, indicators are there for a reason otherwise we could all indicate left and wait for someone to crash into us to make a claim. That person should have been aware of their indicators being on that's like saying anyone who pays attention to someone who is braking and acts upon that person braking by also slowing down is wrong I think your a danger on the road of u act that way. Also if that person had faulty indicators they should not be on the road as that is against the law! Ur point is stupid!
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Given the OP was 4 years ago, I'm sure it will have been resolved by now!
But generally, bike indicators do not self-cancel. Bikers have it drummed into them to remember to cancel them - but I'm sure they forget from time to time - so I advise extra care before pulling out ahead of one who is indicating.
In the OPs scenario both share some blame - both legally and morally. But the biker is the most vulnerable one and I'm sure the bruises the biker has will remind him/her next time!
Edited by Marlot on 27/07/2016 at 12:10
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I was always told - and this goes back to when I was on 'L' plates back in 1988 or so - that indicators flashing means one thing, and one thing alone: that the indicators are working.
(If this was a joke, I'd then go : no they aren't. Yes they are. No they aren't. Yes they are ...)
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"
That is absolute rubbish it is not driving without due care and attention if u read properly they said the other person was indicating not hazard signalling"
It is not absolute rubbish.. I read what was written.
ANYONE who assumes that a signal is meant and takes a course of action which would result in an accident if the signal was not meant is at best a chancer and at worst an idiot.
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Could also be one of those accident scams....indicate left and trap someone into emerging, bang, your fault. there's a roundabout I use often and people indicate left and come straight on then they take the adjacent left into MacDonalds.
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If a policeman witnessed the accident and saw the motorcyclist indicating and preparing to turn but then change their mind, I think the motorcyclist would have been held responsoble for the collision.
I've had this on roundabouts - people signalling left and positioning themselves to exit the roundabout immediately to my right, then changing their mind, visibly swerving and then driving straight at me as I pull out. Luckily with no collisions.
Like others say, don't just assume indicators mean the driver is necssarily going to do what they indicate. But if the driver is also slowing down and clearly preparing to turn, how many of us on here would still wait just in case that driver stupidly changes their mind at the last minute?
Edited by Sofa Spud on 05/08/2016 at 00:14
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But if the driver is also slowing down and clearly preparing to turn, how many of us on here would still wait just in case that driver stupidly changes their mind at the last minute?
I would.
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But if the driver is also slowing down and clearly preparing to turn, how many of us on here would still wait just in case that driver stupidly changes their mind at the last minute?
I would.
So do I - I always say out loud as the vehicle is approaching with a signal showing "I don't believe you" and as it starts to turn, and the front wheels are pointing into the road, and it's slowed down, and the driver is looking into the turn "Ahh -now I believe you".
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But if the driver is also slowing down and clearly preparing to turn, how many of us on here would still wait just in case that driver stupidly changes their mind at the last minute?
I would.
So do I - I always say out loud as the vehicle is approaching with a signal showing "I don't believe you" and as it starts to turn, and the front wheels are pointing into the road, and it's slowed down, and the driver is looking into the turn "Ahh -now I believe you".
Although i agree to be wary, if a driver is indicating to move or to change direction and fails to do so, or indeed changes his mind at the last second, it is clearly a drivers error and is his or her fault. All vehicles have an MOT test for a reason, so to use the excuse of faulty lights is simply irrelivent. You stop at a red traffic light do you not.?. Do you simply drive on because it might be faulty or shouldnt be red.??.. We could all use the same petty excuse couldnt we.??. I flashed a driver to let him out and then smashed into him because i changed my mind, or my headlight switch was faulty. Who`s at fault then.??..
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Like others say, don't just assume indicators mean the driver is necssarily going to do what they indicate. But if the driver is also slowing down and clearly preparing to turn, how many of us on here would still wait just in case that driver stupidly changes their mind at the last minute?
Quite so, if the majority of us didn't drive reasonably competently, indicating and taking a position/speed adjustment/line on the road that confirms that indicated intention to a reasonable person...and the other majority of competent motorists responding, then our roads would soon descend into complete gridlock.
We have to take care to minimise the chances of accidents but we also have rub along together as best we can with some sort of cooperation and mutual trust.
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<We have to take care to minimise the chances of accidents>
I think you need to say that a bit louder as the majority of drivers are deaf/not listening
Cyclists are getting worse as well, going straight across roundabouts and junctions without even looking, or a signal as to where they are going
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Cyclists are getting worse as well, going straight across roundabouts and junctions without even looking, or a signal as to where they are going
The motorist cleaning them up is almost certainly in the wrong whatever the circumstances, the fact they may not survive or have enough of a body left to enjoy spending the resulting claim for damages doesn't enter whats left of their minds.
You can't always protect stupid from itself.
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Cyclists are getting worse as well, going straight across roundabouts and junctions without even looking, or a signal as to where they are going
The motorist cleaning them up is almost certainly in the wrong whatever the circumstances, the fact they may not survive or have enough of a body left to enjoy spending the resulting claim for damages doesn't enter whats left of their minds.
You can't always protect stupid from itself.
Very true. Before the days of Health and Safety and Nanny States there was Darwin's principle of 'survival of the fittest'.
Nowadays the population tends to get stupider as idiots don't eliminate themselves so reliably.
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Cyclists are getting worse as well, going straight across roundabouts and junctions without even looking, or a signal as to where they are going
The motorist cleaning them up is almost certainly in the wrong whatever the circumstances, the fact they may not survive or have enough of a body left to enjoy spending the resulting claim for damages doesn't enter whats left of their minds.
You can't always protect stupid from itself.
Very true. Before the days of Health and Safety and Nanny States there was Darwin's principle of 'survival of the fittest'.
Nowadays the population tends to get stupider as idiots don't eliminate themselves so reliably.
Oh I don't know. Local obituaries and court cases suggest smoking and drugs or violence kill lots before their "allotted span". And the drunk drivers appear to have been programmed to learn nothing and kill themselves on open roads at 1 -5 am,
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Like others say, don't just assume indicators mean the driver is necssarily going to do what they indicate. But if the driver is also slowing down and clearly preparing to turn, how many of us on here would still wait just in case that driver stupidly changes their mind at the last minute?
Quite so, if the majority of us didn't drive reasonably competently, indicating and taking a position/speed adjustment/line on the road that confirms that indicated intention to a reasonable person...and the other majority of competent motorists responding, then our roads would soon descend into complete gridlock.
We have to take care to minimise the chances of accidents but we also have rub along together as best we can with some sort of cooperation and mutual trust.
Mutual trust? You trust other road users?
I am very surprised to hear that from an experienced road user such as yourself.
Rule one-The only person you trust nowadays is yourself.
Rule two- The only other person you trust is your mate who is riding either in front or behind you.
Sorry-this is motorcylists rules!
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<< Rule one-The only person you trust nowadays is yourself. >>
.... and even then, only after thinking twice.
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Does she have dash cam footage?
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We have a bus stop a mere 20 feet from a junction - the other side of the junction. I know of one local (who should have known better) who pulled out thinking the bus was turning left. If only! The side road isn't wide enough for car and a bus to pass! Anyway, he was charged with driving without due care - thanks to the cop car that was immediately behind the bus!
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On Friday evening I was 10 yards from traffic lights for a busy junction and pulled out to avoid a car where the hazard indicators were flashing. A man was lying underneath, why, I don't know. I set the right turn indicator to show that I was pulling out but it didn't reset when I straightened out. Two people turned in front of me when I tried to drive across the junction causing me to brake twice. As I crossed the junction the driver of a van following me tooted and gesticulated before turning off. I then noticed that the right turn indicator was still flashing. If the driver is a BR I apologise - mea culpa.
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Does she have dash cam footage?
The original post was in November 2012, so I imagine it's a bit late to produce any now.
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Advice from the legal experts...
"Never assume that if a driver flashes their headlights it is actually safe for you to pull out and don’t trust indicators; wait until you actually see a car turning before you proceed."
www.keepmeontheroad.co.uk/what-to-do-car-accident/
Sorry mate.
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