Peugot 407 SW - 08 reg - Dealer guarantee

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Fri 8 Jun 2012 12:27
Peugot 407 SW - 08 reg - Dealer guarantee - jukebox

I bought the car in Feb 2012 for just over £5000 and was offered a 3 month or 3000 miles guarantee (whichever is sooner). However within the 3 months but over the 3000 miles limit it developed a fault and I took it back to the dealer I purchased it from. It is apparent that the ECU could be at fault as is being tested now. The car dealer lent me a car until the tax expired at the end of May when I had to hire a car - leading to more expense. I currently have another loan car for a limited time.

I am lead to believe that the 3 month guarantee is invalid as it should be 6 months . Could you please clarify the situation

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Fri 8 Jun 2012 13:18
Peugot 407 SW - 08 reg - Dealer guarantee - unthrottled

SoGA is not a guarantee against occurring problems. However, if a fault becomes apparent within 6 months then the interpretation is that the fault was probably developing at the time of sale and therefore should be corrected at the dealer's expednse. Not quite sure how this applies to electrical failures though.

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Fri 8 Jun 2012 17:20
Peugot 407 SW - 08 reg - Dealer guarantee - Collos25

Any failure.

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Fri 8 Jun 2012 18:58
Peugot 407 SW - 08 reg - Dealer guarantee - pd

There is no warranty given or implied for 3 days, 3 months or 6 months.

However, there are certain aspects under the SoGA which entitle you to products of "satisfactory" standard depending on amount paid, age, mileage, nature of transaction etc.

This can vary from a few days in the case of a cheap car for the price of a train ticket (which can be up a grand these days) to obviously longer in the case of a more expensive car.

I would have thought a fault which came apparent soon after purchase on this car which stopped it perfoming its main purpose and isn't really effected by wear & tear (e.g. if it had done 80k and the clutch went then you'd be on to a loser) you have a decent case for pressing them to fix it.

n.b. The idea that "any failure" is covered on a used, as opposed to new, car under the SoGA for any period of time is pure fantasy. People get confused because the SoGA is written primarily for new products - when a product is used and part worn and costing 25% of its new price it is fair to argue it only needs to be 25% as good.

Edited by pd on 08/06/2012 at 18:59

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Fri 8 Jun 2012 19:16
Peugot 407 SW - 08 reg - Dealer guarantee - unthrottled

Could the dealer not argue that the ECU fault was not present at the time of sale? Mechanical failures are often assumed to have failed over a period of time eg a wheel bearing will have lost its grease long before any droning sound becomes audible. Not quite as straight forward with electrical items.

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Fri 8 Jun 2012 19:27
Peugot 407 SW - 08 reg - Dealer guarantee - pd

The OP hasn't stated what the actual result of the fault is but I'm guessing it makes it undrivable.

With used items (cars), as opposed to new, the "satisfactory" argument seems to be the one usually addressed rather than faults. The law accepts that a used car will have faults and will have more break downs, less reliability, higher maintenance costs etc. and that is the reason for the relatively small percentage of the new value of most used cars.

However, on a £5k car unless it has a gazillion miles on it, it would probably be expected that a buyer would get 3 months use from it performing the basic functions of a car not excluding the failure of a part which could be deemed to have met the end of its natural life anyway. Therefore, a dodgy CD player, failed electric window etc. would be deemed just part of a used car's inferior nature to a new one and a wheel bearing, knocking suspension, exhaust etc. just part of natural wear & tear.

Where a dodgy ECU fits in is perhaps open to question - evidently it has failed after purchase but is it "satisfactory" that a £5k is non longer able to perform a basic car function due to the failure of a part which can't really be argued due to wear and tear?

I'd hope the dealer would at least help out. Most of these ECU's can be repaired rather than replaced and there are loads of specialists who will test and repair if necessary. The costs vary but it is usually £150-£200 sort of range.

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Fri 8 Jun 2012 19:41
Peugot 407 SW - 08 reg - Dealer guarantee - Collos25

e.g. if it had done 80k and the clutch went then you'd be on to a loser)

Not if it went within 6 months I had the cost of a complete clutch replacement on a MG ZTT 5 months after pürchase with over 100k on the clock.I willadmit I had to go to court but the offending seller settled outside the court before the case was heard.

I also had a turbo and actuator replaced on a x type with 99k without a murmour.

Stick to your guns and be prepared to go all the way .

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Fri 8 Jun 2012 19:35
Peugot 407 SW - 08 reg - Dealer guarantee - bonzo dog

Could the dealer not argue that the ECU fault was not present at the time of sale?

He could.

However SOGA assumes that the fault IS present at purchase if it develops within 6 months UNLESS the dealer can PROVE it wasn't.

As with any SOGA issue, it is down to the courts to ascertain whether this failure does fall under SOGA & whether the dealer has "proven" the fault wasn't present at purchase.

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Fri 8 Jun 2012 20:33
Peugot 407 SW - 08 reg - Dealer guarantee - unthrottled

However SOGA assumes that the fault IS present at purchase if it develops within 6 months UNLESS the dealer can PROVE it wasn't.

In civil cases, there is no need to prove beyond reasonable doubt, simply to show that, on balance of probability, X is true. With a mechanical failure, an expert can argue that there was an underlying fault that was insidious but present at the time of sale. It is harder to demonstrate that with electrical faults.

I'm going to hold up my hands and say that I don't know what view a court would take-and I think the dealer should offer assistance. But it is glib to say that any fault that develops within 6 months is automatically covered under SoGA.

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Fri 8 Jun 2012 21:29
Peugot 407 SW - 08 reg - Dealer guarantee - bonzo dog

But it is glib to say that any fault that develops within 6 months is automatically covered under SoGA.

Which is why I didn't (& I'm not saying you were saying I did).

It is for the court to decide:

  1. is the fault covered by SOGA &
  2. that the dealer has been able to "prove" the fault was not there at purchase.

What SOGA does say is that unlike post 6 months, where it is up to the customer to "prove" the fault was present at purchase, prior to 6 months the burdon of proof is reversed.

So assuming the court decides a faulty ECU on a X year old, X,000 mile car is covered under SOGA, then if the fault develops before 6 months of ownership it is assumed the fault was present at purchase unless the dealer can "prove" to the satisfaction of the court that it wasn't. The customer does not have to show in any way that it was.

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Sat 9 Jun 2012 16:59
Peugot 407 SW - 08 reg - Dealer guarantee - jukebox

Thanks all for your comments/advice - it seems it's a minefield and it may rely on a court case. I'll have to see but will post result

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