any - Shall we all buy petrol cars now then... - john96

Looking round motoring forums nowadays, it seems that all new (ish) diesels are guaranteed to have an expensive failure at some point.

So is it time to all buy petrol engines again??

BTW I drive a diesel yeti, so I must be due bad news...lol

any - Shall we all buy petrol cars now then... - unthrottled

Not seen too many HGVs with spark plugs. And I've not seen too many HGVs sitting on the hard shoulder either.

Diesels were always less forgiving than petrols and required a bit more thought from the operator. It was ever thus.

any - Shall we all buy petrol cars now then... - Chris M

But not many HGVs do >10,000 miles per year, which is the sort of mileage a lot of modern diesel owners do. Some people prefer how diesels drive, which is fair enough, but for the average mileage driver who doesn't tow a shed, I don't see the point. Over 20k a year it makes more sense economically and you are less likely to have issues caused by too many short journeys. Horses for courses.

Edited by Chris M on 28/01/2012 at 15:44

any - Shall we all buy petrol cars now then... - Avant

Chris M - do you mean < 10,000 miles a year?

any - Shall we all buy petrol cars now then... - thunderbird

I personally am in the "I like the way it drives" category but economics also come into it. Wife has a Ceed SW CRDi and does about 12,000 miles a year, most would say petrol territory. We keep our cars 5 to 6 years on average thus that's what I base my calcs on when purchasing. Her are my sums briefly comparing the petrol Ceed SW to our diesel.

Fuel 12,000 miles (mpg's estimated from our own figures and HJ real economy) @ 35mpg in petrol = 340 gallons a year, @ 50mpg in diesel = 240 gallons a year saving 100 gallons a year thus saving.approx £600 a year.

Road Tax, petrol 151 CO2's = £165 a year, diesel 124 CO2's = £95 a year thus saving £70 a year.

Servicing is the same for both the petrol and diesel version over 5 years at our dealer thus nothing either way.

Based on that our saving is £670 a year or £3,350 over 5 years.

Our diesel cost us about £1,200 more that the petrol when we bought it bring the savings down to £2,150 but at the end of 5 years our diesel will be worth a few hundread more than the petrol equivalent based on our past experiences so lets say £600 (Parkers say a 5 year old diesel SW is worth £1,300 more than the equivalent petrol but I am taking a more conservative estimate, hope they are right) which takes the savings over 5 years back upto £2,750.

We have been lucky in the past and had no problems with DMF's and DPF's etc but there is always a first time. In the Ceed there is no DMF thus we can forget that and the DPF is covered under the 7 year warranty thus we can forget about that as well.

Think I will continue buying one diesel for the forseable future.

any - Shall we all buy petrol cars now then... - Man without a plan

thunderbird, could you tell me a bit more about your experience with the ceed... looking for a new car and seriously considering a new / nearly new ceed.

Think i'm looking at the '3' spec to get the sportier front grille and cruise control... shame its only the '4' or the 'vr-7' that comes with parking sensors and neither come with cruise control IIRC.... shame...

Anyway the big selling point is the 7-year warranty but would want to use Kia themselves for servicing etc. Can you tell me how you found their service, what their rates are like, how good is the warranty in reality (if you've used it), build quality on the car... oh and what the service intervals are on the diesel if you recall...

Thanks

any - Shall we all buy petrol cars now then... - thunderbird

thunderbird, could you tell me a bit more about your experience with the ceed... looking for a new car and seriously considering a new / nearly new ceed.

Think i'm looking at the '3' spec to get the sportier front grille and cruise control... shame its only the '4' or the 'vr-7' that comes with parking sensors and neither come with cruise control IIRC.... shame...

Anyway the big selling point is the 7-year warranty but would want to use Kia themselves for servicing etc. Can you tell me how you found their service, what their rates are like, how good is the warranty in reality (if you've used it), build quality on the car... oh and what the service intervals are on the diesel if you recall...

Thanks

The experience has been good from walking into the showroom 18 months ago to today. We bought the 3 because it had Stabilty Control and Cruise Control but the 2 has these now thus would not spend the extra. Cannot see the "sporty grille" while I am driving plus I have found that my eyes have worked very well as parking sensors since I learned to drive, FYI our SW3 does have them and they are great.

Servicing costs are competitive but do vary between dealers, our dealers prices are all in but some do the Ford thing and ring up with extras. The all in prices are slightly less than Ford when you have added all the xtras in. Not needed to use the warranty but the build quality is very good which bodes well. Diesel services are every 12 months or 20,000 miles. Economy is about 50mpg.

We are very happy.

any - Shall we all buy petrol cars now then... - Man without a plan

Thanks thunderbird, the argument in favour of the ceed keeps growing :)

Rather amusing, it seems Kia either never sold a '4' variant of the ceed or if they did, all of their owners are so happy with them, they aren't selling second hand or nearly new.

For me, the real "must haves" (apart from things that are included across the range) are bluetooth and cruise control... the parking sensors would be nice but not essential really. Therefore I think the '2 Ecodynamics' might be an option along with the '3' and definately a '4' if I ever manage to find one.

Thanks again for the help.

any - Shall we all buy petrol cars now then... - thunderbird

Thanks thunderbird, the argument in favour of the ceed keeps growing :)

Rather amusing, it seems Kia either never sold a '4' variant of the ceed or if they did, all of their owners are so happy with them, they aren't selling second hand or nearly new.

For me, the real "must haves" (apart from things that are included across the range) are bluetooth and cruise control... the parking sensors would be nice but not essential really. Therefore I think the '2 Ecodynamics' might be an option along with the '3' and definately a '4' if I ever manage to find one.

Thanks again for the help.

Don't bother with the Ecodynamics, the 90 bhp engine is not fast and as with all stop/start systems its a waste of time in the real world. The 115 bhp engine is a gem and probably just as econonomical in the real world. The 4 has only been on the market a few months thus it would have to be a demonstrator if you found one. With the current huge discounts a 3 with the 115 engine is an absolute bargain IMHO if you must have bluetooth, it works perfectly with our Nokia phones but we don't make calls, we only answer them if absolutely necessary.

any - Shall we all buy petrol cars now then... - colinh

Just sold my 3-door cee'd (pro_cee'd) - I've put an owner's review on the site. Steer clear of the larger wheels that come with the higher trims, if possible. As noted, this is a Hyundai/Kia problem - inflexibility of options - I wanted cruise control and folding mirrors (narrow garage entrance), so had to have the 17" wheels = firm ride.

any - Shall we all buy petrol cars now then... - Man without a plan

Thanks for the info colinh... unfortunately (?) the '3' variant comes with 17" wheels... are they really that bad? Coming from my 'spine breaker' Smart ForTwo, perhaps it wouldn't feel too bad for me?

How did you find your Kia in terms of build quality / service at the dealership / warranty work? And why did you get rid of it and what did you swap it for? (sorry for so many questions).

any - Shall we all buy petrol cars now then... - Man without a plan

From my research, the '3' variant comes with the 126bhp engine if I remember correctly...

Is your 3 the 115 because it is slighly older?

Looking at the HJ 'Real MPG's' section, the EcoDynamics seems to average 58.5MPG compared to 47.1MPG for the 115Bhp 1.6 Diesel... Not sure on the sample sizes on that though so hard to see if that realistic.

I didn't know the '4' variant was new. In the Kia showroom last night the bloke was saying how the new Ceed is on its way so he seemed to indicate that even buying new, any Ceed would be hard to get hold of... very strange.

One annoying thing is the lack of prices available on the Kia site... ok the list prices are always stupid anyway but they don't even seem to have list prices available that I can see. Although you mentione 'huge discounts' so perhaps you know where I can find prices?

RE: Bluetooth, does it allow you to have more than one phone paired at a time?

any - Shall we all buy petrol cars now then... - thunderbird

From my research, the '3' variant comes with the 126bhp engine if I remember correctly...

Is your 3 the 115 because it is slighly older?

Looking at the HJ 'Real MPG's' section, the EcoDynamics seems to average 58.5MPG compared to 47.1MPG for the 115Bhp 1.6 Diesel... Not sure on the sample sizes on that though so hard to see if that realistic.

I didn't know the '4' variant was new. In the Kia showroom last night the bloke was saying how the new Ceed is on its way so he seemed to indicate that even buying new, any Ceed would be hard to get hold of... very strange.

One annoying thing is the lack of prices available on the Kia site... ok the list prices are always stupid anyway but they don't even seem to have list prices available that I can see. Although you mentione 'huge discounts' so perhaps you know where I can find prices?

RE: Bluetooth, does it allow you to have more than one phone paired at a time?

The 1, VR7 and 2 "Eco" are 90 bhp diesels, the 2 & 3 are 115 bhp diesels and the 4 is a 126 bhp diesel, the 4 only came out last October time for 2012 model year.

There is no way the underpowered Eco is 11 mpg to the gallon better than the non Eco models, owners tell a different story to Honest John.

Bluetooth connects to the first phone in the car even if both have been previously paired, sure that is normal with most cars.

Links below for spec (tab across for other features) and prices.

http://www.kia.co.uk/new-cars/range/mid-sized-cars/ceed/specification/technical-specification.aspx

www.kia.co.uk/new-cars/range/mid-sized-cars/ceed/p...x

any - Shall we all buy petrol cars now then... - Chris M

Well done Avant, I was waiting for someone to spot that.

Edited by Chris M on 29/01/2012 at 08:59

any - Shall we all buy petrol cars now then... - TeeCee

Also not many HGVs sport DMFs, DPFs or tiny overstressed engines with whopping high-boost turbos on em.

Diesel car engines used to last forever when they were all simple, felt torquey but underpowered and were 2 litres plus too.....

any - Shall we all buy petrol cars now then... - unthrottled

Also not many HGVs sport DMFs, DPFs or tiny overstressed engines with whopping high-boost turbos on em.

Every single feature you see on an automotive diesel was developed for the heavy duty sector decades before it appeared in cars. High pressure turbocharging, high pressure (direct) injection were being used in trucks in the 1960s. Heavy duty Turbos were running 25 psi back in the early 70s.

Unlike car engines were the maximum horsepower is seldom used, heavy duty engines run hard all day long.

And yes, they do use DPFs-as well as SCR (which european diesel cars do not).

They might look understressed because they don't make much horsepower for their size. But how long do you think a 180hp 2.0 litre diesel could run at full power without hurting itself? Couple of minutes...

any - Shall we all buy petrol cars now then... - mss1tw
Unlike car engines were the maximum horsepower is seldom used, heavy duty engines run hard all day long.

But how long do you think a 180hp 2.0 litre diesel could run at full power without hurting itself? Couple of minutes...

55mph isn't running hard is it? I assumed they were barely ticking over at that speed.

Also you said your average car engine was designed to have the wossnames thrashed off of it for hours on end! :o)

any - Shall we all buy petrol cars now then... - unthrottled

55mph isn't running hard is it?

It is when you're pulling 44 tonnes

Also you said your average car engine was designed to have the wossnames thrashed off of it for hours on end!

How much horsepower do you think you need to do 90 mph? Perhaps 60. Not a tall order for an engine rated at 150+ ponies.