Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - dogdevon

I have read a few reports of rainwater and road spray entering the air intake and wetting the air filter on a Fiat Panda. Mine is a multi-jet diesel 2007. The air inlet is behind the radiator grill to the right of the nearside headlight. The entrance is protected only by the perforated rad grill so inevitably rain and spray enter. WORSE. If the car is parked 'looking uphill', rain water runs down the bonnet and drips into the air intake. WORSE STILL, there is a raised bar running horizontally across the radiator grill - if the car is parked looking uphill, snow, sleet, hail and ice will collect on and above the bar and on the grill. When the accumulation melts, the melt***er runs straight into the air intake, thence to the air filter and air filter box and from there to the engine - potentially disastrous. ALWAYS PARK ON THE FLAT. ANtone know of a modification - a few simple ideas come to mind - to solve this problem. Car retrurns 66 mpg+ with single occupant, driven carefully and in neutral wherever possible

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - unthrottled

Come off it! Look at the path the water would have to follow-even if it got past the air filter. Not a cat in hell's chance of it getting to the engine.There isn't a modification because there isn't a problem.

BTW-water injection is a niche, but very effective modificatyion to diesel engines-the system is used to protect the engine under sustained high load.

P.S. Great mpg!

Edited by unthrottled on 17/12/2011 at 20:33

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - dogdevon

Well I've just suffered the problem described and so far as I can see, the only way the water can have got in is as described. SH car, low mileage, owned 10 days did 500 miles some in rain but we left it parked in bad weather pointing uphill on a steep slope - and I mean steep ! Yes brilliant fuel performance - keep it around 55 and in neutral at all opportunities !

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - Avant

Park it pointing downhill.

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - dogdevon

Yes - very definitley will do ! I have to say that so far as I can see with the car on a slope as described flooding and the path to the engine appears straight forward. Dealer dealt with the non-starting problem. I have not dismantled the system as yet since have owned for only 10 days ! I shall consider the merit of drilling a hole in the inlet tube ahead of the filter to allow such water to drain. Thanks for your advice !! Cheers.

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - unthrottled

What is the problem-a wet air filter? Do the water droplets in fog cause problems when they enter the air inlet pipe-of course not!

If it wa sa problem, Fiat would just put another bend in the pipe and point it somewhere else. They wouldn't risk engine damage for a 50p modification.

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - dogdevon

The problem was that the car would not start. Returned to the dealer because so recently purchased- they found the air filter saturated and the filter box containing water and a small amount of water in cylinder 4. I do not know the engine intimately but without taking things to pieces there seems to be a simple path. Thanks your comments - appreciated. My concern was that the car had not been properly prepared before sale but having seen the layout - I incline to my view of water entry. Some sort of deflector would seem to be a good idea.

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - unthrottled

How did they find the water in cylinder 4? Water entering an engine is not funny-but the path is seldom through the intake. Could have come from the fuel-or a leaking head gasket (hope not).

The weather is cold and damp-I'd expect the air filter and box to be a moist. The air box is damp because the water is collecting there and not going into the engine. The turbo would be damaged if water had been drawn through it.

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - dogdevon

Thanks all. I am in little doubt as to how water got into the air filter box and throttle chamber. Now that I have looked at layout - it is obvious. Accepted to get to the engine water would have to get past the TC which is not damaged. I am informed there was a small amount of water in cyl 4 - found when heater pugs removed. All is OK.

I am aware of potential for damae to TC and 'hydraulicing'. I've seen jet ski engines where a broken con rod has emerged through the side of the engine !

My intention was only to alert members to the intake system and NOT to park looking uphill with the intention of saving someone a problem. Ends !

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - SteveLee

Could be nasty, it the cylinder fills with water then you could bend a conrod trying to start it.

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - dogdevon

You must believe what I say ! There is no other way water can have flooded the air filter box, air filter and throttle chamber. The main problem is the external ridge on the rad grill - I have not looked at many other Pandas but the latest petrol version owned by my neighbour - has no such ridge. The ridge collects water running down the bonnet that drips onto it - and worse - snow and hail - when these melt - melt water drips straight into the air intake. The dealer reported a small amount of water in cyl 4 which did no damage but which which can only have got there via the TC. The answer is NOT to park looking uphill and to fit a simple flapahead of the intake, outside the rad grill to act as a deflector - without reducing air flow. No mod fitted as yet - but the problem has not reccurred - notwithstanding heavy rain. I wonder if rad grills on cars later than 2007 are different.

Noisy on start up. Road noise excessive on anything other than a really smooth surface. Very responsive - especially in 2nd gear - slightest movement of foot on pedal gives rise to rapid responses. Car with 3 persons on board - seems same as with 1. Very good space - can carry Springer Spaniel - behind the back seat. This car replaced a Merc C250 TD estate !

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - dogdevon

(Duplicate post)

Edited by Avant on 30/12/2011 at 00:54

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - unthrottled

Road noise excessive on anything other than a really smooth surface

Tyres?

The dealer reported a small amount of water in cyl 4 which did no damage but which which can only have got there via the TC.

Since all four cylinders are fed by the same TC, why is only one cylinder (not in the middle) affected?

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - SteveLee

Since all four cylinders are fed by the same TC, why is only one cylinder (not in the middle) affected?

Because there's only going to be one inlet value open at any given time on a conventional four cylinder engine.

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - unthrottled

And you think that, during cranking, the air veocity was sufficient to carry the water to an outer cylinder...???

If the engine was already running during the ingress of water then either the engine would have:

a.) hydraulically locked or;

b.) the water would have been exhausted as steam without the driver being aware that anything had happened.

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - dogdevon

Unthrottled - call me if you wish 01752 894574. It is now end of June and the car developed problems end of March after incident of water ingress to air intake in December 2011. as before. Car taken on by insurer when it began starting on 3 cylinders in March - very quickly ran on 4 but I was unhappy. Car eventually written off - cost of engine replacement made it a c.t.l. There is no other way water can have got into engine other than by rain and hail gathering on bonnet & radiiator grill then melting. Who would have thought of flooding ? No other symptom or activity to suggest otherwise. I SAY AGAIN - DO NOT PARK A 2007 DIESEL PANDA ON A SLOPE LOOKING UPHILL ! CHECK YOUR RADIATOR GRILL AND POSITION OF AIR INTAKE, A LATER VERSION I HAVE SEEN, HAS INTAKE DIRECTED ACROSS THE GRIIL. BEWARE !!!

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - Avant

I hope you found something better to replace it!

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - RT

I don't understand! Virtually all cars these days have a cold air intake situated just behind the grill - they'll all get water in them when driving in the rain, it's "normal" - every filter box I've seen has drain holes in the chamber just before the filter to allow any water to run out.

Could it just be a blockage of the drain holes?

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - unthrottled

The whole thread is bonkers. No one else has this problem!

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - gericb

Friend of mine has had this last week. Fiat have a mod shielding the air filter but bar that it appears they dont want to know

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - ChannelZ

Car retrurns 66 mpg+ with single occupant, driven carefully and in neutral wherever possible

You use MORE fuel by coasting in neutral that you do driving in gear with no throttle. Modern engines use NO fuel at all when on a shut throttle, but use 0.1-0.3gallon/hour idling. Not to mention the safety issues of driving in neutral...

Water filling the cylinder through the air intake when parked is total and utter b******s, too. Or does water flow uphill in your crazy universe? It must do, to get up through the air box, in through the intercooler, through the turbo, and in to the cylinders.

You're an idiot if you think anything other than driving through a flood put water in your engine.

Edited by ChannelZ on 29/06/2012 at 12:02

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - Sheepy-by-the-Sea

Take a look on in the Panda section on Fiatforum.com, this is a known problem and I believe there is a modification available from FIAT - or do as others have done and seal around the screws on the top of the airbox.

I suspect the OP is not an idiot.

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - xaviour

Sometimes water drips down onto the back of the air filter box where it hinges to allow opening to replace the airfilter, and this allows water to leak into the front chamber of the airbox. From here it can wet the Air Mass Meter (if you are lucky, as this will stop the car) or get sucked directly into the turbocharger compressor wheel, and thence via the charge cooler directly into the engine! Again: if you are lucky, this might cause hydraulic lock, but can cause bent con. rods etc. (If you get hydraulic lock: take out the glow plugs, and turn the engine over by hand, and the water will squirt out, but you will need to drain all the post compressor induction system too)

Where does the water come from?

Look at the black plastic moulding below the windscreen. It is secured by three self tapping screws at the inferior edge. The middle one of these screws into a plastic insert in the steel bulkhead just above the airfilter box.... In certain situations, when the rain and wind are just right this acts as a spout, and directs a stream of water onto the vulnerable back hinge / joint of the airbox. The water does not come from the air inlet at the front of the grill. The back part of the airbox below the airfilter has drain holes to allow any water coming in with the air to drain out before the air is filtered. However there can be no drain holes once the air has been filtered, as otherwise this would defeat the purpose of having an airfilter, so once the water has gotten into the post airfilter part of the system, it can only go into the engine: as described above.

Not sure anout Fiat fix. Seal screw hole with silicone sealer.

Hope that solves the mystery.

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - Avant

"Hope that solves the mystery."

So do I - this thread was started nearly a year ago.

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - PandaLover

I know this thread has been running for a while but I thought I'd add my own experience.

My Panda (56 Multijet, 80k mile) had been parked on the driveway for a few weeks back in March/April - remember all that rain!

On trying to start it, the egine then turn briefly and then the starter appeared to be jammed or, as was subsequently diagnosed, the engine had seized.

The breakdown/recovery team tried to tow-start the car but the wheels just locked up. The vehicle ot a local garage - formerly a Fiat dealer and well acquainted with the Panda, and this one in particular. They drained the oil which contained 'lots of water', refilled with oil and then concluded that the engine was indeed seized. Cost to replace with an non-OEM recon engine approxmately £4k. The 'generously offered me £150 for the car. I had it trailered back home and did some research.

To cut a long story short, removed the ari-filter housing (all dry), removed the glowplugs and on turning over the engine, jets of water came out of the engine, mainly cylinders 2 and 3. I left the car to 'air' with the plugs out. I also disconnected the hose from the intercooler and a couple of litres of water poured out.

On reasssemlby, with new oil, filter and battery (original killed by attempts at starting) the car started and after some initial exhaust smoke/steam ran beautifully.

A few days later, we went to lOndon and back in torrential (Jubillee Flotilla weekend). The car rain perfectly. Next day - the same symptons.

I repeated the plugs out, drain intercooler process etc (not the battery this time) and hey presto, all okay again.

I made some minor mods to hopefully prevent his recurring. I drilled a drain hole in the bottom of the air-valve (?) housing to hopefully prevent water being drawn into the intercooler. I placed duct tape along the top edge of the grille to prevent water dripping into the air-inlet when the car is parked with the front pointing uphill and also placed a strip of duct tape over the grille directly in front of the air-inlet. to discourage water ingress when driving.

My son has owned the car since that time (added another 6-8k miles) and has driven in some pretty dire (flood) conditions with no recurrence of the problems. On later Panda's I believe the position of the air inlet was 'modified' by Fiat although they don't want to own up to this defect.

How many Panda's have been scrapped or sold for scrap as a result of this is open to conjecture.

It's still a great car though!

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - brum

IIRC there was a spate of 1.3 Multijets assembled with the incorrect head gasket (too thin I think) or something like that. Recalls were issued by the varoius manufacturers that use this engine.

Your problem is far more likely to be Head Gasket. Highly unlikely to get water into cylinders unless you drive in a flood/ford that takes water completely over the air intake.

I find it highly implausible that the air filter housing and inlet hose dont have drain holes by design. Even if they are blocked, its physically impossible to get that amount of standing water into a cylinder via a saturated air filter while the car engine is stopped. When the engine is running any water drawn into a piston, will exit as steam within half a revolution.

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - PandaLover

Brum. Check the forums. This is a known problem, albeit not commonplace

If it was a head-gasket problem then there would be water-loss and overheating as a result. This isn't the case. Explain to me how a leaking head-gasket can cause 2 litres of water to accumulate in the intercooler.

Also, if it were a head-gasket problem, why is my son's car (formerly mine) still alive and well and living in East Yorkshire and being run on a daily basis? Also, it travelled nearly 1000 miles without incident over the Chistmas/New Year period.

Strange but true.

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - SteveLee
I find it highly implausible that the air filter housing and inlet hose dont have drain holes by design. Even if they are blocked, its physically impossible to get that amount of standing water into a cylinder via a saturated air filter while the car engine is stopped. When the engine is running any water drawn into a piston, will exit as steam within half a revolution.

Yet another example posted below - I guess you're wrong.

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - grayban

Well...guess what I've just had same problem. Multijet parked on a slope. Took a few pints of water out of lower intercooler hose after car engine locked up on starting. I removed heater plugs and squirted tons of water out of the cylinders. My repair was to duct tape the top of the airbox that way the only air entering the engine comes from the air inlet. I've got to admit it ain't pretty but it works. Fiat should really do something about this known problem. I believe it is caused by distortion of the airbox causing a poor seal for the air filter at the back of the box. The gap then allows the rainwater to enter the airbox by dropping from the drain in front of the window onto the airbox and into the engine. Sounds mad but it's happened to me!

Edited by grayban on 26/05/2014 at 19:09

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - dogdevon

I have just come back to this site after contact in 2012. Our car was flooded in late 2011, was dealt with by the supplying dealer who refused to consider under warranty on the basis I had 'driven through puddles'.

However problems began in early 2012 when started to start and run on 3 cylinders.

In my view there was no other way that water could have got into the engine other than via rainwater or melting ice / snow (far more likely) via the air inlet. The dealer told me at the outset, in refusing to deal with the situation under warranty, that I had been 'driving through puddles' !

My Insurer accepted the situation as put by me - ice melt getting into air intake - and in view of the fact I had owned the car for only 4 weeks prior to the event - 'wrote it off'. The insurer paid more or less my second hand purchase price of the car.

I now have a Vauxhall Corsa with the same diesel engine that is not quite as economical but which nevertheless has the same drive peculiaritiies - need to keep the revs up at low speed and easy to stall !

Fiat Panda 2007 1.3 multi-jet diesel - Water in Fiat Panda air filter - GeorgeHuds

I know this is an old story but I have just come accross this thread while trying to work out what to do with my fiat panda multijet 1.3 (2005, 93K mileage). It had to be towed away after it wouldn't start, the garage advised water in the air filter and I must have been in a flood. I definately haven't driven through a flood but I do live on top of a hill and it has rained a bit lately, even in August! Ironically it had full service and MOT a couple of weeks before, at a different garage.

The garage suggest the options of stripping the engine to work out the damage, if necessary repair valve or rods or worst case scenario new engine or scrap the car. I don't have the money to do costly repairs and the car is getting on, but don't want to scrap it if there is something we can try as it is a lovely economical drive. I will suggest to the garage trying what has been outlined above re plugs etc. If anyone knows how much this type of work could cost, has found links to other forums suggesting solutions or has other suggestions that could work, please post.

Thanks