McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree

Honest John Back Room » Motoring discussion
View Threaded
Sat 6 Aug 2011 19:07
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - monian

Reading in the papers today about Rowan Atkinson's unfortunate prang with a tree in his McLaren F1, it was reported in the Daily Mail (so it must be correct) that the makers recommend a service every 6000 miles and the cost for this is £30,000 each time.

Can this be true?

If it is what needs to be done to warrant that price? Does anyone know?

Ian

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 6 Aug 2011 19:34
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - unthrottled

The gold foil the in the engine bay is replaced and this is a pretty expensive process. (aluminium would have done ther job almost as well, at a fraction of the cost, but that isn't what supercars are about!)

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 6 Aug 2011 20:27
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - jamie745

Did you just say its 30k for some foil?

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 6 Aug 2011 22:53
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - Sofa Spud

I wonder what proportion of the total production of McLaren F1's have been destroyed or badly damaged in accidents.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sat 6 Aug 2011 23:00
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - jamie745

It was coming though, it was only a couple of weeks ago he was on Top Gear mentioning his 14 year ownership of the vehicle.

Supercars in general, even for old rich people (or young rich people, footballers especially) must be any insurance companies nightmare. Didnt Cristiano Ronaldo make up the majority of written off cars in the Manchester area for a while?

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 7 Aug 2011 13:09
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - turbo11

I met Rowan Atkinson at work when he came to collect his F1 from Albert drive. He was being given the guided tour by Ron. A very nice chap he is, and he showed considerable interest in Mika's gearbox I was building at the time.

Hopefully it shouldn't be too much work to get it back him and his F1 back on the road again. I can't think of any F1's that have been written off, as there are spares of every item and the carbon chassis are fairly straight forward, but very time consuming to fix, Your still talking in the tens of thousands but with an F1 now worth a million, then thats cheap. When I left, Rons F1 ( chassis 100- the last of them) hadn't even been on the road.

Yes an F1 service is £30K, and if your F1 resides is some far off land then the mechanic(s) will come to you and service your car. A local garage with a four poster will be hired, for the work to be undertaken. All the fluids will be replaced, discs/pads, tyres if necessary. not sure when belts are changed, but i can find out if your desperate.The telemetry from the car is downloaded, so what the car has been up to is easily viewed. Re-foiling is very time consuming( I have done this many a time on F1 cars)The gold foil is fairly expensive( £hundreds per roll), but the labour time is much more. The engines are fairly bullet proof and BMW still reckon its the best engine they have ever made. My mates 550 Maranello used to require belts, clutch (engine out), discs/pads,fluids every major service. a bargain at £6K.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 7 Aug 2011 13:48
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - davecooper

Didn't some businessman total himself and his two mates along with the car back in the 90's? Can't remember the full details so apologies if I have killed someone off prematurely.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 7 Aug 2011 13:53
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - unthrottled

I don't know if it is the centre mounted steering wheel, but the McClaren F1 (which isn't an F1 at all, is it?) just evokes this unedifying image of toad of toad hall.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 7 Aug 2011 16:38
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - turbo11

I don't know if it is the centre mounted steering wheel, but the McClaren F1 (which isn't an F1 at all, is it?) just evokes this unedifying image of toad of toad hall.

Unthrottled's usual boring negative reply about anything that doesn't meet with his approval. Why not try a different site instead of boring us with your usual negative quips. Is there any thing that you do like?.I am sure you drive round in some marvelous piece of automotive design. Please inform us.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 7 Aug 2011 17:46
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - bathtub tom

>>Unthrottled's usual boring negative reply about anything that doesn't meet with his approval. Why not try a different site instead of boring us with your usual negative quips.

I try to avoid joining in these tiffs, but I found that comment negative. I'd much rather have those with a good knowledge of the subject on this forum than the foul-mouthed, ignorant louts that seem to have inhabited it recently.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 7 Aug 2011 18:09
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - unthrottled

Fair enough, it was negative. If the edit function was working I would remove it to make you happier.

But I try to balance the nagativity. I'm as happy to praise good design as bad design.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 7 Aug 2011 18:23
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - jamie745

Maybe we should have the 'things which annoy us' thread as to keep all negative comments in one easy monthly installment.

Edited by Avant on 07/08/2011 at 18:39

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 7 Aug 2011 23:06
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - Hershey

I have noticed while looking over the forums certain members are always so negative and stressed out about everything in life. Maybe If they purchased an automatic and put the cruise control at @50mph when on the motorway they would find out how relaxing driving can be.....

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 7 Aug 2011 17:54
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - Avant

This thread was started to discuss interesting aspects of the McLaren car (not McClaren, which might suggest that you drive it while holding an umbrella).

There is therefore no need (here or anywhere else) for anyone to get personal.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 7 Aug 2011 19:03
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - turbo11

This thread was started to discuss interesting aspects of the McLaren car (not McClaren, which might suggest that you drive it while holding an umbrella).

There is therefore no need (here or anywhere else) for anyone to get personal.

The Mclaren F1 was the brainchild of a very good friend of mine, a Mr Gordon Murray. Therefore if you get negative with my friends and work colleagues work then expect some flak back from me, especially when the comments are from people who may have done little if anything constructive in their own lives. Any fool can try and slag something off, try doing something extraordinary and innovative yourself. It get's boring and moronic, and will lose visitors to this site.:)

I would much rather read Jamies rantings, I wouldn't always agree with him but at least he has a bit of passion

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 7 Aug 2011 23:01
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - unthrottled

Turbo11-Yet again I'm sorry if my comments offended you, although I don't think name dropping adds much to the discussion.

Let my try to quantify my negative opinion of the McLaren f1.

My criticism of the McLaren F1 applies equally to all the supercars; namely that they offer only incrementally improved performance over their mainstream rivals, but at an exponentially increased cost. It is not difficult to build a fast car given a large enough budget.

It is hard to see how any of the supercars advance the field of automotive engineering. A 48 valve, 12 cylinder engine makes a lot of power. Who'd have thunk it? Gold plated engine bays that require expensive renewal every few thousand miles? Ceramic brakes at £8000 a pop. etc etc.

Or how about Bugatti's Veyron? In spite of its £900,000+ pricetag, each car is sold at a loss. Hardly a magnificantfeat. Even the engine isn't that impressive. Yes, the W16 quad turbo makes 1000hp. So what? Red necks in Alabama can achieve the same result with a pushrod V8 and a single turbo at a fraction of the cost. I don't for a minute think VW's engineers are incompetent. Rather, I think they designed to Veyron to be as exclusive and expensive as possible, and I think that is slightly vulgar.

Much more impressive in my mind are the fast yet relatively affordable cars. A case in point would be GM's Chevrolet LSX engine. This powers the corvette Z06 and ZR1 and the Cadillac CTS-V. This engine took OHV technology to places no one thought it was capable of going. The technology filters down to cars and trucks that real people drive. The cars come with proper warranties. They cost a lot less than their European rivals-yet deliver every bit as much performance. You don't need to be a millionaire to own one. You don't need to be a celebrity on an approved list to offered the 'privilege' of being allowed to buy one. This sales gimmick smacks of elitist snobbery.

from people who may have done little if anything constructive in their own lives

My field is industrial diesel engines. These unglamerous prime movers are what power trucks, locomotives, ships, gensets- basically they power the world's economy. Any one of the offerings from Wartsila, Caterpillar, Detrit, VAG/Scania has delivered more to mankind than all of the exotic white elephants put together.

Edited by unthrottled on 07/08/2011 at 23:11

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 7 Aug 2011 23:41
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - jamie745

It is not difficult to build a fast car given a large enough budget.

Fair point. If given unlimited funds the least you expect back is reasonable success. You can apply that to most business', take football for instance, even though the games still needed winning it was made much easier by the fact the likes of Abramovich can buy the best players etc.

Or how about Bugatti's Veyron? In spite of its £900,000+ pricetag, each car is sold at a loss. Hardly a magnificantfeat. Even the engine isn't that impressive. Yes, the W16 quad turbo makes 1000hp. So what? Red necks in Alabama can achieve the same result with a pushrod V8 and a single turbo at a fraction of the cost. I don't for a minute think VW's engineers are incompetent. Rather, I think they designed to Veyron to be as exclusive and expensive as possible, and I think that is slightly vulgar.

Well you're sort of right with that because the Veyron was made purely to show what VW's engineers can do if given enough money. Each one cost about £5million to make and it was made purely as a demonstration of the companies ability. Its not just the 1000bhp engine, its the fact the car is capable of using it whilst not blowing up in a big fireball. I saw a program on Nat Geo about the making of the Veyron and it was very interesting. But you're right it wasnt made to make money, they knew they'd lose money, it was just made 'because it could be done'.

Much more impressive in my mind are the fast yet relatively affordable cars. A case in point would be GM's Chevrolet LSX engine. This powers the corvette Z06 and ZR1 and the Cadillac CTS-V. This engine took OHV technology to places no one thought it was capable of going.

The CTS-V is very expensive for what it actually is though, and its only available in left-hand drive. All American cars have drawbacks, namely build quality, compared to the Germans but thats offset with mean looks and a lower price. But unlike the Europeans they dont insist on flappy paddle gearboxes which dont work, and instead opt for a proper gearbox and pedals.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 7 Aug 2011 22:25
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - Avant

Jamie - Turbo11 was defending you so don't swear at him. Offending posts deleted.

Turbo - from what I read, particularly in Autocar, Gordon Murray is one of the brightest minds in current auto engineering. I hope he will get some backing for his electric car - the T27 I think, which seems to me to be bringing some real original thought to urban motoring.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Sun 7 Aug 2011 22:32
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - jamie745

I shouldve known Avant would remove my sweary posts. Human form of the swearbot.

Any electric car seems to get hefty financial backing regardless of merit so i hope he makes use of it.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2011 13:53
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - ForumNeedsModerating

Re service cost, Rowan Atkinson would probably regard £30K well spent - the F1s appear to be a good investment as well as a thrilling car to drive (- and I hope RA gets over any after effects of his crash as soon as possible!).

It is slightly amusing to read comments about how/where McLaren might 'improve' their products & design philosophy - no doubt they're taking copious note of comments here & must feel crushed..

As to the car itself, RA probably regards this more as an 'artwork' - albeit more than one that simply hangs on a wall or adorns a plinth & any service/repair would be treated as a 'conservator' cost rather than a trip to the garage.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2011 15:14
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - jamie745

As to the car itself, RA probably regards this more as an 'artwork'

Apparently art cant be art unless it serves no purpose or some rubbish like that, since he crashed it it can now very much be described as art :)

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2011 15:19
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - unthrottled

Arguments evoking 'art' or 'passion' are unquantifiable and add little to a discussion about engineering.

I don't know why you buy into the marketing myth of these white elephants,. Building a supercar is comparitively easy. In fact there are over a dozen of these little outfits each trying to convince the world that their 200+ chariot is so much better than everyone else's.

Take Spyker. They offer 7 models (why?) of high dollar, luxury coupes. Everyone coos over their exotic wares. Yet, what could they they do to help Saab build competitive car?

That's it. Nothing! Now They've toddled off to China to try to scam some 'investment' out of the Chinese. The Chinese aren't fools and are having none of it.

Supercars belong on Top Trump cards. Which are usually played with by children.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2011 15:41
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - jamie745

People who own these sorts of cars, or people who own Alfa's etc all come up with the same response when its pointed out how useless they are. Its 'art'. They always go back to that because they know nobody can prove it is or isnt, where as on a discussion about its genuine engineering qualities they wouldnt have a chance. And thats just it, supercars cannot be quanitified, they cannot be reasoned, any basic accountant will tell you that they dont make sense. And they're bought by people who would probably admit that its a senseless purchase and thats probably why they did it.

Building a supercar is comparitively easy. In fact there are over a dozen of these little outfits each trying to convince the world that their 200+ chariot is so much better than everyone else's.

Where as its probably more difficult to build a good all round supermini or to worm your way into the family hatchback or executive saloon class of vehicle. The kind of cars where people take note of everything about it, not just how it looks or what noise it makes. The kind of people who judge a car on fuel economy, comfort, reliability, servicing costs, insurance costs etc they are much harder customers to sell a product to than an idiot with too much money to blow on some piece of rubbish.

I'd probably go as far to say that whoever designed and engineered the original Ford Focus is a more useful human being than someone who can spend an unlimited amount of money (if given an unlimited amount of money) on something which can go really fast and will probably only be suitable for around 10 customers. If Ford got any of them to make the Focus in 1998 they would probably of come up with nothing.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2011 16:37
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - dieseldogg
Ould Uncle Arthur Morton, who would be 100+if still living always said that it took less brains/ingenuity to design a Rolls Royce than the Mini.(for example)
ie If the whole cost benefit conundrum can be ignored engineering life is so much simpler.
Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2011 17:52
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - bathtub tom

>>People who own these sorts of cars, or people who own Alfa's etc all come up with the same response when its pointed out how useless they are. Its 'art'.

I suppose we could all drive around in old 35BHP Pandas. I suspect those that do point out how useles bigger, more powerful cars are, like Jags for example. ;>)

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2011 17:57
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - jamie745

That analogy doesnt even make sense. The point is if someone was to say the S-Type isnt a good car i'll respond with comments about its power, surprisingly good handling, comfort and the fact unlike an Alfa its run for a month with no trouble. I wouldnt say 'well its art so its obviously brilliant' as a pathetic means to shut down a conversation.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2011 18:09
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - unthrottled

Tracey Emin's soiled bed has also been described as 'art'...

It's just occured to me that instead of paying McLaren £30,000 to re-attach nanolayers of gold foil after 6000 miles, you could buy a genuine piece of innovative British design-a brand new Ariel Atom. It accelerates and stops quicker than the McLaren to boot.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link
Mon 8 Aug 2011 18:59
McLaren F1 - Rowan A's argument with a tree - jamie745

Tracey Emin's soiled bed has also been described as 'art'...

It's just occured to me that instead of paying McLaren £30,000 to re-attach nanolayers of gold foil after 6000 miles, you could buy a genuine piece of innovative British design-a brand new Ariel Atom. It accelerates and stops quicker than the McLaren to boot.

(Reply deleted because it included two swear words. Jamie - you have commented on my 'sticky' thread, so you have clearly read it. So stop swearing. It isn't difficult.

Edited by Avant on 08/08/2011 at 22:21

Reply | Report as offensive | Link