Intro to Diesels - what should I know? - PatriciaX
Reading the \"Driving too gently\" post, I realised that I really don\'t know much about driving a diesel. Always had petrols before.

I now know about the heating up time before you turn it over. I heard that you sould NEVER EVER let a diesel run out of gas or its an expensive Garage job (but I still don\'t know why). I now know you can\'t put any old oil in it, but thats about it. Oh and I know never to put petrol in it!!!

What else should I know. Is there any good general advise that will help me in getting used to a deisel?

Thanks

Patricia
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Intro to Deisels - what should I know? - Baskerville
Revving it hard won't necessarily get you more power. I reckon a lot of people who try diesels for the first time make this mistake and find them disappointing as a result. Figure out where the most pull is on the rev counter and aim to keep the needle in that zone while you accelerate. It won't be 5000+ as it is with most petrol engines, that's for sure. Pretty soon you'll do it without thinking (or looking).

Chris
Intro to Deisels - what should I know? - T Lucas
Don't worry about running out of fuel,if you do,just put some more in and turn the engine over on the starter and it will fire up again.If it won't start there is a pump on top of the fuel filter that you can manually pump to prime the system if required.Most definitley not a garage job!
Intro to Deisels - what should I know? - PatriciaX
Ha! Funny you should say that Chris.

I had noticed that when "flooring" it (theres a particularly BAD roundabout where you have to dart out over 3 lanes to turn right or otherwise bring your jamas for the night) where it seems to loose power fully depressed but yet picks it up if I slightly decelerate (sp?). I noticed this as it lurched forward a few times when I'd got where I wanted to be and started to lift my foot back off.

Cheers!

Patricia
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Intro to Deisels - what should I know? - RichardW
Patricia,

So you can impress(?) your friends - petrols are spark ingnition and diesels are compression igniton. This means that a petrol engine needs a spark to ignite the fuel, whereas a diesel does it simply by heating the air in the cylinder, by compressing it, to a temperature which is high enough for the diesel to spontaneously ignite. When cold the engine needs a bit of help as all the heat leaks away into the cold engine - this is what the glow plugs are for - they glow red hot and the diesel is squirted over them, causing it to go bang! A modern diesel with glow plugs in good condition should start at the first cylinder over compression - ie almost as soon as you turn the key.

Modern diesels are almost all turbo charged (yours is!) This means the exhaust gases are used to drive a compressor that forces more air into the engine: more air = can burn more diesel = more go! Turbos require good oil, changed regularly as they run very hot (700+ deg C) and very fast (100,000 rpm)! When turning the engine off, make sure it has come to idle, and do not blip the throttle - this causes the turbo to spin up and then run down with no lubrication - bad! After a long hard run (eg coming off the motorway into the services) allow the engine to drop back to idle and leave it running for a while to cool the turbo down - this prevents the oil turning to 'coal' inside the turbo - bad again.

Peak torque is usually around 2,000 rpm, so select a gear to try and drive at this engine speed where possible - this will also give you maximum available acceleration to get out of difficulty if you need it (and probably minimum fuel consumption!). Every so often take it above 4000 rpm, this frees up the engine, and helps to dislosge any soot particles in the exhaust (which otherwise build up and come out in a BIG black cloud when you do give it some welly!)

Don't worry about running out of diesel - it's not the end of the world, just a bit of an annoyance! It might start again just by cranking, but needing to prime it is more likely - diesel do not have fuel pump at the tank end, so the fuel needs to be brought up to the injection pump before it will start.

I have noticed the speed up on lift off as well, but have no real explanation for it - maybe the pump is injecting too much diesel, and the engine is choked? If you want to make a quick getaway, rev it to about 3k then let the clutch in - this will spin the turbo up and make sure you get boost and therefore acceleration when you want to!

The useable rev range is more like 2000 - 4500 rpm, with most go above 3000 rpm - if you want to press on make sure you are in a gear that puts you in this range - and change up - do not be tempted to hang on to gears as you would in a multivalve petrol - it doesn't do any good!

When manouvering no revs are necessary - just treat the clutch gently and it will go along at tick over no problems - great in traffic jams - you can drive along, feet off the pedals, at 10 mph, even uphill - give it a try! Really annoys the petrol cars, 'cos they can't do it and have to slip the clutch all the time!

Enjoy the more relaxed driving experience once you have adapted (and find you can't drive a petrol anymore - they just stall all the time - last time I tried I stalled it 3 times - getting it out of the carpark!)

Richard
Intro to Deisels - what should I know? - PatriciaX
RICHARD!!! That made SO much sense! Thank you very much. I actually understood about 99% of what you said and there was lots in there that I didn't know.

A few questions if thats ok?

"make sure it has come to idle, and do not blip the throttle " [b] What does "blip the throttle" mean? [/b].

What on earch is "Peak Torque"? Sounds like a ice-skating move to me? ;)

What do you mean by "do not be tempted to hang on to gears as you would ina multivalve petrol? I've always be taught to get into the highest gear as soon as possible (in relation to the speed you're doing) so that you're not over racing the car. Is that what you mean I should keep doing in the deisel?

I didn't know it would run so slow in traffic jams - I really do think I've been driving it like a petrol engine - will I have caused any damage? I do drive quite gently in residential areas. Im a bit of a speed-o on the m'way usually staying at 85-90 with the rev on about 3.5. However, I have found that if I do go too slowly for 2nd or 3rd gear, the red "stall" light comes on. So far, it hasn't actually cut out on me but I have changed down very quickly - hope thats ok.

Again, thanks so much, it was REALLY much appreciated!

Patricia
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Intro to Deisels - what should I know? - RichardW
>What does "blip the throttle" mean? [/b].

Pressing and quickly releasing the throttle - a few years ago it was common for people to do this as they switched off the engine - don't know why.

>What on earch is "Peak Torque"? Sounds like a ice-skating move to me? ;)

No, nothing to do with ice skating! It's the point in the rev range at which the engine is producing the most torque - in diesels this is typically around 2000 rpm and often coincides quite nicely with the lowest specific fuel consumption (unit of fuel burnt per bhp of power produced).


>do not be tempted to hang on to gears as you would ina multivalve petrol?

Holding onto gears when you accelerate and taking the engine all the way to the red line - multivalve (eg 16V) petrol engines often need revving to beyond 4000 rpm before you get any real power, so you hold the gear to the red line then change up so make sure you're still above 4k revs. Not necessary in a diesel as it will pull from 2000 rpm or so. Also diesels do not really like sustained very high revs as it tends to overheat the pistons (no cooling effect from the fuel evaporating as their is in petrol engines). Your technique sounds OK, but do not be tempted to 'labour' the engine, ie keep it going too slowly - anything below about 1500 rpm requires a down change.

3.5k on the m-way is OK, although I obviously can't condone speeding.... Getting the red lights on means you are asking too much of the engine - change down in anticipation!

Richard
Intro to Deisels - what should I know? - Dizzy {P}
Excellent write-up, Richard. There is just one thing that doesn't look quite right and you may agree with me on this or, if I've got it wrong, you might like to explain why.

Diesel fuel, like all fluids, is virtually incompressible and this attribute is vital for injection to take place. Any air in the system acts like a cushion and prevents the fuel injecting.

Injection pressures need to be anything up to 30,000 psi, or 2000 bar, and this cannot be achieved if there is air in the system. This is why it is vital to exclude all air; nothing to do with having no pump at the tank end. Also I believe that the fuel needs to be brought right up to the injector, not just to the fuel pump.

I now have a question for T Lucas regarding his/her claim that running out of fuel is no problem because you simply fill up and turn the engine over on the starter, or otherwise just use the pump on the filter. Are you SURE that this applies to ALL diesel cars? It certainly doesn't apply to a lot of industrial & construction equipment diesels where the only answer is to slacken the injection pipe at the injector end to let the air out, and even then it can be quite a long job. I do know of injection pumps that are self-priming but you still need to get the air out of the injection pipe, otherwise it just compresses and decompresses without budging. Any comments welcomed -- I'm still not too old to learn!
Intro to Deisels - what should I know? - Simon (Anne\'s Other Half)
This is really interesting, as I am needing to learn more on diesel fuel systems.

Can anyone point me towards a website with explanations of the mechanics of a diesel engine, common-rail, HDi, PD and other diesel terms.

Thanks

Simon (Anne's Other Half)
Intro to Deisels - what should I know? - Dynamic Dave
Can anyone point me towards a website with explanations of the
mechanics of a diesel engine, common-rail, HDi, PD and other
diesel terms.


www.howstuffworks.com/
Intro to Deisels - what should I know? - RichardW
Dizzy,

Yeah, I agree with the incompressibility bit, but 2000 bar is reserved for the lateset common rail etc engines - 130 - 150 is more normal for an indirect engine. Now, as to the lift of fuel, my thought is that:

a) the Diesel injection pump is closed circuit - it only pumps what it needs, if you've got to fill the entire fuel system this takes a long time (On a petrol engine the pump is massively oversized so gets the petrol up quite quickly).
b) The injection pump is a precision machine, and needs good lubrication - cranking it for ages without diesel is not going to do it any good.

I reckon that eventually you will shift the air out of the injector pipes (it can't expand backwards because the new diesel is pushing it up the pipe again!), but agree it takes a while (starting my BX TD after I had the head off took A LOT of cranking!).

Richard
Intro to Deisels - what should I know? - Ian Cook
What else should I know. Is there any good general
advise that will help me in getting used to a deisel?
Thanks
Patricia
x

>>

In addition to the other info given, I would recommend the following:

1. Don't spill diesel fuel on your clothes, shoes, or skin.
2. Be vary aware of the risks of diesel spilled on a wet garage forecourt. Diesel + rain = skating rink (can be lethal to motorcyclists).
3. Diesel usually froths when you fill the tank. Can be fiddly to brim the tank - allow extra time, and beware of blow-backs.

Enjoy

Ian Cook
Intro to Deisels - what should I know? - PatriciaX
So, Peak Torque *IS* an ice-skating move, but done on forecourts only after rain????

No wonder Im confused ;)

Thanks Ian. I hadn't noticed any frothing though. Actually, I did slip with the pump handle once and dripped a bit on the body work - I wiped it off fairly quickly but can it corrode?

Patricia
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Intro to Deisels - what should I know? - Motel
dont worry to much about diesel on the body work wipe it off should be not trouble, rember diesel is an oil based fuel
Intro to Deisels - what should I know? - BrianW
Patricia
Lots of goods tips here, but don't let it worry you too much.
As far as driving and looking after diesels there is very little difference to petrol cars apart from getting used to everything happening at slightly lower revs.

Don't lower the revs too much, though. I am trying to get my wife out of the habit of dragging ours along at 1200, where it is labouring, when it would be much happier at 1600!

I think that, re: your other thread, this is where the male/female thing may differ in that men are a little more attuned, perhaps from experience rather than genetics, to notice if a piece of machinery does not sound or feel right.
Intro to Deisels - what should I know? - googolplex
>Don't lower the revs too much, though. I am trying to get my wife out of the habit of dragging ours along at 1200, where it is labouring, when it would be much happier at 1600!

I think that, re: your other thread, this is where the male/female thing may differ in that men are a little more attuned, perhaps from experience rather than genetics, to notice if a piece of machinery does not sound or feel right.

Oooooh! You're a brave man Brian...

Tell me how you go about training your wife. Mine will not be told, even if the whole dashboard is rattling and the gear lever is banging both front seats!

Splodgeface
Intro to Diesels - what should I know? - KB.
My Mrs drives whatever car we happen to own. We've had petrol and diesel and manual and auto. You must believe me when I say that the fact than one may be petrol and the other diesel is of absolutely no consequence to her. More worthy of consideration is whether its manual or not...........she happens to favour not having to change gear since the purchase of the previous Yaris auto. The present Yaris is diesel and it matters not a jot to her.

Just remember not to put the wrong fuel in - that can be an expensive mistake!

Diesel fuel (DERV) ((Diesel Engine Road Vehicle)) smells bit more - so don't spill it, but pumps in service stations are usually clean and no problem. Its not corrosive - quite the opposite in fact. I've just filled mine up - 57.3mpg round town. I can live with that.

Personally I'm perfectly happy with diesel. It encourages a relaxed driving style due to the characteristics explained earlier ie they're flexible and tractable. Really - get what you fancy and worry not.
KB.
Intro to Diesels - what should I know? - Oz
When filling up, best also to wear a disposable plastic glove (or plastic carrier bag) on your hand when handling the fuel filler, unless you want your steering wheel and lunch also to pong of diesel!
Intro to Diesels - what should I know? - madf
I've owned diesels for 9 years. Unless you go to grotty service stations, most pumps are clean and you will not cover your hands with diesel.

Other tips? They have a starting heater (glowplugs), usually shown with a red warning light when you switch on the ignition. Only attempt to start it when the light goes out.. but some don't (Audi ) so read your handbook!

You MUST service them regularly..
madf
Intro to Diesels - what should I know? - Oz
Whether the garage is grotty or clean, diesel has a mild but poor, gut-wrenching smell, and very low (or nil) evaporation rate. Even at Sainsburys it takes only one user who is either kack-handed or has his knuckles dragging on the ground, to contaminate the pump for the benefit of all followers.
Intro to Diesels - what should I know? - Blue {P}
My dad has consistently put me off getting a Diesel, going on about getting messed up when filling it etc. so I was a little aprehensive when I got a Diesel courtesy car, but I was surprised, the pump at Asda was no different to the ordinary petrol one. :)

Blue
Intro to Diesels - what should I know? - Dynamic Dave
Diesel, the pump at Asda was no different to the ordinary petrol one.


I must be getting old. I can remember when Diesel pumps were kept well away from the Petrol pumps as they were considered dirty and only to be used by white van men and HGV drivers :o)
Intro to Diesels - what should I know? - PatriciaX
Dirty, greasy handles?

I've never had any trouble filling up mi diesel. Hadn't even considered that it would be any different to filling up with unleaded. No Christina-Aguilera here.

Please tell me what torque is?

Patricia
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Intro to Diesels - what should I know? - BrianW
In simple terms, torque is the amount of "pull" that an engine can exert.
Intro to Diesels - what should I know? - jeds
I have had VW diesel and now have Audi - both are instant start. No waiting. I would check the manual because Audi actually advise against it.

I ran out twice in the VW and got going easily by turning the engine and pumping the peddle.

Diesels are fine, they just take a bit of adjustment to get used to. Which applies to any new car really.
Intro to Diesels - what should I know? - TrevorP
"I have had VW diesel and now have Audi both are instant start. No waiting. I would check the manual because Audi actually advise against it."

Well, -ish.

I believe they actually say in above +5C ambient temperatures, the engine can be started immediately without preglow.

Intro to Diesels - what should I know? - Armitage Shanks{P}
On the GM 2.2 diesel the glow plugs don't come on at all if the temp is above 0 Centigrade. This is in a Saab where I suppose 0 degs is a warm day and the glow plugs are needed at minus 30!