Other than Driver Neglect, misuse or damage - Can someone explain why clutchs "fail" - dieseldogg

I cannot fathom why there appears to be this persistent myth that a clutch should be expected to fail, especially if towing a caravan.

From my experience one merely slips the clutch the absolute minimum at low revs to get moving with almost neglegible wear, even when "towing".

Then ALL other gear changes should involve virtually no slippage since any competent driver will match gears against revs.

As opposed to using the clutch as a pesudo torque convertor.

Comments please

PS

Currently got 234,000 on the origional Galaxy clutch with absolutly No signs of wear or slippage

Edited by dieseldogg on 04/05/2011 at 15:36

Other than Driver Neglect, misuse or damage - Can someone explain why clutchs "fail" - jc2

Very few drivers are competent-just listen as you walk along a road.-on the throttle before they release the clutch.

Other than Driver Neglect, misuse or damage - Can someone explain why clutchs "fail" - galileo

Very few drivers are competent-just listen as you walk along a road.-on the throttle before they release the clutch.

Not to mention those who 'hold' cars on the clutch, e.g. facing uphill at red traffic lights, instead of using the handbrake and a proper hill-start.

Other than Driver Neglect, misuse or damage - Can someone explain why clutchs "fail" - bonzo dog

Hi DD

with almost neglegible wear

as you say yourself, they wear

Other than Driver Neglect, misuse or damage - Can someone explain why clutchs "fail" - sb10

They don`t always fail because of slippage, weak components they are made up from can let them down as some old Vauxhall presure plates used to give in,and so did the release bearing very poor materials years ago

Mind you so much is made of plastic now

Other than Driver Neglect, misuse or damage - Can someone explain why clutchs "fail" - NARU
From my experience one merely slips the clutch the absolute minimum at low revs to get moving with almost neglegible wear, even when "towing".

Most trailer/caravan reversing systems initially apply the trailer brakes, the car then has to press through this before the trailer reversing mechanism kicks in. Works well when properly adjusted and the driver knows what they're doing - but can cause the clutch to smell.

But what do I know - I've never worn out a clutch, even towing a caravan (though I now tow with an automatic - much easier!)

Other than Driver Neglect, misuse or damage - Can someone explain why clutchs "fail" - Bedhead

Some clutches are just not up to the job, the clutch for the last of the 1.8 Vectras is only 3mm bigger than that in a 1.0 Corsa, in a car weighing far more and producing over twice the power. A lot of clutch failures are due to the release bearing breaking up, the wee tiny bearings in PSA cars get the awards for most useless bearing, nearly ever 406 90bhp HDI I come across has had the bearing sieze and eat its way through the diaphragm fingers. Some Fiats also have a huge stupid plastic release bearing, they come out in a mass of melted goo.

By far the toughest clutches I see are the older Toyota ones, proper metal release bearings, clips on the pressure plate to pull the face back instead of relying on the drive straps and the diaphragms never apear to wear. Good workmanship!

Other than Driver Neglect, misuse or damage - Can someone explain why clutchs "fail" - dieseldogg

Sniff!

Hubris strikes,............... the steering rack just failed in der Galaxy, I had hoped it was only the pump & I would have bunged a second hand one on, but sigh, a new or refurb? steering rack just might be the final straw fininancially, 7 months left on her MOT too.

Other than Driver Neglect, misuse or damage - Can someone explain why clutchs "fail" - injection doc

Causes of clutch failure , just a few more other than misuse , although a few cross paths

Diaphram spring breaks, 2 Diaphram finger snap due to release bearing wearing through spring fingers ! normally caused my mal adjustment or constantly sitting with foot on pedal or long periods at Traffic lights and junctions ! 3 Torsional strap failure due to bump starts ! 4 Failure due to oil contamination 6 Centre plate spring failure due to iether bad driving or engine missfire, sometimes caused my recon units having been fitted with old torsional springs ! 7 failure of clutches due to poor build quality, normally remanufactuered or recon units that have been poorly built ! 8 Water ingress due to driving through floods

Other than Driver Neglect, misuse or damage - Can someone explain why clutchs "fail" - focussed

I can throw some light on this discussion as I have recently had the clutch and flywheel replaced on my 07 2.2 Honda Civic type s just at the end of the 3 year warranty at 24000 miles. The DMF was replaced at the same time and I had the opportunity to inspect the failed parts.The clutch had started slipping in 4-5-6 gears between 2000- 2500 rpm.I should add here that I bought the car in UK from a Honda dealer as a pre reg with 9 miles on it and exported it to France where I live now. Having been forwarned of likely problems getting the job done in the UK, large deposit up front, photographs of failed components sent to Honda UK usually try to blame the driver etc etc I was well pleased to get the job done for free.The foreman at the Honda dealer said "if I say it's warranty-it's warranty!" i looked at the failed parts-no sign of any wear at all. The point of this ramble over the keyboard is that we were told HUK got the clutch spec wrong in the first place. the new unit has much more bite and a totally different feel, so it's not always the drivers fault!

Other than Driver Neglect, misuse or damage - Can someone explain why clutchs "fail" - dieseldogg

Actually erm that reminds me my origional wee Renault 5 had the thrust bearing replaced at 40,000, clutch was perfect mind.

PS

All good stuff as above, I must unfortunately run across some proper driving dorks in the course of my work as excessive revving, riding the clutch etc etc seem to be regarded as "normal" & unavoidable.

Plus reading some of the stories in the HJ motoring section in the Saturday Telegraph

*********************************

PS a steering rack only be's £170 + £100 to fit so until she needs a timing belt?......Hmmmmm finger crossed there

We are therefore apparently back in business.

I am by the way finally realizing the true cost of running an older high milage car, but hey it amuses me

Anyway I have her entered for the Local Council run Classic Car run in June.

10 years & older , so both her and the Steyr Puch are going..........Hey! its free to enter

PPPS

They are going to run as brung ie stinking dirty, complete with dents & dings

tee hee

Edited by dieseldogg on 05/05/2011 at 11:41

Other than Driver Neglect, misuse or damage - Can someone explain why clutchs "fail" - brum

OP obviously gloating at his own highly honed skill and mechanical sympathy. Such irony that the power steering fails shortly afterwards ;)

There is no myth - clutches fail simply because of "wear and tear"

The pre DMF 1.9tdi in the galaxy has a reasonably well designed and dimensioned clutch and a lowish first gear. The engine is also a slogger - pulling well from idle revs - so a rapid full engagement of the clutch is possible avoiding slip.

Other engines, particularly petrol need much more slipping to get a car/caravan moving.

Yes mechanical sympathy can make a tremendous difference, as can driving on motorways vs inner city use - but the OPs statement that there was "No signs of wear or slippage" is BS. Strip the clutch and measure the lining.

If the OP did 234,000 miles of inner city driving then that might be impressive....

On the other hand power steering shouldnt fail - possibly due to "Driver Neglect, misuse or damage"??

;)

btw Brakes and clutches are classed as "wear and tear" items and are usually excluded from a vehicle warranty.

Edited by brum on 05/05/2011 at 11:47

Other than Driver Neglect, misuse or damage - Can someone explain why clutchs "fail" - dieseldogg

(i)

Whilst my driving is not inner city I spent most of the Galaxys 234 k miles on very mixed driving, stop start through urban areas across kerbs and sports pitchs/amenity grass etc etc with my work, a bit of very part time "farming" privately, house building forby

So she was well worked

(ii) I was aware of the different performance characcteristics of petrol vis-a-vis diesel, hence i chose to drive diesel

(iii) Erm, who volunteered the steering rack failure??

I will be asking the mechanic as to the likely cause as I have:

(a) never overloaded the steering, ie never lock to lock whilst stationary

(b) or had the pump squealing due to pulling the wheel against the stop.

All simple basic mechanical sympthay gleaned from a small farm upbringing

Cheers

& Unruffled

Other than Driver Neglect, misuse or damage - Can someone explain why clutchs "fail" - dieseldogg

"but the OPs statement that there was "No signs of wear or slippage" is BS."

Erm................... Where did I say this?

I somewhat loosley comment that the Renault 5 clutch was "perfect" at 40 K, by which I meant I could discern no wear with my naked eye, and this gauged when alongside a replacment clutch, so less than 0.5mm gone (perhaps, max)

And again, quite unfuffled, (& I been off the medication for ages btw).

Edited by dieseldogg on 05/05/2011 at 13:48

Other than Driver Neglect, misuse or damage - Can someone explain why clutchs "fail" - brum

"but the OPs statement that there was "No signs of wear or slippage" is BS."

Erm................... Where did I say this?

"Currently got 234,000 on the origional Galaxy clutch with absolutly No signs of wear or slippage"

Take your Galaxy clutch apart and measure the lining on the pressure plate to start with - I doubt its remotely the same thickness as new.

Your comment about your steering habits border on the neurotic. I was jesting about the "Driver Neglect, misuse or damage", calm down dear.......You have illustrated "wear and tear" in action!

And stop crowing on about good you are with clutches, so are millions of other drivers.

Other than Driver Neglect, misuse or damage - Can someone explain why clutchs "fail" - dieseldogg

OK so my choice of works was subject to misinterpation, I would have hoped that taken in context it was clear that since I had never had the clutch out of the old girl, I could not comment on actual wear, hence my comment no apparent wear or slippage.

My reason for posting was simply that at 53 years of age I have grown weary of being told that ,....... riding the clutch......... keeping ons foot ever so lightly on the clutch............... resting ones hand on the gear lever etc etc etc.

Makes no difference whatsoever............Clutchs always need replaced.......especially when towing/ loader work with a tractor......blagh blagh blagh.

And when I am responsible for a wheen of Vans Lorries, tractors, lawnmowers etc (Local Authority) it gets a kinda pertinent & expensive.

So you see I try & lead by example.

***************************

I do neglect misue and damage machinery too,( my own, owned only) mostly when the red mist decends when driving the old DB tractor and asking her to perform beyond her abilities.

But hey I "fess up" to most of my foibles.

It appears that others are too ready to blame the machinery/ car/technology............for their failings.

That is all.

Edited by dieseldogg on 06/05/2011 at 11:59