Citroen C5 - Garage Problems - Brooklyn Heights

Hi I'm looking for advice.

I took my car in for Head Gasket repair to an independent garage 3 weeks ago and was told it ould take about a week and a price was agreed. After about 5 days the garage phoned to say they had done the agreed repair but now they could not get the hydraulic suspension system to raise and the car was stuck on their ramp. I assured them there was nothing wrong with the suspension system when the car was brought into the garage. The garage owner said it was nothing they had done there.

During week 2 they had no further success and booked the car into Citroen Dealer (in the town where I live) for them to diagnose the fault. The car had to be taken off the ramp and put on a trailer to be transported from one garage to another. Asked about courtesy car and was told usually he could give me one but family were away in it at the moment.

Monday - Week 3 car arrives at Citroen, on the Thursday not heard anything from original garage so popped into Citroen Dealer who told me they looked at it the day before - car needs new part to control suspension which would cost £1,100 and they had informed the garage the day before.

I was annoyed the garage had not been in touch to let me know. Went to have a look at my car which looks in a sorry state with the back up really high and the front virtually on the floor. Noticed damage under front bumper probably caused when being removed from ramp or trailer used for transport.

Went home and phoned garage owner who said he didn't want to pay for the repairs and did not accept fault. I told him again that the hydraulic syspension system was fine before he had it and I was also not happy that the front bumper was damaged and heavens knows what else under there. He eventually agreed to phone Citroen and authorise the repair and agreed to fix the bumper and replace the undercover which is still in his garage.

Week 4 - Citroen to do repair. I am not really happy for the original garage to take the car back there as I have no confidence in them now. Can I ask Citroen to check for any other damage and fix and bill the garage owner. Also due to all the inconvenience, the fact I have been without a car for 3 weeks already and the fact I am not confident about the original repair do I have to pay him for the job it went in for in the first place.

I would really appreciate some advice.

Citroen C5 - Garage Problems - LucyBC
As HJ has told you:

£500 for a head gasket is dirt cheap. The work could not have destroyed the hydractive pump, so that must have been close to failure anyway. The failure of the pump prevented the car from being removed from the ramp because the suspension could not pump itself up to ride height.

You cannot take a car to a small garage for a £500 repair on which he may have made maybe £100, then expect the garage owner to fork out for another repair costing £1,100 +. You need to discuss this with the garage owner.
Citroen C5 - Garage Problems - Brooklyn Heights

As HJ has told you: £500 for a head gasket is dirt cheap. The work could not have destroyed the hydractive pump, so that must have been close to failure anyway. The failure of the pump prevented the car from being removed from the ramp because the suspension could not pump itself up to ride height. You cannot take a car to a small garage for a £500 repair on which he may have made maybe £100, then expect the garage owner to fork out for another repair costing £1,100 +. You need to discuss this with the garage owner.

Thanks for your reply. Having obtained several quotes from independent garages for Head Gasket £500 - £600 seems to be the norm in this area. I have been advised by another garage that it is possible the suspension unit could have been damaged during the work. Doesn't your advice rather contradict you reply to the thread below on 8th Sept 2010:

faults after repairs - concrete

Recently my wife pranged both off side doors thanks to those stupid steel bollards that are only about a metre high and cannot readily be seen (Sainburys). I had to claim as it meant 2 new doors and a whole side respray, about £1800 quids worth. When I collected my car it looked great and still does, however that is not the problem. Ever since collecting it, every time I start the engine the computer flashes an audible and visual warning that I have a lights failure(Skoda/VW technology) All the lights work perfectly so the problem is non existent but still very annoying. I persevered for a couple weeks or so, thinking the computer glich will go away, no such luck. Then I had to return the car for the new doors to be adjusted. I pointed out the light failure problem and they said they would investigate. When I collected the car the problem was still there and they said they checked all the connections which are fine but could not cure the problem. They said they would book it into a main dealer for a dignostic check but if the fault was nothing to do with them I would have to pay for it all. I pointed out the fault was not there prior to their work on the car, so ergo they must have caused it however innocently. Also who decides who caused the problem? A stalemate at present. I now have to return my car again to have a door gaiter refitted and would like to confront them again about this problem. I really would like to know where I stand and would I be chasing shadows. They certainly contributed to the problem when they worked on the car as the problem was not there prior to that. Do they have an obligation to return my car in the same state of operation as when they received it? A little tester for the remarkable LucyBC me thinks! Any sensible comments welcome. Concrete

If it went in fault free and comes back with a fault then there is an assumption that it resulted from some action consequential from their undertaking the other repair and hence it is their responsibility to fix it.

Citroen C5 - Garage Problems - LucyBC

In Concrete's case the repair caused the problem.

HJ believes that fixing a head gasket would not result in a failure of suspension and hence the two issues are likely to be unconnected.

Furthermore in Concrete's case the issue was dealt with under the insurance claim. In your case you are expecting a garage to complete (or fund) an £1100 additional repair job on another matter which is probably unrelated. Unless you can show the garage's negligence caused the suspension failure it is unlikely that a court would support any claim against them.

Citroen C5 - Garage Problems - Paris

I feel I have to contradict the legal advice you have been given here as it is not correct. By replacing a head gasket the garage could have fried the suspension electronics due to lack of care, and by the sound of it the garage has not taken reasonable care and skill of your car, as you have other damage caused due to them removing car from ramp etc.

Garages have a duty of care while your vehicle is in their possesion.

"Supply of Goods & Services Act 1982"

That the supplier will carry out the service with reasonable care and skill.

That the work will be carried out in reasonable time (unless timeframe has been specifically agreed).

That the work will be carried out at reasonable cost (unless cost has been specifically agreed.

I would say the garage has failed in their duty under this act and you have every right to have the garage repair your car at their expence.

I would contact trading standards, I think they would advise you to start a claim through the courts. You would also to entitled to claim any expences ie car hire as they have not returned your car in a reasonal amount of time.

I hope this has been some help regarding your situation and hope it gets sorted soon.

Citroen C5 - Garage Problems - LucyBC
Hi Paris,

That's an interesting interpretation.

Clearly if the garage had not acted with "reasonable care and skill" they would be negligent - but the OP would need to prove this.

Otherwise the repairer can fix the problem for which they have been contracted and reasonably expect payment for it.

Thus if the diagnosis is a failure of a head gasket and he quotes (and completes) that repair then he can bill and expect to be paid for his work. If he fails to complete the task competently and with "reasonable care and skill" (which causes another problem) then subsequently he can be sued for the consequences.

But if there appears to have been other unrelated, or undiscovered or developing problems during the repair then the repairer would not be liable for fixing them.

In those circumstances the repairer would be expected to report back to the customer and ask if they wished to proceed with further work (and would normally offer a price for their doing so). Or the car could be returned to them with the diagnosed fault fixed but the undiagnosed fault not fixed. At his stage it would be reasonable for the garage to seek payment on the work undertaken or a lien on the value.

I am not sufficiently technically competent to establish whether a head gasket repair might lead to a suspension failure - I would be relying on an expert's report as to whether that might be the case. But at the risk of invoking Honest John's automatic censorship they seem to be as connected as an ass and an elbow.

So Paris saying that "the garage has failed in their duty under this act and you have every right to have the garage repair your car at their expence (sic)" is bad advice.

There are complex legal issues here and the result could go anywhere - and significant costs and damages could be awarded - in either direction.

The reality is that if it ever comes to trial the judge is likely to be knocking heads together.

My advice to Brooklyn Heights would be to pay the original garage the £500 for sorting the head gasket and then examine what caused the suspension failure - reserving the right to act on the information (and claim back) if necessary.

My advice to "Paris" would be to get some "cop on" as to how the world works -- and to buy yourself a dictionary.

Edited by LucyBC on 15/09/2010 at 18:25

Citroen C5 - Garage Problems - Paris

Hi, Lucy BC, I still disagree, as Brooklyn stated "there was damage under front bumper probably caused when being removed from ramp or trailer used for transport." This in its self suggests the garage has not taken care with the car. Also the amount of time taken to do this job suggests that the car was not done in a reasonable time. The garage should also make a report as to the condition of the the car when it arrived at the garage, assuming they did this, they would not have been able to get the car onto the ramp if there was a fault with the cars hydraulics.

When removing a head gasket you would have to dismantle quite a bit of the car engine to do the job. Hydraulic pumps do not just go down sitting on a ramp. That is like saying a washing machine pump would just brake even if it wasn't plugged in.

I will buy a dictionary and I suggest you get "sufficiently technically competent"!

Citroen C5 - Garage Problems - LucyBC
Point taken but the original questions were:

1. "Can I ask Citroen to check for any other damage and fix and bill the garage owner?"

The answer is: no you cannot. The original garage agreed to fix the bodywork damage caused by the suspension failure and they must be permitted to do so. He cannot just book it into with the second garage and send the first garage the bill. He certainly cannot bind them to an additional (and open-ended) commitment to fix "any other damage".

2. "Also due to all the inconvenience, the fact I have been without a car for 3 weeks already and the fact I am not confident about the original repair do I have to pay him for the job it went in for in the first place."

The answer is that if he fixed the head gasket yes you do.
Citroen C5 - Garage Problems - Collos25

If when removing the head they inadvertantly disturbed or accidently slackened one of the many hydraulic pipes that are in the way then the suspension would collapse.When working with C5's it is normal for the vehicle to be jacked up on the body and let all four wheels hang failure to do so results in the above problems.In this case but not very often HJ is wrong.