Why do the likes of Tiff Needell, etc, think they can drive faster with the TC switched off, whereas all the Formula 1 cars have it switched on?
Is it purely for TV footage so you can see how wonderful Tiff, etc, are at coming out of a bend sideways with the rear tyres smoking? Or is it actually true that you can go faster with it switched off?
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I think that when the traction cuts in, it does so for too long. Without it you (should be able to) realise what is going on, lift off (or whatever) and then carry on those few milliseconds quicker.
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CM's explanation doesn't cover why F1 drivers are faster with TC than without. I think Tiff would go faster if he left TC on, but it wouldn't look so dramatic to film.
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Traction control does not make a car come out of a bend any faster than a skilled driver can, any more than ABS can stop the wheels locking better than expert use of the brakes. What it does is eliminate the margin for error. A racing driver can floor the throttle on the apex of a corner on a wet track and not risk spinning the wheels. Without the TC a tenth of a second too early on the power and its the tyre wall and race over.
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Unless people are driving far too fast for the road surface conditions, you shouldn't need TC. I have mine switched off in the BMW and will probably only switch it on when it gets frosty.
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Would it not be prudent, if you have TC, to have it switched on all the time?
I appreciate that you probably won't activate it in "normal" circumstances but isn't that the point - none of us roadusers can foresee when the unexpected will happen and when it does wouldn't it be better to have the additional safety that TC can provide.
Some manufacturers, which market the "driving/ handling/ performance" aspects of their products, give the option of switching on/off the TC mainly to keep the marketing men happy -
As TC is seen to dilute the driving experience, though in reality this is the "on-the-limit" experience and not in normal driving.
Chad.R
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Chad R. No I don't think it prudent to drive with the TC on all the time. For one you can normally tell when condition REALLY require the TC unless you are driving with excessive speed.
I also think it best to conserve parts or switchable software instead of keeping them operational all the time.
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No I don't think it prudent to drive with the TC on all the time. I also think it best to conserve parts or switchable software instead of keeping them operational all the time.
But what happens when you go to switch the TC on one day and it doesn't work? That might be the day that you were relying on it to save your life.
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Unfortunately I think you are assuming that the two systems are the same because they are both called the same thing. In reality TC for F1 and road cars are different animals. It's all down to the programming. F1 TC is designed to make the car faster, whereas road car TC is designed to make the car safer by elliminating the margin for error made by an unwary driver. On most road car systems they cut the power (or some other intervention) when wheel drift is detected - however you do go round corners faster with some drift, but a high level of skill (not present in the general driving population) is required to achieve this. Watch the WRC and see how many drivers have their cars pointing the way they want to go long before they reach the exit of the corner (especially on the loose stuff). This is one of the reasons RWD is much more fun - you can steer the car using the power (even 4WD rally cars often have 60 - 80 % of the power coming out the rear).
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I leave TC switched off in my Vectra GSi when I am driving quickly.
If I come out of a slow corner with TC switch on, and press the throttle just hard enough to activiate it, the result is 'chug chug chug' (literally) for a good second or two, and no accelaration AT ALL. The effect is the same (and sounds the same) as if I had whipped of five out of six plug leads.
If I switch TC off however, I feel the tyre start to loose grip, and finely modulate the throttle pedal to keep going at speed unabated.
That's when I'm gaving fun, but there is also a safety related time when it is better to have TC deactivated in my car:
If I am pulling out of a side road in the wet, and turning right, it is very easy with the amount of instant torque I have to spin the inside front wheel. With TC 'On', the result is a car chugging along at half a mile an hour, that refuses to accelarate for the afore mentioned second or two, with traffic by now bearing down on me from both directions.
With TC 'Off', I feel the spin, back off *instantly*, before reapplying more gentle power, and keep accelarating almost as fast as in the dry.
To conclude: In my experience, Road car TC is overkill, because it has to be able to help the most inexperienced person who can get behind the wheel. F1 TC however works at processing speeds beyond production cars, and to more finely honed tolerances, so that power is only interrupted for the minimum time. Additionally, F1 cars have motion sensors to tell the TC which direction the car is sliding in, as well as the fact that the wheels are spinning.
/Steve
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Smartly entering empty roundabout on dry road I hit patch of diesel.TC snapped me back on track & I made my designated exit unscathed.
Unquestionably, I would not have made it with TC off.
Simon T.
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Back to the question, if it's faster with TC off, why do F1 cars/drivers have TC and use it?
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Oh yes, I've got TC on my car but it's always operational. The only time it has ever operated, flashing the dash light, was on a very wet cattle grid on a 1 in 8 in the Lake District, but then I try to drive sensibly.
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I'm sure someone may correct me if I'm wrong but the main reason for TC on F1 cars is .....
A F1 car will work most efficiently when the rear wheels are spinning slightly faster than the front - something like 10%. So the TC will alter the power/torque to maintain this ratio.
PS. Launch control also uses aspects of the TC but is basically a electronic version of "dumping the clutch".
Chad.R
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To be honest you get exactly the same ignorant comnments in the world of motorcycling.
Despite accident reports and extensive stop tests that show ABS is highly effective in ABNORMAL road conditions and could prevent a quarter of bike accidents, the dogmatic still chant that they they stop better without it.
A lot of bike crashes are caused by either locking either wheel or perhaps more pertinently not applying sufficient force for FEAR of locking the front wheel.
Every test shows ABS stops slightly longer in the dry and on average 50% shorter in the wet. The ONLY time ABS is a liability is on deep gravel or continuous snow/ice when you might ask the question what am I doing on a bike ?
I've never heard of a parallel since the campaign to prevent compulsory use of seatbelts.
Together with the traction/DCS/ESP debate it all reduces to the "I'm better than average" paradox. It seems we're all elite drivers. Which is nice.
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"the "I'm better than average" paradox. It seems we're all elite drivers. Which is nice."
Absolutely.
OR the "We are all idiots - it's only the degree of idiocy displayed that varies"
- which is my attitude.
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I certainly notice a detramental difference with DSTC switched off, especially around roundabouts, so I leave it on all the time now, I'd rather be safe than sorry!
Food for thought. How would you stand if you had an accident with the swithced TC off and subsequently it was found that if it had been switched on it would have prevented the loss of control of the vehicle, thereby avoiding the accident?
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Excellent point ... one for the legal minds !
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