Something interesting happened a few threads down when a discussion on 'Car Leasing Sites' was started by dezz.
HJ invited comments on a company called Ling's Cars and about thirty comments were made by Ling's customers, many of whom, like me, registered on this website for the first time. A couple of commenters 'got the hump' and HJ also felt he had 'got enough' comments, so the thread was locked.
This statement by Jack_K is fundamentally incorrect correct. What I posted was "People have been recommending www.lingscars.com . Ling Valentine certainly recommends herself. If anyone has had dealings with Ling then I'd appreciate feedback, by e-mail with the sender's snail mail address to letters@honestjohn.co.uk (I won't pick it up from the Backroom)." How much clearer could I have been? I definitely did not ask for responses in The Backroom. Since then I've had multiple e-mails without addresses, so double the work. And the Backroom has been swamped with responses. HJ.
Now, any normal web-savvy business or site would love to have new members sign up and make comments about something they feel passionate about. They would absolutely kill to have them referred by another website for free - most have to pay thousands of pounds to Google and the like for the privilege.
The idea that you would shut comments on a thread at the behest of two or three 'long term' commenters is positively feudal in web terms. Is this symptomatic of the fact that many in the motor trade are 'lightyears' behind when it comes to the internet?
Edited by Honestjohn on 17/02/2010 at 13:05
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Lightyears behind? No just dont like being spammed.
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In my view the motortrade have no idea.
I buy my Toyota parts. Can I buy them on-line?
Yes... fro a non Toyota dealer.From a Toyota dealer? No.
My local Toyota dealer Pinkstones are excellent at service and offer discounted deals on service parts from time to time.
Do they advertise it? NO
Do they email to tell me? No.
Edited by madf on 17/02/2010 at 11:49
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Do they email to tell me? No.
Be grateful. If they did, maybe you would get 50 emails by the end of the day telling you how wonderful they were
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HJ invited, quite reasonably, comments via email.
What he got were a large number of comments, presumably co-ordinated or solicited in some way, in unbelievably glowing terms within a remarkably short time.
In other words SPAM.
Internet forums, IMHO, are a bit like a big virtual pub chat where new members are always welcome, but a steady stream of 20 people in a short time interrupting the flow of conversation to suggest we try the restaurant up the road if we want a great meal etc would become very annoying very quickly, which was just the effect these comments had on me.
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My recollection is that someone asked for advice on where to lease a car, and the thread was virtually hijacked by advocates of Lings, quite a few of whom appeared to register solely to show their support. Having thereby 1) expressed their support for Lings and 2) effectively swamped any other sensible discussion, HJ took the decision to close the thread. There's only so many times people want to read the same thing.
The thread has remained visible, and HJ has invited others who wish to comment to email him. The decision to lock the thread was HJs , for the reasons he wrote in the thread, and was not at the behest of the "long term commenters" I don't see a problem with that.
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I do wonder if this thread was set up to continue the "good work" for them...
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Jack (and everyone), this is Ling.
I will not comment on the other thread or this forum because it will annoy HJ. Except to say that he "did ask" for comments about my business on the other thread.
This statement by Ling is not correct. What I posted was "People have been recommending www.lingscars.com . Ling Valentine certainly recommends herself. If anyone has had dealings with Ling then I'd appreciate feedback, by e-mail with the sender's snail mail address to letters@honestjohn.co.uk (I won't pick it up from the Backroom)." How much clearer could I have been? I definitely did not ask for responses in The Backroom. Since then I've had multiple e-mails without addresses, so double the work. And the Backroom has been swamped with responses. HJ.
Regards the motor trade in general, no, they don't get the internet.
This is revolutionising business in the UK (and World) and yet the motor industry in general is avoiding it like the plague. Sure, dealers have websites, but they are flat, non-interactive, unmanned, usually out of date and static affairs.
The reason is, in general, they are frightened of it and are blind to the possibilities. When you go to a franchised dealer, you are almost trapped on the physical brick site. They can control, manipulate and process the enquiry, often using well known techniques to maximise profit, retain people in the showroom, etc. Try to get a simple price from a dealer and you will be frustrated. Try to "walk" and they will use many processes to prevent that. You are in a captive environment.
The internet is far more transparent. The customer is in control, can research freely wherever they choose and cannot easily be manipulated. It is a far more intelligent approach. Interest in companies is created on merit and websites like this one, and MSE (for example), and by using transparent searches like Google, information can easily be gathered to clearly show how good (or bad) a supplier is. Prices are out in the open, and can clearly be compared (usually).
Still, the motor industry insists on trying to control people using the web. We see many motor trade companies using illegal techniques on the internet to disguise true prices. Many competitors of mine operate illegally, displaying ex-VAT prices to consumers, clearly breaking the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, which is a criminal offence. Many car brokers and franchised dealers do this (no names, to avoid the post being removed although why I cannot see why criminally guilty parties should not be named, but no naming and shaming is da rulez here).
Many hide fees and do not display complete prices. Many (including many franchised car dealers) show completely out of date info due to basic laziness. Many manufacturer sites are bland, very difficult to communicate with and have incomplete information. The lack of enthusiasm is noticable.
Very few motor trade companies comply with data protection, using email attachment for sensitive documents is not "best practice" as required by UK law. Anyone without an encoded password protected secure online communication system for personal data and documents is compliant is not safeguarding personal info and allowing fraud to propagate. This includes 99% of the UK Motor Trade.
Interactivity and communication is lacking on the web in the Motor Industry. When you see a website with a big phone number, you know it is nothing more than an online advert. When communication is being revolutionised by Twitter, social networks, forums, collaborative tools like Google wave and mobile phone apps and such, to rely on a massive phone number (so they can control the enquiry on their terms) or an "email me" link which gets a response in an average 24 hours (Automotive Management survey) is just useless to most web users.
Will the industry change? Probably slowly, but while most insist on massive "disclaimers" which say that the email is not valid in 10,000 words (would they ever put that on letterheads?) and don't trust staff to manage online activity in any creative or immediate fashion... there is not much prospect for the motor industry "getting" the internet.
Which is probably why I (a mental Chinese immigrant bird with no franchise) won the NatWest/BT Business Award for IT and Communications in 2009. Because in general, the rest of the industry is pretty useless. Customers are MILES ahead of the motor industry, Jack. It is like dealing with dinosaurs in Jurassic Motor Park.
Ling
Edited by Honestjohn on 17/02/2010 at 12:52
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The internet is far more transparent.
Enabling us to immediately spot a blatant use of spam which stuck out a mile and has now probably created a considerable amount of damage to the reputation of the business
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I've just had a quick look at the Wiki definition of spam:
'Spam is the abuse of electronic messaging systems (including most broadcast media, digital delivery systems) to send unsolicited bulk messages indiscriminately'
I didn't see Ling's satisfied customers as spamming the backroom. I'm assuming each message was from a separate individual.
Part of me found the deluge of messages on that thread a bit irritating and part of me can only admire a business which seems to be achieving such high levels of customer satisfaction. I was pretty impressed with what I'd seen of Ling's site already and the contributions to the 'other' thread have made me more likely to become one of her customers at some point.
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Well, that's the most useful reply I've seen in this thread (or even generally for some time) - thank you.
Edited by FotheringtonThomas on 17/02/2010 at 12:29
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Please, can the bitter forum groupies just move on? I refuse to be drawn into how my customers are happy to rally to support me.
Move on, please. No arguments.
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A swift change of tune when damage is mentioned.
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I read the locked thread and Ling's response.
I found both perfectly acceptable. Ling's response above is 100% spot on in my view..
The motor industry is full of practises involving locking customers in - not through better service or prices- but old fashioned and out of date "keep them in the dark" tactics.
It does not work... customers are not that stupid.. Well... not all of them..
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I was once told by Ling on another site that there is now way she would ever lease a car to me!
I like Ling's personal touch to the business and it appears to be working but the website is being used for all the wrong reasons but if it works who is anybody to argue.
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Moving away slightly from this bun-fight, I was actually going to post a thread on this, but never quite got around to it.
I don't think that the motor trade get the internet at all - however I haven't worked out yet whether it's malice or tortoise-like speed that's the problem.
I actually disagree with Ling about manufacturer websites. I find them clunky and over the top - too heavily reliant on Flash which makes it hard to step back and forth. I don't want massive videos and swooping animations in my car configurator. I just want a simple description and for it to work!
I think where main dealers are really bad is in the service/parts department, as another poster mentioned earlier. Why can my local SEAT dealer not publish the service intervals for all of its cars plus the price for the service? My local VAG independent can. But then, I think this is where malice comes into it. I would much rather my main dealer give me their first and final price, but instead I have to phone up to get a price, phone round other dealers in the area, phone back again and knock them down on price AND then bat them away when they suggest extras such as air-con cleaners and new wipers etc. etc. Obviously they know that not everyone will do this, so they get more money from those who are too shy/naive to barter.
Also, when it comes to booking a service/MOT, why can't I do it all online. Surely I should be able to enter my registration number and postcode and select a day and time for my service, plus any extras such as whether a courtesy car is required etc. It really would not be difficult to do, and it would make life much easier. Maybe I'll make a website myself and charge them for the privilege ;-)
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As you know I am tinking of buying a brand new car, I looked all the websites and in the end I resorted to buying a car magazine so I could compare the specs. It was taking me about 10 minutes on each website just to find out if the car had electric windows or not!
I don't want to see lots of flash I can see the car in the showroom. I just want a quick and easy website but car manufacturers are not complying.
FIATs website is the worst, too little information and far too much pointless animations and flashy things.They see the internet has just another brochure and it makes it pointless. It is about time marketers realised that websites are not the same as print materials and shoudln't be used as a replacement for printed media.
Edited by Rattle on 17/02/2010 at 12:48
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Why can my local SEAT dealer not publish the service intervals for all of its cars plus the price for the service?
My nearest Suzuki dealer does publish service info + price in a big white board on the premise. I can still haggle though.
All car handbooks do contain service interval and list of things need to be changed.
when it comes to booking a service/MOT, why can't I do it all online
You can with some dealers. It hardly matters as you can always ring them and book within 5 minutes.
It was taking me about 10 minutes on each website just to find out if the car had electric windows or not!
Easiest way to get it is to download PDF brochures from their sites and check the detailed specification pages.
Edited by movilogo on 17/02/2010 at 12:53
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Ling, i wish you all the best with revolutionising the UK car market, your approach is positive, invigorating and brave. I'm sure HJ will be pleased with the respect you've shown for the forums with such a detailed reply.
Backroomer's, Mods & HJ -- spam is unsolicited, so stop calling it spam!
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