Could someone please answer a question. I was dealing with a road accident today and faced the usual problem. I spend three quarters of my time dealing with motorists who manage to bypass accident signs, swerve past cones (including driving on the pavement), avoid ambulances/police cars/fire engines and then aim directly for me.
Now I know I'm wearing high viz clothing. The car has battenburg markings. The 360 blues are on. The cones are bright yellow,
Do these items suddenly become invisible when they are taken out of the boot of my car. The chief culprits are old women (no surprise there) and middle aged business men. One 'gent' even threatened to report me because I took exception to him driving on the pavement, (after getting out of his car to move a cone) and then almost running over a paramedic who was knelt ddown dealing with a casualty.
Oh well.Only four more days and nights till my next days off.
MLC
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Yes .... Dealt with a driver who rear ended another whilst rubbernecking at an accident scene. Defending the Idefensible, he insisted on going not guilty on a careless driving rap. Got fined around £300.00. Dare I say - quite rightly.
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MLC, I'd genuinely be interested in your views on the great speeding/camera debate that we have on here, given your professional viewpoint. I've seen the results of a few RTAs in my time and it sure does slow me down. Perhaps you could post in the relevant thread.
Ta.
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These are the same people ranting at motorway accident delays. Don't you know my 3pm sales meeting is at risk? Don't you? Now move that damned paramedic out of the road.....
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Now then, MLC, we middle-agers aren't ALL like that. You seem to be an enlightened plo.....err....bobby (nearly mis-spelled policeman, there). You've heard of mass hysteria. Do you think we could create the opposite effect, and spread it among your less user-friendly colleagues?
I'm particularly interested in three examples, close to home. One's a sergeant who's always officious, even responding to "good morning." Another attends RTAs, never gets out of his car, expects you to know you shouldn't go through that bus-sized gap into a side street, and tries to ram you when you do. The third one doesn't know the law, and forces you into his back seat, so you can explain it to him. I had the misfortune to crush his cap with my right boot when he forgot to retrieve it from the floor. Oh dear, why do they make life so difficult?
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What I would say to you MLC, is those drivers who DON'T see the cones etc are the very drivers you SHOULD be doing something about.
How about booking them for driving WDC&A?
It really anoys me that when the police have perps like these before their very eyes, they seem to do nothing to stop them.
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"when the police have perps like these"
Watcher.......what's a perp? Is this a technical term, or police slang for winker? Or what?
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perp = perpeptraitor (sorry about the spelling!) of a crime or deed.
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"perp = perpeptraitor (sorry about the spelling!) of a crime or deed"
And how do you know that, young man............?
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Watcher, (like me), read Judge Dread comics when he was a youngster. (or even older)
'Perp' was the term used.
'Juve' was the term used for a youthful offender
Dread* had a lovely way of dealing with motoring offenders - simply blew up their car with an incendiary bullet!
*For those who don't know, Judge Dread, lawman of the 22nd century. Judge, jury, executioner - tarined for 20 years to be an instant justice dispenser.
Rode a tasty 8-litre Notron (yes, Notron) motorcycle, BTW.
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See my previous post on advanced driving (survival) techniques, which listed observation, correct reaction and consideration for other road users.
Your examples lack all three.
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if he is driving on the pavement book him ? or at least take his number and do it later ?
little bit of rain, and a few road accidents (enough to soak up all the local traffic cars) and you can effectlvely drive any old way you want, as long as you slam the brakes on before the scameras, because plod wont bother or have the time
now on a clear day in perfect conditions, you'll get done for 5 mph over the limit and similar trivia
which of these circumstances causes most deaths ?
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My point exactly.
Bet I can guess the reason why they don't though. Anyone else like to try?
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A police friend (now retired) once told me of an occasion when he was doing traffic duty at the scene of a fatal road accident -road blocked, bits everywhere, all the 999 services at the scene. He was attempting to turn round/divert the drivers massing on his side of the accident. Everyone cooperated and accepted his brief explanation and request to find an alternative route. However, one driver - middle aged and nice car - insisted that he just had to be let through. Polite/patient friend reiterates explanation and advises driver the road is closed for several hours and he cannot be allowed through. Driver then swears at police friend and tells him he couldn't give a ******* toss about dead person, other casualties etc and that he had a very important meeting to get to. Unfortunately, there were no spare officers to allow him to deal with this driver in the appropriate way!
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MLC
(Tongue in cheek)
Are you putting your half mile inwards Police Slow - Police Accident signs out? Seems of late the bumps I have passed these are missing. Pressure of work?
Secondly, clouting your signs gives you the power to suspect defective eyesight. Now accepted too many driving blind. Get in fill your boots.
And one from the past - Dishforth junction A168/A.1 used to be a Roundabout with fog early morn this time of year. Dealing with a Roundabout leaper with FULL Police signing/lights in place plus those for Roundabout along comes a Rover and onto the Roundabout. Asked driver what he was doing and pointed out signs etc. Said he that there were no signs. Drove him down the approach and in total there were 18 bits of information (signs) over a mile on approach. Booked him and he was fined £75 and LE.
DVD
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Dwight ~ I just had to rise to the bait ! Who do I know who thinks he knows me, and who drives from Dishforth to Penrith via Scotch Corner ? Give us a clue !
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The reason (NOT excuse) for all the above aberrant behaviour is SELFISHNESS.
I categorise road users into 3 groups
1) "carefuls" - these sometimes annoy
2) "ranters" - (when was the last time you met an altruistic ranter?)
3) "sheep" (if it's OK for Doris, etc)
"Sheep" of course let others do their thinking for them,
and are by far the biggest group.
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1) "carefuls" - these sometimes annoy
Seriously Trevor.
Don't yuo find that carefuls (a group I recognise) actually put themselves in danger.
A careful near Gatwick yesterday stopped in the middle of a Motorway roundabout before entering the sliproad.
He'd have said he was being safe. In actual fact he was close to death!
--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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Nice to have you back MLC.
We all know that it's a minority of drivers who are responsible for most of the problems we experience on the roads.
Yes, we all make mistakes but some people drive as if they own the road and their problems are the only ones that matter. I'd agree with the sentiment that the people you described should be booked and I guess if there was an easy way of doing it (like cameras) they would be. If more people were booked for dangerous driving and the penalties were more severe there'd be less dangerous driving. I don't agree with speeding (especially in built up & residential areas) but do feel that there are far more dangerous aspects of driver behaviour which are routinely overooked and that's one reason why they are so common.
Some drive badly 'cos they are stupid and/or can't drive properly. Others do it because they feel they're more important than everyone else (how sad!). If these people knew they weren't going to get away with it I believe most would cease to act that way and the roads would be a safer and nicer place to be.
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Right so we're supposed to accept holdups for some moron who can't even control his vehicle. Some incosiderate git who carelessly stops the rest of us getting to where he wants to go endangering himself and others.
Not to mention the work shy Ambulance man who probably could have saved the guy's life in half the time and got traffic moving again if he pulled his finger out; and the plod who probably couldn't be bothered to sweep the borken glass up to save the expensive tyres of others.
Personally I'd have stopped while moving the cones aside and taken the time to jab sharp sticks in the malingering moron's wounds.
And FFS if you absolutely must crash, please do it on a cul de sac or quiet back road. Blocking up motorways is bad manners to say the least.
BTW it wasn't a Black Deauville on the M23, Junc 9 was it?
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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Hmm Toad, I will let others respond to the sentiments of your post (with innocent parties particularly in mind) but two points...
"work shy Ambulance man" - procedures are, I believe, MUCH slower these days due to the legal requirement (?) that every trapped/injured person is dealt with in the most careful and painstaking fashion. This has come about due to the potential for being sued if the job isn't "done right". Not their fault then.
"couldn't be bothered to sweep the broken glass up to save the expensive tyres of others"
I did a couple of shifts with a local TraffPol on the M4 and asked him why he didn't clear the glass. Response was that ALL auto glass is designed to grind up under pressure rather than puncture. Anyone know if this is true?
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Hmm Toad, I will let others respond to the sentiments of your post (with innocent parties particularly in mind) but two points... "work shy Ambulance man" - procedures are, I believe, MUCH slower these days due to the legal requirement (?) that every trapped/injured person is dealt with in the most careful and painstaking fashion. This has come about due to the potential for being sued if the job isn't "done right". Not their fault then. "couldn't be bothered to sweep the broken glass up to save the expensive tyres of others" I did a couple of shifts with a local TraffPol on the M4 and asked him why he didn't clear the glass. Response was that ALL auto glass is designed to grind up under pressure rather than puncture. Anyone know if this is true?
;-) ;-) ;-)
--
These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
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A number of interesting points in the thread so far:
"work shy ambulance man......slower procedures etc" - times have changed for the rescue services. We (I am Fire Service)work now to the 'golden hour'. That is get the casualty out of the vehicle and to hospital within one hour, tops. Time was the medicos used to spend so much time stabilising casualties that by the time we got them out it was often too late. We work MUCH closer together now; they tell us how badly injured the casualty is and we tell them how long it will take for us to cut them free. We arrive at a mutual understanding and try not to get into each other's way.
"couldn't be bothered to sweep glass..." we ALWAYS clear the roadway (as best as possible) of all debris, spilled fuel, oil glass etc after an RTA. We don't want to have to return to another RTA at the same spot!
We know the police imperative is to get traffic flowing, especially on major roads and try our best not to hold things up unduly. But sometimes our job in hand takes priority over your rush to work.
We are well trained and practised with excellent gear at our disposal and we still don't always get 'em out alive. Take very great care, folks, if we're not on duty it's down to the Army.
stephen d
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stephen d,
"Take very great care, folks, if we're not on duty it's down to the Army."
By "not on duty" I take it to mean when you are on strike for 40% extra pay.
Yes you are right it will be down to the Army, who would be a damn sight more effective if they had access to your "excellent gear."
You are clearly implying that people will die because of your absence - doubtless true.
Guess what separates you from nurses, doctors, police and even the Army.
Marcus
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Guess what separates you from nurses, doctors, police and >>even the Army.
Hmm.. would that be the highly acceptable working conditions such as the ability to sleep on night shifts allowing moonlighting during days off..? Or the relatively few serious incidents to attend compared to police or ambulance allowing more polishing time back at the station? Or perhaps that famous right to strike, employed at the drop of a hat by those militant, extreme left-wing union leaders who keep popping up on TV.
Still, it must be a shock for those crews who got heckled at shouts by their previously adoring public like happened last week, methinks they over estimated their public support..
Boff (works for the police in a control room)
== End of Rant ==
My wife says I never listen to her, or something like that
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Marcus: Agreed entirely! The Army should have the Fire Service's appliances and equipment. This is owned by the taxpayer and should be used to protect the public. It is not owned by firefighters. I fail to see how the Fire Brigade's Union could stop - even if it wanted to - the Army having this equipment. Talk of troops not being allowed to cross picket lines to prevent the dispute becoming inflamed is pure New Labour spin and propaganda.
As to you final question: "Guess what separates you from nurses, doctors, police and even the Army".....Is the answer that every time we go to work we expect to have to risk our lives, and they don't?
stephen d
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Stephen d
So 'risking your life every time you are called out'(even to RTAs) is suddenly to be valued at 40% more than your current wages?
Excuse my cynicism but it is difficult to escape the view that you are trying to cash in on the post September 11th sympathy for New York Firemen.
Marcus
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"every time we go to work we expect to have to risk our lives, and they don't?"
Funny that.. 8 times out of ten when we call out the brigade it is to things like bin fires, dog poo bin fires (bl**dy kids..), skip fires, smoke issuing (ie burnt toast), wash downs after rtas, the odd car fire, (and please don't try to tell me you endanger yourselves to save a 10 year old Astra..). another 1 time out of ten it is to a serious rta where someone needs cutting free (dangerous? no.) And the remaining 1 time out of ten it is a 'proper' fire where someone might need rescuing but usually doesn't. Oh, and the 11th time out of ten you leave the station you are responding to a faulty AFA (automatic fire alarm).
All in all the average fire fighter has a pretty easy life, or so it seems to the other emergency services, especially the police. By the way I speak here on behalf of the ordinary officers rather than the traffic variety who are a race apart.. We as a service are run ragged a lot of the time and officers out on the streets can face danger at any time of day at even the most innocuous seeming domestic squabble.
No officer or civilian employee I have spoken to has any sympathy for this pay claim and especially not for the threatened strike action.
Boff - works for the police in a countywide control room
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MLC
In answer to your original question, these people probably drive straight at you for the same reason that two vehicles can run into each other in the middle of a huge airfield. You stand out very obviously from the surroundings. Anyone driving with their brain disengaged instinctively looks at you - and the car goes where the driver is looking. The brain switches back on at the last minute, when their self-preservation kicks in, and they just miss you.
GJD
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Some interesting replies here. Replies to some:-
1. Book people driving on the pavement etc. If I had six pairs of hands I would do. Unfortunately, Emergency crew safety, gathering witness details, preserving scenes comes first.
2. I have no control over the use (or mis-use) of speed cameras. I and 99% of the guys I work with are sick of being alienated by speed cameras. They don't catch the reckless no insurance, no licence types. Usually because those sorts don't register the vehicles in their name. I would scrap the vast majority of them. That's all I've got to say about that.
3. It's easy to comment on why scenes haven't been cleared without knowing the full facts. Frustration can cloud judgement. Believe me, it's no fun trying to work around an accident scene when traffic is zooming past at 60-70mph.
4. Most people do understand and accept delays following an accident. I didn't mean to generalize. However there are quite a few obnoxious types out there and they are generally the first to complain when they are corrected.
5. I accept that there are overbearing and ignorant Police Officers. (In fact I know a few.) They embarrase me as much as themselves.
6. Most of us (who are generally hacked off with the job) just try to do our best. Sometimes it's doesn't quite turn out right. We are only human.
All together now. AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
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MLC
It certainly seems that sarious accidents are being investigated more thoroughly now: a good thing so long as the conclusions drawn lead to attempts to prevent repetition.
The last two I've gone past after the event (both in 30 mph limits BTW) were a 5.45am still being investigated at 9.15am, and (last Friday) a 15.37 accident with the road still closed at 19.15.
What does seem to lacking is any attempt to set up alternative routes/diversions whilst the road at the scene is closed.
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With so few officers to deal with inccidents, I am afraid we're at the mercy of the council where diversions are concerned.
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MLC
I appreciate that numbers are short and would be pleased to see more officers on the roads (and fewer metal boxes at the side).
However, as happened the week before last I drove a mile down a rural road which has no turnings off it to find it closed due to a prang, had to turn round (with others) and drive a mile back to the junction before finding an alternative route.
Sending an officer with an "Accident, Road Closed" sign back to the junction would have saved a lot of people a lot of time and made the accident scene safer by stopping traffic approaching it.
Or even repositioning the officer at the junction, there are only two houses and a small airfield between the junction and the accident and anyone coming out of those could hardly miss an ambulance, a fire engine and a police car, all with blues on.
However, keep up the good work with what you've got!
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As reagrds road closures its got to be said even for pre-planned "its only a bike race through the city centre" type events where there are lots of police of duty, and plenty of time to figure out how they are going to stop the traffic, where they are going to post officers, and put road blocks
I have to say a few months ago some of thames valleys finest sent a large number of cars down the turnings of some roundabouts where his collegue was forced to stop them for HOURS in order to prevent them running down cyclists - when the earlier coppers could have instead sent them down a turnining away from the event to make further route choices
Being stuck in some jams for no good reason led to some heated exchanges with the coppers (i was one of the mild ones) and "I agree thats some of the worst traffic policing Ive ever seen" came out of the mouth of one of the coppers I was next to
So you can understand why the public gets upset
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I notice a couple of comments along the lines of wishing there were more resources available to get police out there catchign dangerous drivers instead of relying on cameras.
I spent some time with the local traffic department a few months back, and one of their resource problems was that they were used as a free recovery service by people who broke down on the motorway. Apparently they had to organise to get a local contractor to tow the vehicle off the motorway, but often had to go out and ensure the safety of the vehicle in question by parking behind it on the hard shoulder until the tow arrived.
They were already stretched, trying to cover miles of motorway and major roads with 4 units (down to 3 at the time due to illness).
Shouldn't it be compulsory to have basic recovery on every car, e.g. as part of insurance?
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