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They should not have released the car to you. I would add that you should have not taken it either. Regards Peter
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Tough situation, I suppose just get it home as safely as you can and don't drive it again until you have it fixed.
Edited by davecuk on 07/10/2009 at 20:36
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Hi all
Thanks for the info and opinions. I have had to drive the car to work again this morning in this condition. The car feels fine and I have no choice, I am self employed and haven't had time since 5pm last night until this morning to arrange a hire car or anything.
I am really disappointed (again) that a BMW main dealer has left me in this mess.
Considering the car still has the BMW Used car Warranty, perhaps they should provide me with a lease car? If the car breaks down and can't be repaired then the BMW Emergency service will provide me a replacement vehicle within 3.5hrs. Hmm? They have, themeselves, documented that they believe the car to be unroadworthy therefore I should have the car!
Thanks for the advice chaps, think it's triggered a good idea in my head at least!! Wish I'd thought of it last night instead of driving it away :-)
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I have had to drive the car to work again this morning in this condition. The car feels fine and I have no choice.
The garage declare your car dangerous to drive, yet you are still driving it. Are you insane? You DO have a choice, and you took the wrong one.
You deserve to have the book thrown at you if stopped by the police and your licence taken away from you.
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Technically I am driving it to the garage to get it repaired. I live close to Southampton, work in Farnborough and this is where the dealership is. I have no intention of driving the car again as by the end of the day I will have my courtesy car. I had to get the car back here to have it towed away by the dealership.
That said, the point you have raised is valid and true and I do not have any defence.
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I am not up to speed on the English MOT system, nor indeed red fail certs
Our MOT centres are Government funded and staffed and very stringent
HOWEVER
We recently got a presentation from my employers insurers, as we run quite a few vehicles.
The presenter, speaking for the insurer, mentioned that lack of a current MOT does not invalidate the insurance.
i have in the past driven without a MOT, due to a backlog
BUT
I had had the car prepped for the test by a VAT reg/ professional / Francise holding garage.
I would have argued in a court of law that I was acting "reasonably"
jat
M
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On an 06 car then this must be the car's first MOT, so it's not without MOT until the anniversary of its registration date. So no MOT offence is being commited until that date.
However, as others have pointed out, the car could be unroadworthy, which is always an offence in itself regardless of the MOT status.
Also, you would be in a lot of trouble in the event of an accident (especially a serious one where there might be some digging) if it became apparent that you knowingly drove the car in such a condition.
I, too, am amazed that they dealer let you take the car. I had this with a lease car once and the lease company refused at first to pay for a hire car, but the garage wouldn't let me take the car unless I signed a disclaimer. No way was I going to sign that so I hired a car myself and my company sent the bill to lease company to pay, which they did.
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Hi 'BillPayer'
The MOT actually runs out on the 14th September. I bought the car 12 months ago as an Approved Used Car which meant BMW had to put 12mths MOT on it. Therefore it was MOT'd early.
My understanding, and I may be wrong, is that as soon as the car is MOT'd irrespective of the anniversary date, as soon as it has failed that is the latest status in the VOSA system therefore the previous MOT is irrelevAnt? Am I wrong?
I've sent a few complaints off to BMW now and they have arranged for Avis to deliver a courtesy car to me so at least I will be all legal until it's fixed......apart from having to drive to BMW later to collect it.
A few times it's been mentioned that this is a difficult situation but by going to a main dealer, a BMW dealer at that, you would expect for messes like this not to arise.
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The MOT actually runs out on the 14th September.
Do you mean October?
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yes, sorry, typing too quick and not thinking, yes it runs out on October 14th..
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My understanding and I may be wrong is that as soon as the car is MOT'd irrespective of the anniversary date as soon as it has failed that is the latest status in the VOSA system therefore the previous MOT is irrelevAnt? Am I wrong?
Yes, you're wrong. The old MOT remains valid until its expiry date.
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As the vehicle has just had its first MOT inspection and failed, then 'technically' if the owner drives it he is still committing an offence. He has been advised that the vehicle is dangerous to drive and this advice would be on the failure sheet logged with VOSA. In the event of an accident the vehicles history would be looked at ie MOT test and the failure details would come up with the advice 'dangeous to drive' on it. The owner would then find himself deep in the doo doo as his insurance would then be invalid. MOT tests are there for a reason - to validate the vehicles condition and to asvise if its not. Ignoring advice about the vehicle being dangerous and ignoring it is as bad as drink driving.
I think I'll keep clear of the Southampton area........
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Seems to be a lot of moral people on here but i'd love to see what they would do differently had they been stranded in the middle of an isolated industrial area, 50 miles from home after office hours and been presented with the situation I found myself in.
This morning I felt I had to get the car back here for the dealer to repair the problems.
In hindsight and had I not been a little bit stunned last night I would have called BMW emergency service to help me. I guess my mind logically didn't place the main dealer returning my car with their own driver with then immediately needing to call the break down service! I mean technically the car should be towed back to the garage.
I have admitted I have made a mistake and i'm not proud of it and, as explained, had I had the time over again I would have taken a different course of action.
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I would have the first MOT (i.e. on a 3 year old car) well within, say a month, of the warranty period and have it performed by a franchised dealer*. Thus any failings or advisories would be fixed under warranty where applicable.
* Unless of course the mileage invalidates the warranty.
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Indeed, the work is covered by the warranty but they didn't have the parts in stock!
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I have little sympathy because if you can afford a BMW you can afford a taxi or to hire a car then maybe try claim the costs back from BMW. If you're finances are that tight maybe you should sell the BMW and get something cheaper?
When is the MOT due? As longs as its not gone past that date you car won't flag up as having no MOT but if you were to have an accident due to this fault you would be in serious trouble.
I know it is a tough situation but there is always a choice to driving a dangerious car. I've had mates moan about similar things and I just laugh in their face especialy when they have a direct trains service to where they apparantly need to drive their dangerious car to.
Edited by Rattle on 08/10/2009 at 16:33
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Blimey!
I've accepted I should have done things differently and I have now forced BMW to give me a courtesy car.
Everyone is going on at me for driving this car, which I have held my hands up to. No one has mentioned the main dealer putting their minimum wage driver in the death trap car!
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Fair play for putting your hands up and admitting it...
I too find the main dealers to be at fault for giving the car to their driver and then back to you. I am amazed that they would do this.
Now onto other matters, what will happen if the parts don't arrive before the 12mths warranty is up? Have they made it clear that they will still cover the full cost of repairs and MOT re-test?
If not, then you know what you need to do next...
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I had not thought of that! I am about to take the car to the dealer and leave it there until it's repaired, i've got the hire car for 4 days so i'm sure they can get it repaired by then. If it keeps going on and on then obviously I will have to force them to docment the fact that this was flagged up during the warranty period.
My courtesy car is at the dealers now, I said I was concerned about driving it and that I have no insurance but they said I was ok as I am driving it to the MOT centre for the repair, quick search of google suggests this will be ok.
Got to go, my courtesy car is waiting. If I never post again something went horribly wrong with the steering between my office and the dealers. Someone feel free to sue BMW on my behalf please.
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Fair enough :) I guess it also depends on what the dangerious fault is :). My dad had one for a leaking brake pipe for example. And I told him off too!
The dealer does sound pretty bad in this case :).
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exact wording is "offside front track rod end ball joint has excessive play [2.2.B.1F] **DANGEROUS**
Still steers ok though.....or have I got used to something really bad?
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Difficult to say - we can't see how much play and/or how knackered the tre is.
As an aside, since the issue was touched on above, if a vehicle has its mot test taken early and it fails this does not invalidate the original mot. The issue still applies though that unroadworthy/dangerous vehicles should not be driven.
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exact wording is "offside front track rod end ball joint has excessive play [2.2.B.1F] **DANGEROUS**
Worse case scenario is that if the track rod ball joint fails, you will only have one wheel still connected to the steering rack and you'll either veer into the path of oncoming traffic or into the verge and run someone over or hit something solid such as a tree, wall or house. Either way, it's going to hurt you and possibly other innocent people or someone's property.
Still steers ok though.....or have I got used to something really bad?
You won't necessarily notice a worn trackrod end while driving. Generally the first sign is irregular tyre wear where the wheel is wobbling slightly from left to right.
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As the vehicle has just had its first MOT inspection and failed then 'technically' if the owner drives it he is still committing an offence.
He is not, by default, committing an offence - technically or otherwise.
Now it may be that the car in unroadworthy which is an offence separate from anything to do with the MOT, but MOT testers opinion varies. That tester may think it's dangerous, another one way think it's a bit worn but OK.
Franchised dealers always seem to be much more stringent than other garages when doing MOTs. Funny that.
I took my Merc for its 5 year MOT to the dealership and they said "Oh dear, some bushes are a bit deteriorated and the disks are a bit pitted - they really ought to be changed."
"No worries, I said, go ahead, the car is covered by MB ServicePlus".
Cue the service advisor wetting herself and backpeddling enormously. They did change them in the end (although I can't see any bushes that are obviously new) but it was clear they'd dropped a clanger.
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