>>How slow was the Escort 1.6D<<
I can confirm reports of non-acceleration.
Easily managed 60-65mpg on motorway driving, but sustained slopes required the foot to be buried to the carpet, and I'd even seen it dropped into 3rd to get up the hill just south of perth on the M90 heading to Edinburgh, at about 40mph.
It's turning circle was also insanely huge, especially when the Orion petrol was rather good.
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I've got fond memories of the then-new 1996 Rover 220D that I bought and run for nearly 2 years. Approx. 90BHP I recall, consistently high 40s mpg, and this despite frequent autobahn blasts in Germany. Saw 120mph on the clock a few times. A bit clattery by today's standards perhaps, but plenty of in-gear oomph. Part-ex'ed it for a 100bhp 1.4 petrol version which was a mistake...
More recently, VAG's 1.9 SDI non-turbo diesel was unburstable, and surely cheap to run and maintain?
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The XUD was a fantastic unit. Our 1991 BX 19RD Estate was actually a much better drive than it's 1.6RS hatch predecessor. There was an easily acquired knack to keeping it in the powerband but with that in mind good progress could be made. The 1.7XUD 205 made you think "good grief! -what would the GTi be like".
Our main family transport is an 05 1.9D Berlingo. The engine is a non turbo hybrid between the XUD and the current HDi engines. IDI but with some lectronics in the fuelling system to meet emission requirements it produces around 70BHP. It's nothing like as fast as my HDi 110 Xantia but actually much more relaxing on a long distance drive. Like the BX it's a question of making the most of what's there.
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I've had a few old school diesels - always needed a diesel due to my commute before I was made redundant earlier this year and never spent much on the cars due to the state of the roads I used to commute on.
I started with an Orion 1.8, non turbo - great car, apart from the rust which finally killed it at an MOT. I remember being told to replace the cambelt on that every 30k by the way. That was replaced with a Primera 2.0 (non-turbo) diesel which I disliked greatly. Very slow, not especially economical after the Ford, and a very uncomfortable driving position. It was almost a relief when the cambelt went. After that came a Peugeot 205, which was superb - reliable, comfortable, reasonably quick, very economical, and great to drive.
That was traded in for a 309 due to an expanding family - same comments apply although it was not as fast as the 205.
The 309 was traded for a Renault 19 TD which was great until it blew an injector out the head. The 19 was replaced by another 19 which gave 20k miles of fault free service before being hit head on by a transit in a lane.
The replacement for that was a 306 TD, again totally trouble free over a great many miles.
The 306 was supplemented some time back by an Espace 2.1 TD which until the last MoT was completely reliable and problem free. I bought another Espace a couple of weeks back which is intended as a replacement for the other one but I'm reluctant to let it go.
Bit of a long post this, but hopefully it shows just how good some of these cars can be if you take the time to find a good one and look after it - oil and filter change every 6k without fail, shot of injector cleaner every month, and flush the cooling system every year. Apart from the 306 none of them cost me more than £500 and the running costs have been absolutely minimal.
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Parents had a Peugeot 504 GLD with the XD2 2304cc Indenor engine (never sure why they always used the term Indenor? was a it a subsidiary?) that I think they bought at the end of 1978. It marked us out as a very "odd" family in the village we lived in. Lots of comment about what "we'd done" in buying one...also disturbing the peace I think was the unspoken reason.
never drove it myself on account of only being 8 years old but I remember it was a bit revolutionary at the time - It was the same year that the 604 Turbo diesel was launched.
Anyhow my dad got average 42mpg out of it - at the time neighbours did not believe him - he made money as his mileage allowance was cc rated and he got the rate assuming you were driving a jag or a Granada V6 over 2000cc. I had no idea at the time that a 2 litre petrol of almost any make never got much more than mid 20s and sometimes barely even 20mpg.
Things I remember were - it was not hugely noisy inside (Although this was all relative - I remember travelling in other's cars and remarking how quiet they were) but you could hear it from 500m away in the street. That is so different to diesels nowadays.
Also was perversely low geared. had the same gearing as the petrol I believe so it meant that it was effectively running at close to its governor speed at about 85mph. A fifth gear would have made a world of difference and probably made it faster.
The car met it's demise at 130,000 miles when the engine blew up in the fast lane of the M6. clear hole from one cylinder to the other. garage had fitted the wrong pressure cap on the expansion tank so it was blowing out alot of its coolant. Garage refused to accept it was their fault and thought they could calm him down by trying to get my dad to look at a new Peugeot in the showroom...about the only time I've heard my Dad swear in public....He had ideas the car would go on a bit more than 130,000 given we'd been as a family to North Africa and seen legions of 404 and 504 taxis still running fine.
Edited by Webmaster on 01/10/2009 at 02:09
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For the early to mid 90s, before I started driving, my mum ran around in a 1986 Fiesta 1.6D. While quite a tractor, it was simple and just ran. The petrol engined cars she had before always seemed to need something fixing over the winter, such as the ignition or carburettor.
In the last year she had it, a chain of things did go wrong. I think the thermostat failed. But fixing it, they found the water pump wanted doing. But fixing that blew the radiator. Or something along those lines.
The source of the Fiesta was the fleet at the place where my dad worked. When I was learning to drive, a 1990 mkIII 1.8D came up for sale. I wanted that rather than my mum have it and me buy the 1.6 off my mum.
As a first car, it wasn't bad. For £900, the six-year old 166k gave me a year of dependable service, which was great when cash was tight. It was slow and not perfect condition, but comparable with most of my friends had. I averaged 50-55mpg. The only trouble it gave was when the glow plugs died the day before the MoT. It just meant lots of effort starting, with huge amounts of smoke, but it still passed the test (though the first smoke reading was five times the limit). I sold it after a year for £1100 as I couldn't take it to university.
Being without a car at uni in the first year wasn't a problem, but I wanted one for the summer and second year, and found a ZX 1.9D. As posted above, the did the job. It may seem unrefined and slow compared to today, but it was streets ahead of the Fiesta. It only gave me 45mpg and didn't like starting from cold. Unless you gave it revs, the engine would splutter and die after first seeming to catch.
I kept it for less than a year, fancying a change. A look at the fleet list where my dad worked showed a lot of Peugeots about to be sold. There was a basic 205, but group 8 insurance for another XUD. A few 309s, but also group 8 for the same engine. Several 405s, same engine and oddly enough same insurance, which gave me an idea. In fact, the turbos were the same group too. I really wanted a turbo so looked privately rather than the fleet and found a 405GTX TurboD, with the 1.9 XUD TE. Only 90bhp, and group 9 for that model, but the turbo made such a difference when accelerating onto a motorway. Plenty of room inside for people and stuff, plus loads of toys. Even my dads car didn't have aircon at the time.
Apart from a leaking cam cover, there was nothing wrong with the engine. It was an able performer and returned the same 45mpg as the Citroen. What really let it down was everything other than the engine needing fixing. It cost me a fortune as a student when I didn't have a great deal to spend and to this day remains one of the most expensive cars I've owned.
The diesel economy and punch inspired a friend to get a Rover 220SDi, which at 105bhp was one of the quickest small diesels around at the time. Another tractor by noise by engine-wise just got on with it.
I've mainly had petrols since. There have been a pair of VAG 1.9 diesels since, but I wouldn't go out of my way for another diesel now. Back in the 1990s, the diesel was still the alternative choice, for a reliable, economical engine. But now, the extra complexity and need to do a big mileage to payoff makes the now-popular choice less appealing.
Just a thought now is that it took a while to wean off waiting for the glow plug light to go out. Even with the following petrols and and VAG TDIs that needed a fraction of a second, I would wait for some other lamp such as the immobiliser to extinguish before turning the key further.
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Got 2 90s diesels at the moment..my everyday car is the Vitara Turbo diesel automatic.
Nice smooth engine, gives enough power to tow the caravan at the legal limit and seems to return about 40 mpg knocking about locally.
The other is a 96 VW Caddy van....rattly on tickover but quite smooth when revved. Sound like something around the cam making the noise but I'm not wasting any time looking. Dead reliable, just keeps on going !
Worst old diesel was one FIL was given at work...BMC Farina...hopeless, no benefit over petrol model at all ! SIL had a couple of ZX s great cars until head gaskets went and then just scrapped and replaced with another.
Ted
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We started with a Maestro Clubman D, ex Panda car from south Wales, ran with no problems whatsoever for 36k and towed a 13' caravan with it... it would tow uphill and down dale without any problems, 45mpg towing and 60 not - and I didn't hang around when towing either, only thing that held me up was a horse box!!
Changed that for a Monty TDi which, frankly, wasn't as good until the turbo kicked in, but I don't like thrashing an engine to get power so we changed to an Astra Estate 1.7D with the low pressure turbo and I can only echo Stu's comments, it was a peach of an engine, low down torque, economical, quick enough to drive to the Czech Republic in the Autobahns (as did the Monty!) and quiet... we then got a P reg Vectra with the Di 2.0l engine which was a complete disaster and was swapped within a year for the Fabia 1.9TDi... and I'm still with Skoda and that engine in the Roomster...
For commuting I did have a 1.4CD Metro which like the OP's Pug was superbly economical but slooooww... changed that for a Corsa 1.5TD which had so much turbo lag that I ended up not using the turbo for much of my journey as it only kicked in at about 2300rpm - used to get 55mpg though - that car was sold to a work colleague with 47k on the clock and is still going now somewhere in the mid 100k!
Edited by b308 on 01/10/2009 at 10:21
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Apart from uk beefy, everyone here is talking about 1990s diesels as being old.
When I were a lad, I remember Dad buying a Peugeot 305 diesel in 1979, shortly after they were first introduced. Diesel cars were unheard of, and that marked us out as weird. Great car to learn to drive on as they were very hard to stall! 1548cc IIRC, quite noisy on start-up but very refined on the go, with a lovely smooth ride and soft suspension in the old French way.
Dad tried to persuade me to get a 504 diesel circa 1982, but they were so scarce the only ones we could find were well-worn ex-taxis. After that we had a couple of Mk1 Golfs and a Renault 18 Estate (2.1). The Golf was a milestone in its day, until the XUD engine appeared - in the Talbot Horizon first. We also had a Mk1 Astra D and a Cavalier D (1.6 IIRC?) - neither was better than the Golf or 305.
With the advent of the XUD we had countless BXs and 405s (with and without turbos) in the family business, all successful workhorses apart from the one with an automatic gearbox - not a happy union!
As others have posted, it was the XUD which really brought diesel into the mainstream, I recall the BX was the best-selling diesel in the UK for many years with its excellent combination of low price, low weight and low running costs. I'm coming over all misty-eyed now!
Edited by boxsterboy on 01/10/2009 at 11:53
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In 1965 my grandparents did a grand tour of Europe in a Mercedes 190D.
The guy who owned it really did think outside the box when buying his cars.
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Diesel cars were unheard of...
LOL! Pun surely intended? :)
I recall the BX was the best-selling diesel in the UK for many years with its excellent combination of low price, low weight and low running costs.
Yep, Citroën have really lost their way. I don't see a real successor to that great car. The C5 is just trying too hard to be up-market, and the C4 is too trendy, or at least tries to be.
Edited by TheOilBurner on 01/10/2009 at 12:19
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I owned two 1990's diesels, one being a Rover 420 SLDi and a Nissan Primera 2.0TD
The Nissan was best described as numb, started, ran around but woeful acceleration, crossing the Cotswolds north of Cirencester, I was often down to second gear for some of the minor hills. The fuel pump was failing but thankfully the cambelt snapped and gave me the excuse to get rid of it.
The Rover was in total contrast to the Nissan, ran like a sewing machine, high 50's for fuel consumption. Its greatest failing was it's inability to pass the emissions test, some reading were very high, buckets of Redex and a day on the M4 in 4th gear was usually needed to get a pass. I got rid of it when a series of expensive faults culminated in a gearbox failure.
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I run a BX XUD estate. It's my only car and I have done 10k since March. It's the latest of a long line of Citroens (21), many of them XUD engined. I am a community nurse and spend much of my day trundling round town. Although obviously dated, I am constantly impressed by this engines flexibility and refinement. It has never returned less than 44mpg and often manages 50+ on long runs. For £200, and with almost faultless reliability so far, I can't think of a better car!
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80k miles in a Rover 825D. Italian VM diesel. Went ok.. horrible car, headgasket going when it was returned (company car). Lots of torque and get up and go 35mph.
SWMBO has her 1.4 106 diesel: just keeps going. c50mpg and the best example of gutless driving.. will do 70mph on flat: drove to Scotland once: did not like Shap.
Drove Mercedes 300D : another gutless wonder. Big ponderous and dull.
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"Diesel cars were unheard of, and that marked us out as weird"
I know what you mean. I had an uncle who ran a diesel VW Passat MkI in the late 70s/early 80s. It was the only private diesel car I knew of at the time. I just thought it was noisy compared to other cars. He ran it for economy reasons and towing a caravan. It was that same uncle I inherited the R21 diesel I mention further up.
I agree that it was Peugeot and Citroen who popularised diesel cars in the early 90s.
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Citroen BX; had 1.9TD on the boot badge but I think it was a non-turbo 1.7.
Good engine, rest of the car was a real horror.
Also ran a BMW 525TD automatic for three years; superb car but fuel economy was disappointing. Overall about 36 mpg which wasn't much better than a friend was getting from his 520. Brilliant motorway cruiser though, and very well built as BMW's were then.
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I was given a lift in a Peugeot 305 Van when I missed my bus in the Highlands in about 1985, the lady driving it had a 'press on' style (i.e. I was terrified) but the refinement and performance of the 1.7 XUD (?) engine impressed me.
When looking for a car 3 years later I test drove a 205 with the 1.7 XUD engine in it, again it was impressively refined and performed very well, however I could get a much better spec petrol model for the money and so 'bottled it', I regretted that decision.
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I've got a '96 Mondeo 1.8TDI. It had 72,000 on the clock when I bought it five years ago and is now up to 151,000.
Not the quickest lump I've ever owned but I like it, around 50mpg and a nice reliable motor. I'd have another one tomorrow.
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