I found a genuine reason to do this the other day.
My brother has a Civic auto with all the toys, including auto/manual gearbox.
Trying to reverse off the parking spot beside the caravan, it felt like it was bogged down.
The surface is loose gravel and the car needed quite a bit of right foot to get it going, although the wheels didn't spin.
Turn off the traction control and it rolled off under light throttle as you would expect.
I wonder what the traction control was trying to do before I turned it off?
Brother later told me he's had a similar experience on wet grass.
Are there any other reasons for turning off the traction control?
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Snow, stuck at traffic lights on an upward hill first thing in the morning. Vectra would not pull away as TC prevented wheels from slipping. No off switch so had to roll back before I could move off. Quite an odd design flaw having no off switch.
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Forgive me for being thick here but I thought TC stopped wheels slipping, so I can't see how turning it off helps?
I'm not questioning the experiences of the above posts, just trying to understand.
Cheers.
FTF
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Forgive me for being thick here but I thought TC stopped wheels slipping so I can't see how turning it off helps?
On low friction surfaces an amount of slippage will happen, due to the torque overcoming the grip.
watch a steam train moving off from a standing start to see an extreme version of this!
the problem is, that the TC is to sensitive, and prevents this small amount of slippage. turning it off, and being gentle on the pedals allows the wheels to turn a small amount before gripping.
have you ever walked on ice, and felt you foot slip, then grip? thats what happens!
As I have said before, the problem with these systems, ie TC, ABS, ESP, etc, is that in normal conditions they work perfectly, and do increase safety, but in extreme cases can cause the driver to expect the car to break the laws of physics.........
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Most traction control's cut the engine power when a wheel slips, which works fine when for example you've overcooked it leaving a roundabout and cutting the power allows the vehicle to stabilise whereas things could have come unstuck.
But in situations such as the OP the last thing you need is loss of power at the crucial moment.
Limited slip diffs are better for such off road situations, but unless they have a power reduction system built into the car won't always help in extreme on road 'verge of losing it' scenarios.
I suppose some high performance cars have a system that combines both, but must be costly.
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GB - cutting the engine power wouldn't make the revs go up would it? That's why I think this car has VSA rather than the old, crude traction control that just cuts the power.
I think it's fair to observe though that it does work - ifithelps didn't say it was stuck. All it illustrates is that proper use of the controls can beat automation in a simple situation like getting moving on a loose or slippery surface.
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GB - cutting the engine power wouldn't make the revs go up would it?
I think reading between the lines that the revs didn't go up as there's no mention of wheelspin, the only reason i can think of is that the system cut the power.
As you say, often the old ways of getting going (or stopping) are still the best in bad conditions, always assuming the driver has a bit of experience.
I wonder if many of the younger drivers who haven't driven older stuff would cope without the driving aids now so poplular.
EDIT...IIH asked if there are other situations to turn off traction...snow.
Edited by gordonbennet on 09/08/2009 at 13:02
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I wonder if many of the younger drivers who haven't driven older stuff would cope without the driving aids now so poplular.
Send them on a track day in a V6 Capri in the rain, learn the hard way!
Seriously though I think I learn alot about car control from driving bangers were the most advanced feature was a brake servo and discs at the front.
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I wonder if many of the younger drivers who haven't driven older stuff would cope without the driving aids now so popular.
I intend to get myself a classic car, as I believe that having a simple, no-frills car could well help to hone my skills as a driver. Sadly, that's not going to be a realistic prospect for a while =(
Also, traction control isn't so good when (particularly on tracks) you want to go round a corner sideways...
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...Quite an odd design flaw having no off switch....
Zippy,
The on/off switch for the traction control on the CC3 is buried in one of the sub-menus of the trip computer.
The handbook says it resets to 'on' every time the engine is stopped, so Ford clearly think it need only be turned off in exceptional circumstances.
Vectras have a trip computer, don't they? Your car might have a similar switching arrangement.
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Does it have "traction control" or VSA (Vehicle Stability Assist, Hondaspeak for ESP+TC)?
VSA brakes a wheel that's starting to slip. If there is some brake effort being used, you'd expect more coal to be needed to overcome it and move the car forward. With the car being automatic as well, the additional torque demand would allow the revs to rise as well as the torque to increase, without wheelspin or an increase in speed.
Without the VSA, the nascent slip would still be there, but with gentle use of the controls doesn't actually develop into proper wheelspin, and the lower torque keeps the revs down as there is less slippage in the fluid coupling.
Probably complete tosh but the best I can come up with.
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...Does it have "traction control" or VSA (Vehicle Stability Assist, Hondaspeak for ESP+TC)?...
Firstly,
Thanks to everyone for having a think about this - not easy to make a judgment from a secondhand description.
I'm sure the car does have the Hondaspeak VSA.
The sensation on loose gravel with VSA on was also a bit like revving an auto against the footbrake, or a feeling one of the wheels was chocked.
I reckon the auto box, and possibly going backwards, has something to do with it.
My manual CC3 has traction control and that comes of the same gravel drive OK.
I suspect I might not have noticed if the Honda had been manual.
As others have said elsewhere, that Honda autobox is not brilliant when pulling away on a dry road, so that might have something to do with it, as well.
Edited by ifithelps on 09/08/2009 at 13:17
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>>The sensation on loose gravel with VSA on was also a bit like revving an auto against the footbrake,
I think you probably were doing exactly that, with the car trying to control the developing slip by braking one or both wheels. It would be logical, and would probably have done the same whether going forwards or backwards.
VSA is quite impressive really - I couldn't resist testing it a few times on a wet roundabout - when that light starts blinking, it all goes a bit wooden but it does keep things under control without drama. No fun if you're doing it on purpose, but could be a lifesaver if you were taken by surprise while trying to find your exit and dodging three lanes of traffic.
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Are there any other reasons for turning off the traction control?
To have fun in a RWD car!!!!!
Tin hat on, safety comments overload I'm sure will be coming in response to my comment but on a track you would not have the TC on.
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Why one needs TC anyway?
May be it is just a marketing device to make you feel it is needed when in reality it is not?
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Last winter I had to dig my car out of about a metre of snow whilst in Austria. Underneath the snow was a layer of packed ice, so even after digging a path behind the car it was still almost too slippery to stand up. The car was, of course, parked forwards into the parking space (and I'd forgotten my snow chains!). Switched on the engine, selected reverse, pressed the accelerator. Two helpful people pushed from the front. The engine revs went up, both wheels spun, and the clever traction control system reduced the engine revs back down again to stop the wheels spinning. Result? No power applied to the wheels.
After a few attempts, including explaining to the people pushing that I wasn't mad or stupid for continually backing off the revs, I pressed the button that switched off the traction control system (DSC+T in technobabble) and tried again. Wheels spun and almost no traction, but just enough to move the car to the area of the carpark which had been cleared.
Before this happened I could see absolutely no reason for being able to switch off the traction control.
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Why one needs TC anyway? May be it is just a marketing device to make you feel it is needed when in reality it is not?
TC, or something more sophisticated, is very useful on cars with much more power than they need, which is all of them some of the time. Especially for people who use cars like white goods, which is most of us at times, and some people all of the time.
There's a compromise with everything, but I suspect such driver aids have kept a lot of people out of ditches.
The flipside is summed up by Herbert Spencer - "The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools", which is perhaps why so many people make no adjustment to their driving when conditions are poor.
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>> Are there any other reasons for turning off the traction control? To have fun in a RWD car!!!!! Tin hat on safety comments overload I'm sure will be coming in response to my comment but on a track you would not have the TC on.
Absolutely! There's nothing more satisfying than pulling a nice, fluid powerslide on a wide left-hand bend (though clearly it's best to avoid it when there's other traffic around). ESP off is also good for traffic-light burn-ups. A mate of mine has a green Merc W123 estate with a modern E320CDI engine and the local Max Power contingent always assume he's going to be really slow off the line and he just presses moderately hard on the throttle and, whoosh, goodbye Mr. Chav. Certainly, tracks and ESP don't go together...
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