Hi,
My wife hit a parked car on Tuesday as she was pulling alongside it. Minor damage to the bumper but as they are plastic on modern cars, I guess it would need a new one (it was an 08 Vauxhall).
Nobody was with the parked car as you would expect, so my wife did the right thing and left a note under the windscreen with her phone number. We haven't heard anything yet.
We don't want to inform her insurance company at this point as they will certainly hold her NCB in obeyance for 2 years whilst there is an 'open' claim and therfore we would pay 2 years of premiums at a higher rate.
Where do we stand here? My wife didn't take the reg number of the other car other than it was an 08. Should we go to the police to report it just in case the other party claims we we trying to avoid detection or should we just sit still.
We are not trying to avoid our obligation to the third party if ever they should claim, just leaving our options open by not informaing our insurance company so that if the bill is low (ish) we can pay for it ourselves and leave the NCB as is.
Thanks
PS - It was not windy on Tuesday so VERY unlikely that the note blew away. The car was gone about an hour later when my wife went back to get the reg number.
Edited by a900ss on 02/08/2009 at 19:43
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The law only comes into play here if the collision occurred on a 'road', when the driver must stop and supply name and address. If not done for any reason it should be reported to the police asap and in any case within 24 hours, so there might be a small problem here as a phone number is not a name and address and it hasn't been reported within 24 hours.
If the scrape was off-road, e.g. in a car park then no police involvement at all. I wouldn't want to make matters worse here, but you might be lucky enough to come across a police officer who would apply commonsense and realise that your wife did do her best within the limits of her knowledge at the time and did actually go back to try to get the reg. no. of the other car. On the other hand, given the target-driven jobsworth mentality nowadays and adoption of the Jim Davidson school of policing (Nick, Nick), who knows?
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The law only comes into play here if the collision occurred on a 'road' when the driver must stop and supply name and address.
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Not so.
The same rules apply to all vehicle collisions, be they on road or on private property. In any case, a car park is covered by the Road Traffic Act if it is a place to which the public has access. You could be prosecuted for drink driving, no licence, insurance etc just as you could on the public highway.
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The Road Traffic Act for about 15 years has included all areas, such as supermarket car parks, which are regularly used by the public.
In fact it's been discussed in these forums previously. Some examples:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=24786&...f
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=63772
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The fact that the other party has not been in touch for five days suggests to me they never will be.
Could be many reasons for that, and it's bound to play on your mind a little bit, but I don't suppose you will ever know why you've heard nothing.
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In August,the other party may well be on holiday;surely the law requires the accident to be reported to the police within 24 hours.
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Forget it.
You did what was reasonable at the time. How much damage have had done to your vehicles that the perpetrators didn't admit to? Swings and roundabouts, what goes round, comes around etc.
I've done what you've done, and had to pay for it. I'll do it again, despite having received several knocks that no-one's admitted to.
A 'holier than thou' approach means I can hold my head up in public.
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the law states that in an accident and there has been no EXCHANGE of names and addresses, then it should be reported to police 'as soon as is reasonably practicable and in any case within 24 hours'...so the 24 hour bit only comes into it if you've a reasonable excuse why you couldn't go before.
there's stated cases (previous court cases) where there has been leeway with the exchanging of details and they tend to suggest that if you've made a reasonable effort to supply your details then that would suffice
my suggestion would be to report it now (late) and state that you consider that technically you've complied with the law by leaving the details at the time...but just to make sure as you've had no contact from the other party that you'd like to cover your angles...in case kids or pranksters removed the note.
chances are you'll never hear anything more, because the other party won't bother reporting it to police
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Its not down to them to contact you, your not going to fix the car. They'd contact their insurance company with your details. Since you've not informed the police or informed your insurance it would be treated as a "fail to stop damage only". Likely your insurance would be voided and you'd get loaded up with points.
You can't just leave a phone number on a car you've hit! i certainly would not want to speak to anyone other than the police or insurance.
Go back and leave your name and address and inform insurance and get their advice!
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Go back and leave your name and address >>
How is he going to achieve that when the car had left upon his return
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You can't just leave a phone number on a car you've hit! i certainly would not want to speak to anyone other than the police or insurance.
Well i and most normal people would, gratified that someone had the decency to come clean.
So in order to keep insurance premiums reasonable for a honest driver who made a mistake, i would gladly speak to them to arrange convenient repairs to my car.
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Well i and most normal people would gratified that someone had the decency to come clean. So in order to keep insurance premiums reasonable for a honest driver who made a mistake i would gladly speak to them to arrange convenient repairs to my car.
That's your own personnel opinion but in terms of the law and keeping your insurance valid, they still should have reported it to the police and insurance. You don't even need to leave details at the scene unless someone relevent asks for them.
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OP: "We don't want to inform her insurance company at this point..."
I understood there is no option here - isn't there an obligation to inform the insurance company if you're involved in an accident?
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J1mbo - you say it's not down to them to contact the other party and that they'll contact their insurers. That's their choice. they would be wholly within their rights to send the other party a bill and wait for a response. Either party MAY choose to involve insurers but certainly has no legal obligation to do so. there may be a contractual obligation, but that's totally different and would exist in the contract for a different reason.
On the subject of the 'fail to stop and report' offence I cannot see for a moment any officer wanting to push that to CPS nor them being interested. report it to the Police to put yourself in the clear. It's far too trivial for anyone to pursue this aspect.
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The car you hit was probably a company car. If it was, chances are, they couldn't care less and will just get it fixed at the company's expense.
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Or perhaps they didn't notice the note, was was raining and when they turned on the wipers the paper flew free?
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Sorry to harp on about this.
Regarding any obligation (or otherwise) to report an accident to one's insurers, a trawl on the internet shows that insurers seem to expect all accidents to be reported and I quote the following from a "legal advice" website:
"The insurance policy may be invalid if an accident is not reported."
Would one of our legal people care to comment?
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There is surely no obligation to report a damage-only accident to the police, only if someone has been injured?
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There is surely no obligation to report a damage-only accident to the police only if someone has been injured?
There is if names and addresses haven't been exchanged.
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My wife didn't take the reg number of the other car other than it was an 08. >>
Perhaps she will the next time, since if you were to report it to your insurers, this is one of the first things they'll ask.
And if she only left her phone number and not details of her vehicle, then it's unlikely the other driver could progress a claim via his insurance unless he states "by vehicle unknown".
Possibly it was a hire car, and he's left it to the hire company to sort out - but maybe not passing on your wife's note!
If it was a normal company car, doubt the company would let him off without reporting it - our company certainly wouldn't, since they inspect the cars annually!
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Thanks for your comments guys, I'll get my wife to report it to the police today.
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"The insurance policy may be invalid if an accident is not reported." - is against EU law. A lot of these insurance wriggle-out clauses were closed a year ago, when a minimum standard for cross-EU insurance came into force so that people could travel between 'member states' without one member state's inferior cover being a disadvantage to a citizen of another.
To be honest, I would have just left my name and number, maybe address on a note.
Any road up, you could always say you did it with the trolley!
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>>I'll get my wife to report it to the police
I guess we would all be interested in the outcome. As to not hearing, maybe the car was nicked, driven without permission, used to conduct an extra-marital affair etc., so the driver wanted to keep mum.
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And if you do not get it reported to the Police and the other party does, could she prove that she had left details when the knock on the door comes??
Failing to Stop/Report is a recordable offence which means photographs, fingerprints DNA and a Criminal Record number.
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...could she prove that she had left details when the knock on the door comes??...
Could it be proved by anyone else that she did not?
I know the principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' can be a bit of a pest, but it does still apply in most instances.
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strictly speaking the full offence is committed if you don't exchange your name and address. Exchange would include receiving the other parties details, as well as leaving your own. In this case a name and a phone number was left which may or may not suffice as although there has been leeway in the courts as to how much you'd need to do to satisfy this section... i'm not sure a shrug of the shoulders and the explanation 'it must have blown away' would do it
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10% of cars are reckoned to be uninsured!
It might be the car the OP hit was uninsured and the driver does not want to make this known - hence no contact.
Neighbour pulled out from side road, hit car in main road. Exchanged phone nos and heard nothing from the 3rd party,(number given to neighbour was invalid!!) Both cars car were badly damaged!
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It was me!
I thought it was a scamster, so threw the note away.....
;) (for those that are a bit slow........)
Edited by brum on 03/08/2009 at 21:59
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"Could it be proved by anyone else that she did not?"
They do not have to because strictly speaking leaving a name and number on a note does not fulfill the legal requirements under section 170 RTA 1988, which (damage only) is name and address of driver, name and address of owner, registration mark and if ANY element of this is not done to report as soon as practicable to a Police Station and in any event within 24 hours. Section 154 is the requirement to provide insurance details ( a later piece of legislation to plug a gap).
What she does not know is what steps the injured party has taken, witnesses testimonies or CCTV that are available. Inquiries don't normally happen immediately so 4 weeks down the line when a Bobby comes knocking at the door then there really is no defence.
By reporting at a Police Station an incident number would be given then when that knock on the door comes the incident number proves compliance with the law. All tied up end of matter. And claiming that you were not aware of the exact requirements is a bit thin because they are in the Highway Code which we all read for our driving tests.
Its called 'bottom covering'. Failing to 'stop / report' is regarded far more seriously than a little dink in a car park which would not even be on the Police radar.
Again I am playing devils advocate because in this day an age actually leaving your details is something of an exception. As previously said the other party may not even care less.
Edited by Fullchat on 03/08/2009 at 23:11
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Reminds me of the urban myth - Driver returns to car to find smashed rear light and note under wiper reading "Several people saw me back into your car and damage it. They think I'm writing down my contact details now. Well I'm not."
Edited by Dave_TD {P} on 04/08/2009 at 00:42
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By reporting at a Police Station an incident number would be given then when that knock on the door comes the incident number proves compliance with the law.>>
Not when I've tried to report minor scrapes.
Once someone pulled out straight in front of me without looking on a roundabout, and I rammed him side on in my LandRover. He waved cheerfully and sped off. I tried to report it and the police said as my vehicle was undamaged it wasn't an accident.
On an other occasion someone smashed his bumper driving into the stationary LandRover, left a name and address and drove off. The address turned out to be false. Again, the police weren't interested as no damage was done to my vehicle.
I take the point that "exchange" of names and addresses is a 2-way process. But you can only be legally responsible for your own half of that transaction, surely?
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I'm sorry to say that, in my own past experiences, the police aren't particularly interested even if damage is caused to your vehicle!
Injured persons then, yes, they have to get involved, but once they know nobody was injured then they just say sort it out with your insurance company.
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>>I tried to report it and the police said as my vehicle was undamaged it wasn'tan accident.
You were given incorrect advice. If your vehicle was damaged only i.e. the other one was damage free...then you don't have to report. If someone else's vehicle or roadside property is damaged and you don't exchange your names/addresses.... or injury is caused, then you do have to reportOn an other occasion someone smashed his bumper driving into the stationary LandRover left a name and address and drove off. The address turned out to be false. Again the police weren't interested as no damage was done to my vehicle.
Again incorrect. The legislation states 'if owing to the presence of a m/v on a road....etc'. So this covers yours parked unattended. I would imagine leeway was applied because there was no way of knowing if the other vehicle was in fact damaged.
You often get most junior officers posted just for one day to the front counter or civilian staff who don't necessarily know the wider aspects of the law, so unfortunately advice can be variable.. I take the point that "exchange" of names and addresses is a 2-way process. But you can only be legally responsible for your own half of that transaction surely?
Yes. If you've not 'exchanged' you have to report, regardless of what the other person does.
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