|
You don't have the 320d by any chance? There was someone in another forum who owned a current 320d and didn't like the engine, ride and practicality.
|
Like half the buyers of a 3 series I have the 2 litre diesel. Great Engine!
It doesn't surprise me in the slightest if other poster express strong opinions for/against the 3 series. Personally, I'd go for a 5 series next time - better in every way than a 3er (except maybe for parking in Supermarket car parks)
|
|
|
|
A car is only as good as your priorities, so the motoring press can only ever offer an opinion which is neither right nor wrong, it is simply one opinion.
I find the prospect of a mainstream car mind-numbing regardless of how good it is supposed to be as I like a car that has some alternative thinking about it so I disregard all press reports and try a car for myself to see if it fits me, not some generic ideal.
I drove the last model Fiesta, supposedly a good car but quite honestly, I thought it was an uncomfortable, rattly and somewhat cramped piece of white goods. Then I drove an i10 for 50 miles and couldnt find at any time this comfortable ride I kept reading about ( although imressively refined engine ) and having read some owners reports, Im not the only one, so really, the press are about as much help as someone in the street.
|
I think the press by and large over-state the importance of road-handling. Yes to keen drivers like them it may be important (fun), but to many people on the road it is the comfort and ease of use of a car, together with running costs that are important, together with the car not being pig-ugly.
It is often the smallest things that can make people fall in love with a car.
Edited by boxsterboy on 30/07/2009 at 23:53
|
Quite agree, Boxsterboy. Most road testers are young men who drive test cars to the limit of ther ability (as indeed they should in a test) but then base their overall judgement of the car too much on how it perfoms at the limit.
For example they almost invariably prefer BMWs to Audis. So do many people, not least on this forum. But BMWs have to be driven hard to get the best out of them, and there are plenty of gentler drivers, or those (like me) who just have high mileages to do, who like to relax and find an Audi (or other VAG model) preferable in everyday use.
It is of course a matter of personal taste: magazines and newspapers would do well to have testers of mixed age and mixed gender more than they do.
|
|
|
this week's Autocar has a 3 way piece on the Merc 350CDi, Jag XF 3.0D, BMW 530D M Sport...and they ranked them in that order.
They criticised the BMW for it's harsh ride....well what did they expect with an M Sport? In fairness they did state in the article an SE might have been a better comparison..in which case get one of those!
They also stated they would have preferred the 270 bhp Jag rather than the 240. Well surely they should have waited until they could get the right cars otherwise the article is fairly pointless.
|
One that was definitely correctly highlighted was the 1991 Ford Escort.
It cost Ford (or so it claimed) £1bn to put it right as a result of the widespread motoring journalists' criticism.
To its credit, Ford ensured that the first Mondeo in 1993 was virtually spot on right from the start and the Escort eventually evolved into a very respected product.
|
Avant - It is of course a matter of personal taste: magazines and newspapers would do well to have testers of mixed age and mixed gender more than they do.
An excellent point. (A Very good post ... full stop)
We need more real world opinions - still this forum makes up for it.
Westpig - Well surely they should have waited until they could get the right cars
>> otherwise the article is fairly pointless.
Another very good point. I blame tight publishing deadlines.
|
I take road tests with a pinch of salt !!
As an example What car states on a particular car
For
All versions are decent to drive
Against
refinement isn't really what it should be
is there a contradiction there
I am not just saying this because we are on this site but I find the road tests on here some of the best straight forward opinions
I know its just a personal opinion but I do wonder if manufacturers can apply any pressure to publishers
|
What Car's "reviews" are the worst in the business IMHO.
The number of times I've seen them release, say, a Renault review where they've basically commented "the previous car was appalling, but Renault promise this one is better and the indicator stalk is made of nice plastic, so we're going to award 5 stars for quality and reliability", while on the same site grudgingly awarding 3 stars to some Honda, acknowledging that the car is bulletproof by their own survey results but commenting that the interior is a little bland.
I've actually got to the point where if WC say one thing, I automatically assume the opposite. Wouldn't wipe my backside with the rag quite honestly.
|
|
|
|
the Escort eventually evolved into a very respected product.
Only when they scrapped it and built the Focus.
However, it had something good going for it. It was and is used by Ford as a lesson in how not to design car dynamics and is the reson the Mk1 focus was so good
|
The outgoing Escorts were quite well sorted out - I recall two of us pushing individual models hard round the southern mountain regions of France later in the 1990s, after the improvements brought in as a result of the stinging media coverage following the 1991 launch in Athens.
Some of it was down to Richard Parry-Jones, the man who help transform Ford's cars at that time when put in charge worldwide of the engineering for models up to Mondeo size produced by the company; they included the Mondeo and the 1995 Fiesa with the splendid 1.2 and 1.4 16-valve Zetec engines based on a Yamaha design.
Yet he remained a very modest man who was always happy to spend as much time as necessary to discuss his work, especially with regard to ride and handling aspects.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think that the BMW 3 series is chronically overrated.......The engines and handling are good but they are ordinary in most other areas. Very poor ride poor space ugly and dull interiors.
My brother-in-law has just bought a 2 yr old, 23,000 mile 320d M-Sport which I have now driven twice, and actually I can't agree with you on that. It's one of the most complete cars I have ever driven, in my opinion.
The run flats and 18" wheels don't help the ride quality, and it's disappointing that the 2.0d engine for all its guts is licked in refinement terms by the 60,000 mile 1.9dCi unit in the 4 yr old Renault Scenic we sold recently, but in all other respects it's a corker. Goes well, handles beautifully, good feel from the controls (rubbish gearbox aside), plenty of legroom for a car of its size, flawlessly put together, elegant interior (silver trim helps, would look a bit dull without it I agree), lovely, supportive alcantara trimmed seats, excellent driving position, decent equipment levels and just a general feeling of thorough development and solid engineering that goes beyond the interior plastics and trimming. I know why they are so popular.
If I had to pick the car I found most overrated, it would have to be the original Subaru Impreza Turbo. Magnificent engine in a piece of white goods. Never got it at all.
If I had to pick one I found the most underrated, it would be the Volvo S60. I've spent a year and a bit with a high miler now, and OK it's not the sharpest driving tool out there, but on a long commute, who cares? What it is is quick-ish, supremely comfortable, well equipped, reliable, beautifully built, durable, good looking (IMO) and generally satisfying to own. I like, and appreciate good dynamics as much as anyone, but not every mile we all drive calls for it. If I commuted along the A272, it would be different, but I don't.
|
I think that the penny has dropped as to why I don't appreciate the 3 series. You are obviously a good, keen driver (Sincere compliment intended), and I am not. You fit the car - I don't.
(Incidentally, I have the silver trim inside the car. It's still mainly a mass of black buttons on a black background. It doesn't look very elegant to me! But again, that's just an opinion.)
Wanna buy one?
Interesting comments about the Volvo S60, BTW. I've never considered buying one - but comfort is now my joint No 1 priority (along with ease of driving).
|
Autocar can only test the cars that are available. If they could specify a factory build to a precise specification then the currency of the comparison would be long past.
The testers are not all young men but a continuing pool of some of the best journalists, drivers and testers around. I've read Motor and now Autocar since 1968 and many of their staff are working for other journals and racing/testing interesting machinery in their silver years.
Many of the European Cars of the Year were in retrospect wrong and rusted/ fell apart terminally.
|
Too right! "European Car of the Year" - pah!
How can you take something seriously that (for example) makes the Renault Mégane a winner of the Mazda 6 (in 2003)? Or this year, where the Insignia beat the Fiesta and the Golf Mk 6.
The judges need a check-up from the neck up.
|
I'm not qualified to judge this because I don't drive enough different new cars but I doubt I would agree with many of their judgments. My priorities are very different to how I perceive theirs to be. I just don't understand the obsession with ruler flat cornering and massive amounts of grip, I like a car that's comfortable and reasonably safe, if it's a bit unusual too then that's a bonus for me.
Steve.
|
I suspect (I don't own) a Kia Ceed is a very underrated car.
Infact I would go as far to say that the main car makers best watch out as these Korean car makers seem to be improving in the quality / design areas very quickly.
As for the car review's, I take what they say with a pinch of salt until I have driven a car.
What's the point of reviewing a car by driving it to its absolute limits ?
Not everyone drives like that !
Most people just want a car that goes from A to B as cheaply and reliably as possible. bottom line.
If the car tends to look nice and drive well than that's a bonus !
|
I would say that today no one builds a really bad car, they would go bust if they did. Equaly not many build interesting cars so the poor old journalist does not really have a lot to write about.
|
|
Try driving one of these great-handling cars on the limit past a traffic cop, then see how relevant it really is. On the limit handling is for the track, not public roads and the sooner testers get real about this the better.
|
|
Thats why I sold my Boxster S. It was only worth driving on a track - complete waste of time and money on the road as you could never get anywhere near its limits in safety.
|
Just like cars that require mega revs to reach maximum power (e.g. BMW M5), completely impossible even in 2nd gear without breaking the NSL on a single carriageway.
I can't imagine there's many folks that like cruising along in 2nd/3rd on dual carriageways or motorways either.
I can only just reach the full 211hp of my car at about 60mph in 2nd, and that's 6000rpm. Most of that power, is, in reality, unavailable in normal driving.
|
|
I think that the penny has dropped as to why I don't appreciate the 3 series. You are obviously a good keen driver (Sincere compliment intended) and I am not.
Thank you. In reality, I'm probably no better than average, but I do enjoy a car that gives a degree of feel between the controls and the mechanical bits they operate, and I thought the 3 series was well above average in that respect. It's clearly had lots of development time lavished on it in order to achieve that feel, which is always a nice consideration, for me anyway.
Interesting comments about the Volvo S60 BTW. I've never considered buying one - but comfort is now my joint No 1 priority (along with ease of driving).
Test drive one. You won't find better seats in any car at any price. All 5 pot engine range is also a nice touch (super smooth and sound fantastic), and the whole car just effortlessly munches miles.
Go for the auto. The manual 'box (in mine at least) really isn't anything to write home about with a slightly ponderous shift quality and a clutch pedal that has about twice as much travel as it would need to feel slick in action. To be honest, the whole car has a wafty, lazy quality to it that would really suit an auto box.
Low speed ride's a bit choppy and the turning circle wouldn't be out of place on a supertanker, but other than that there's really not much to gripe about, and a heck of a lot to like. An absolutely superbly put together car. Mine's done 147k, absolutely everything works as intended, it still pulls like a train, and it still has the original battery and exhaust.
Cheers
DP
|
|
|
|
If I had to pick the car I found most overrated it would have to be the original Subaru Impreza Turbo. Magnificent engine in a piece of white goods.
Can't agree with you there DP.
The Impreza is a basically a standard saloon that driven normally would probably disappoint.
My son has an RA lightweight import churning out around 300hp with variable 4WD distribution, and i absolutely hate the thing, it doesn't like being driven like a normal car, it's rough, noisy and doesn't pull.
But it was never meant to be that car, drive it like a man possessed, foot to the floor, keeping the revs between 4 and 8K and the vehicle is transformed into a supercar, short of spending 70K on a modern car there is nothing will keep up with it in the wet especially, but the traction involved makes normal car physics redundant.
Overtaking is completed in a fraction of the time almost any other car could hope to achieve, but safely by taking advantage of that unbelievable grip.
I don't drive it in that way, i can't bring myself to treat a car as such, and i still hate the thing, when i've been passenger with him i feel quite ill for some time after, the forces your body has to stand have to be felt.
Back to original Impreza, it put supercar driving into the price bracket of the ordinary man in the street, so it didn't have the plushness and ride quality of an executive car, it wouldn't have been possible at twice the price.
|
|
Agree with the supercar performance and handling of the Impreza, but to look at the things make my eyes water. The interior plastics and styling are extremely poor IMHO
|
to look at the things make my eyes water.
Can't help but agree with you CC, but the price of the car dictated what was possible.
Subaru to their credit saw a huge gap in the market, and the rest is as they say history.
I suppose we all tend to forget just how peculiar those Japanese cars looked to our European eyes, however they were forgiven for that when ownership of such didn't carry the unreliability of some more convential Euro cars.
|
|
|
|
|
|
