shouldnt be inflated for 24 hours so everything cures FT
no idea about london north and going rates
i can only say what i was learnt as a thick northener,in my defence i never dun over a customer wif a bad tyre
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shouldnt be inflated for 24 hours so everything cures FT
Thank you for that information. It's currently in the boot! Two new Barum 88T tyres fitted at the same time, which seem quite good (although anything replacing worn-out tyres will seem better when they're changed, I guess!).
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I guess I wasn't clear initially : the metal stud was sticking right through my tyre, flush with the outside surface roughly halfway across the tyre . When the operative pulled it out ( a sheared steel stud about 4 mm diameter and say 40mm long ) the tyre began to lose air rapidly , so it definitely was a puncture
Should I be concerned with this ' plug ' repair ?
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well now you are talking dangerous if the casing hasnt been fully inspected
why dont people tell the full story?
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was trying to keep it succinct - not too much detail if unrequired.
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it definitely was a puncture .. Should I be concerned with this ' plug ' repair ?
I would be - although years and years ago, it was possible to buy a length of round rubber, a big needle thing, and a pot of glue/goo to repair tyres, I don't think it was regarded as a permenant fix even then... but ICBW.
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It still is-just not in the UK.
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I would be concerned about the repair - not necessarily thinking about catastrophic future 'blow-out' scenarios at high-speed (although these things are alwys possible I suppose), but for the fact that the puncture 'plug' was applied from the outside.
I assumed the idea was puncture plugs were conical in shape (with the 'point' facing out or roadwards) so that tyre pressure couldn't push through the plug through if the glue failed or weakened.
The drill I got was similar to FT above: tyre off, make hole cone shaped (from inside to out), fit cone shaped plug with glue, inflate, leave a short & re-fit. Then check again frequently that plug doesn't protrude or pressure lessen.
This was done free, incidentally, by my 'regular' local tyre-brake-exhaust-general-mechanic
type country garage whom I frequent for non-service items - I still buckle to the 'full manufacturers service record' for standard service book entries though.
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I wouldn't be concerned if it was a proper mushroom plug installed from the inside by a competent person after a proper inspection.
I wouldn't go near a tyre "repaired" with what sounds like a cheapie "get you home" plug.
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your suggestion is not what I wanted to hear - it means I have to front to the tyre shop crew , but I'm afraid you are probably right ... I'll have to phone and get quotes for both incognito before going there ...
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I'd be happy with it. I have repaired many a tyre myself using this kit and none have had a problem. It's perfectly normal to repair your own tyre at the roadside in other countries.
cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3101...8
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cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3101...8
"
THESE KITS ALLOW THE RIDER TO MAKE A TEMPORARY ROADSIDE REPAIR
(snip)
REPAIRED TYRES MUCT BE CHECKED AND PROFESSIONALLY REPAIRED OR REPLACED WITHIN 250 MILES, AND HAVE SPEED LIMITATION OF MAX 40 MPH. SUITABLE FOR TREAD AREA PUNCTURES OF UP TO 6mm DIAMETER.
"
...and that's on a "quad bike", not a car.
The mushroom things, on the other hand, are intended to be a permanent repair.
Edited by FotheringtonThomas on 21/07/2009 at 23:27
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The drill I got was similar to FT above: tyre off make hole cone shaped (from inside to out) fit cone shaped plug with glue
The plugs that National used were like enormous tin tacks, or drawing pins. These look just like them:
www.tyre-rite.co.uk/searchresulttyreRepair.aspx?Ca...7
The white bits are removable backings that keep the patch clean until used - just like similar stuff on bicycle tube patches. The spine is, I think, just used to locate the patch accurately, the seal being the round "head".
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As I see it with an internal 'mushroom' repair the head reinforces around the fresh hole and has about 35PSI pressing it into position. A repair from the outside is not going to reinforce the hole and has about 35PSI trying to push it out.
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I'm sure there must be a British Standard, or whatever, regarding acceptable methods of puncture repairs.
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I'm sure there must be a British Standard or whatever regarding acceptable methods of puncture repairs.
Sadly I think they want a subscription to read them nowadays.
Another thought - I'm sure when I had a mushroom plug fitted at National, it was a vulcanising patch as well - a hot air gun was used for a short while.
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I suffered the same fate yesterday. "Just Tyres" in Luton did a great job (see an earlier post for thoroughness. the "patch" was indeed conical shaped, applied from inside, pulled through and "stuck". The guy doing it really knew what he was doing and was very careful not to get the thing stuck to himself. They display all the right info about what can and cannot be fixed. Other posts suggest "curing" but that is only for "major" repairs normally on HGV etc where the tyre is placed in an oven. My tyre was perfectly road legal as soon as I paid £16:69 (how they arrive at that I have no idea). All other local folk such as Kwick fit/ATS were in the region of £17-£20. Etyres do a free repair service if you have bought from them before, otherwise £20 too. I'm happy with a good job at good price and friendly banter too.
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Sorry MP, been away.
IMO this repair is not of sufficient quality to seal and strengthen the possible damage caused by type of object you describe as penetrating.
The object may well have broken a wire or two as it embedded itself, and then have been happily waggling itself around doing a bit more before the air leaked out.
IMO, the tyre needs to be removed and an experienced tyre repair specialist should spread the tread and examine, also it needs to be looked at from inside the casing.
Your tyre may well need a professional repair involving buffing the inside, fixing a proper reinfoced repair patch (not a glorified cycle tyre repair kit), outside damage scoured off, filled with new uncured rubber, then vulcanised and regrooved and buffed to finish.
I have seen so many cases where the nail/screw/implement/whatever penetrated at an angle and as the tyre flexed the embedded weapon was tearing the inner wall from the sidewall and or ripping the inner lining around the penetration.
And my last sentence is the main reason i will never use a tub of goo and a toy inflator should i have a puncture.
A flat tyre needs to be removed and inspected by a competent person.
Tyre fitters are not usually tyre repair specialists.
I shall start a thread about runflats soon by the way (sorry all) but i saw a rather disturbing scenario involving one of those.
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oh my for a bunch of car blokes some of you are idiots !
all tyres repairs should only be done by a skilled tyre repair specialist with all the correct and legal repair materials , a string repair is used only to get you out of trouble and is never a repair to be used for more than a few miles or in the case of no spare or in a unsafe area to change a tyre ,
all tyres which suffer a loss of air must be stripped and checked for internal damage to the sidewall .
as you all seem to think £17.00 is a lot of money .... what price your life ! ....
do you have a 2 tonne jack ... a £5000. tyre changer the legal mushroom repair , a tin of rubber repair solution .. a wheel balancer at £6000 all the correct wieght and tyre soap to hand ... oh and the minor issue of public liability insurance for repairing tyres .... in the correct manner ...
for a fiver you pay a monkey to repair with peanuts ....
PS .. AND I'M A GIRL !!!! .....
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as you all seem to think £17.00 is a lot of money
Ah (smug), I only paid £16!
.... what price your life ! ....
Oh come on, I've still got to be able to pay for petrol, and beer, and stuff...
and tyre soap
What's tyre soap made out of?
PS .. AND I'M A GIRL !!!! .....
Oooh! A Gurl!
Hello! I'm FT, how d'you do?
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Just for the record femalemanageressoftyreshop if you read all the posts i did indeed say tyre needs stripping and checking as did some others
May i bring to your attention if you are paying 6 big ones for things like balancing machines you are being ripped
look at www.tyrebaydirect.com/ to see real time proper prices and trust me on this i have nothing to do with them
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hello bell boy
tyre baydirect is site you will find on any internet search , try proaline and look you will see what the real industry use , and they dont have a price list on line !
real equipment for real tyre shops ! cant say more than that , but very nice of you to think of my bottom line ...
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>>femalemanageressoftyreshop
>>
Welcome to the forum. IMO a very good first posting.
Good to hear from someone in a critical part of the motring trade.
I agree with your comments so I do not expect to pay peanuts.
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Garage next door has just paid £800 for a tyre changing machine ( used ) and £1050.00 plus vat for a brand new wheel balancer.
Has public liability insurance as well.
You want to pay over the odds for the equipment, don't expect the punters to buy it for you.
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my my you are a funny bunch ! ... with 35 years in the tyre trade i dont buy £800 tyre changers i sell over 150 tyres a day , trust me my money is very well spent , my customers travel in many cases from way out of what be our expected customer areas for the service and skill of our staff , who know all our customers and their cars ..... we specialize in service and the correct goods for the buyer and the vehicle ...... yes anyone can buy cheap but do you want a new set of 20 inch alloys fitted with skill and care with rim protectors or some bloke who don't give a dam....
my customer base covers all the local car dealerships as well as they know we are the best i could blow my own trumpet and name drop but i shan't as customers expect us to respect them and in return we have great great customers many could only wish for !!!! so trust me chaps some girls know best ...
ps thank you for the hellos and some nice comments and yes i did read the above i was trying to reinforce the need to be safe ... they are the only things on you car that touch the road ...
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You have any evidence that the person to which I refer doesn't ' give a dam ". Didn't damage my alloys or the ones on his own vehicle. I too am fussy beyond belief over who works on my car.
First time I've heard that removing rubbers from a rim is a ' skill ".
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Welcome femalemanager.............. your input is helpful and I hope we can call on your expertese. Dont let Mr X wind you up, it would be a shame if he annoyed you away from a friendly forum.
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thank you old navy
very kind of you , i have a very thick skin lol ....... working with men all day makes me used to dealing with PERFECT MEN (thats the name my men give themselves at work all day ) so thank you again and FT ...
more than happy to help with any questions should you have them in the tyre area ....
time is a issue as with most people but i can be contacted via this site if you want any help
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hello mr x ,
lol yes its a skill , trust me dont inflate a tyre that any tom dick or mr x fitted ! glad you get good service from you local dealer..... its a small industry and we all know each other..
best advice i can give is check your dealer belongs to the NTDA then you know that the fitting station is well run has trained staff and can trace all its stock (old stock is a big issue at present , many cheap tyres will be over several years old and not fill new safty laws due later this year )and in this day and age provide you with a bill stating you old tyres have been sent away to be recycled
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I remember when tubeless tyres first came in, and yes, we did think that stuffing a bit of rubber worm into the hole was good enough. I think you could even buy a kit for doing it yourself. But times move on, and I can now see that expecting something like that to be safe for anything other than a cautious get you home is madness. You might as well just leave the nail in to plug the hole.
BTW, why female AND manageress?
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hi again femalemanageressoftyreshop i didnt pull the site i linked to out of google by the way as i use them
i ran my own tyre place for 5 years and know the job too
as for tyre bays holding old stock i really dont believe it with wholesalers in my area doing between 3 and 4 deliveries a day you only need to stock popular stuff, oddballs were always special order.
You still paid too much for your machinery
I leave you with a question,can you use a manual bead breaker and the old alloy spoons? i can and sometimes do,you need to be a little skilled to use these so you dont rupture the beading and is a good technique to instill in your staff rather than always letting the machine take the strain
ps welcome to hj
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...can you use a manual bead breaker...
I've used a sliding hammer bead breaker on a rear tractor tyre.
Not much skill in that, just hard work.
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So FMOTS, if a customer buys two new tyres, do you fit them to the front, or to the rear?
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>>So FMOTS, if a customer buys two new tyres, do you fit them to the front, or to the rear?<<
Groan and audible sigh!
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This is a matter for long................... debate in the industry , the old thnking was on the front but many tyre manufactures now state on the rear as most cars are front wheel drive with power steering and abs etc etc thus giving you more comtrol to the front of the vehicle thus best tyres should be on the rear . but beware some vehicles have diffent front and rear size tyres ,
we advise fit to rear, when possible but if customers want them on the front then thats what we do , customer is always right !
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...but many tyre manufactures now state on the rear as most cars are front wheel drive with power steering and abs etc etc thus giving you more comtrol to the front of the vehicle thus best tyres should be on the rear .
Surely, the opposite? If the front tyres are doing more work (providing drive in addition to the rest..) & clearing the majority of any water when wet, I'd prefer (if a choice was unavoidable..) to have the best in front. Fwd tends to understeer naturally, putting the 'worst' tyres there will surely exacerbate & enhance that - a bit of understeer from the back (with the more worn tyres) of a FWD may even help counteract that, making the cornering more neutral.
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>>Surely, the opposite?
Absolutely unbelievable!
Considering the number of times this has been debated on here, your statement is akin to saying "the Earth's flat isn't it?"
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National fitted two new tyres to the front when I bought them - the back tyres had 7mm and 5.5mm on. I guess if they'd been more worn, they'dve been swapped about.
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Them, if I understand your question!
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Absolutely unbelievable!
Considering the number of times this has been debated on here, your statement is akin to saying "the Earth's flat isn't it?
Do you care to back your remarks up with any facts? At the moment they can no more weight than simple gainsaying. Oh, and do try to be polite please.
Edited by woodbines on 24/07/2009 at 18:11
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To be fair, there has been a thread this year - "Tyre safety : new tyres should go on the rear" - there may have been others, but I don't know.
I was reasonably happy with my new tyres going on the front, because the rear ones still have plenty of meat on 'em.
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Do you care to back your remarks up with any facts? At the moment they can no more weight than simple gainsaying. Oh and do try to be polite please.
As you'll have gathered from some other replies, this topic crops up in a regular and tedious way on this forum. Considering how long you've been posting, I'm amazed you haven't been involved in one of the exchanges before. Hence, I thought you were trolling, like some other esteemed contributors clearly are doing!
I've reached the point where I can't be bothered typing out the replies to this anymore. My views on the subject can be found via the forum search if you think they're worth reading. My views all fall under the general logic of rear axle stability being *much* more important than front axle stability for cars for both tyres and brakes - despite this sounding wrong, it's true!
Generally, tyre manufacturers and vehicle manufacturers recomend keeping the best rubber on the rear axle. There are exceptions, but, generally, this advice is correct.
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Absolutely unbelievable!
You know what is said about a little knowledge, fortunately most people take the experts (tyre manufacturers) advice.
Edited by Old Navy on 24/07/2009 at 18:16
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Considering the number of times this has been debated on here, your statement is akin to saying "the Earth's flat isn't it?" >>
I guess Mapmaker succeeded in his fishing exercise, even though "mjm" gave it away.
To give him the benefit of doubt, I suppose "woodbines" may have missed all the numerous threads on rear vs front.
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To give him the benefit of doubt, I suppose "woodbines" may have missed all the numerous threads on rear vs front.
No need to give me the benefit of the doubt. I don't go all the way with the received view either. Tyre tread only improves grip in wet conditions. In dry conditions the less tread the better.
If my rear tyres were on the verge of illegality I might in some cars put the new ones at the back instead. Generally I wouldn't though, for the simple reason that you only really need maximum tread, sipes and so on for emergency stopping in a straight line the wet, and most of that work is done by the front wheels.
I don't presume to advise anyone else. But that's what I think where my own car is concerned. I'm not alarmed by the thought of a bit of tail-happiness.
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don't presume to advise anyone else. >>
You can lead a horse to water but you can't .....
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but you can't .....
No, you certainly can't jbif, especially with a stubborn donkey that thinks it knows what's what and can recognise tyre manufacturers' advice, based no doubt on worldwide statistical analysis, for what it is.
Snort!
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Incidentally, my present car's handbook recommends corner-to-corner switching round of the wheels at intervals.
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Incidentally my present car's handbook recommends corner-to-corner switching round of the wheels at intervals.
>>
Is that to even out wear so that the most worn tyres are not on the back?
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a stubborn donkey >>
Could that be the same smart a-- [swear filter might kick in there!] who may be smarting from the number of times his mechanical "knowhow" has been "corrected" by number cruncher?
Edited by jbif on 24/07/2009 at 19:26
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Could that be the same smart a-- [swear filter might kick in there!] who may be smarting from the number of times his mechanical "knowhow" has been "corrected" by number cruncher?
No jbif, it's the same smartypants who doesn't express aggressive, sanctimonious agreement with every bit of boring received 'wisdom' available.
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I'm not alarmed by the thought of a bit of tail-happiness.
Just dont get tail happy near me, there are enough people who drive like complete prats already.
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I will seek you out for a bit of risky tail-wagging, ON.
I'll be the one in the false moustache and deerstalker.
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Heh heh !! It's been at least, oh I don't know how long, but not very much time has elapsed since this was argued to blue facedness....
:-0
Anyway, I meant to lob this in a while back, in the handbook, yes the Vauxhall handbook for my recently departed Signum it clearly stated that the tyres with the best tread should go on the front.
If all this malarky were true about that being a suicide ticket I imagine there might have been a bit of legal fuss about that. Sadly I no longer have the car or the book to prove it but I'm sure one of you has a circa 2003 VX handbook......
On FWD cars I always have done that anyway.
Sits back, puts kettle on and awaits incoming...
;-)
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IIRC a recent thread gave a link to VX handbooks online.
DD?
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We'll argue this front or rear new tyre thing till we're blue in the face and still disagree.
Some will do as they're told good for them, some will do as think best good for them too.
I'll still put new tyres on the front of a FWD and the rear of a RWD, and i'll still be doing that when they shift the goal posts next time too.
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Red wine causes cancer
Red wine helps prevent cancer
The two sides argue it out and both claim to have research from experts to back their claim.
So it is with the tyre front or rear argument.
If it's purely a matter of getting more wear out of them, why worry. If it's a case of one option being possible life threatening, then let some one in govt decide, after all they know best.
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>>So it is with the tyre front or rear argument.
Not so Mr X.
I suspect OldSkool would much rather have had good tyres on the back axle of the hire car he was in the other day.
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I'm sort of glad you posted tonight GB. Just been for a swim at our local health club thingy. There was a car transporter parked up for the night ( no cars on it ) on the access road to the club with the cab curtains closed.
I was, for some strange reason, very tempted to knock on the door and shout "Gordon?"
Quite a good job I didn't really.....
;-)
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I was for some strange reason very tempted to knock on the door and shout "Gordon?"
It wasn't i young Humph, i'd have probably been lurking in some hostelry at that time having a large one whilst reading a Dean Koontz (and clocking the scenery) to while away the time pleasantly....but not on a Friday night if you please..home with my lovely.
So if you do shout Gordon...i'll reply ice and a slice please and make it a double..;)
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"the Earth's flat isn't it?"
Here in Norfolk we still lean to that view
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i sell over 150 tyres a day ...........
If it isn't a trade secret, how many tyre changing machines have you got?
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Such debate, controversy & divided opinion about 'newer tyres front or back' tells me the matter isn't as straightforward or clear-cut as the zealots might think.
In fact it's interesting, that mosted heated discussions only come on topics where there is no unanimous answer - in that sense NC's allusion to 'flat earther's' was singularly inappropriate. The Flat Earth Society is no more! The Sphere-ists have clearly won!
There's nowt more frustrating for a scientist or engineer than having a paucity of facts - it's enough to make them go all irrational & become more like blind acolytes to their cause than reasonable weighers of evidence.
I'd wager the real answer is that it doesn't make much difference either way. Given the many different conditions & circumstances a vehicle & driver might find themselves in, I'm sure there are times when better tyres on the front would have mitigated the situation - vice versa too of course!
I have, incidentally, read many posts/threads on this on the site on the subject & seen the 'learned' answers of some - but remain unconvinced there is a unversally correct answer to cover all situations & contigencies.
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I still don't see that repairing my own tyres from the outside is a problem. The repairs are as sound as a pound, as the string gathers up on the inside to form a knot soaked in the putty and adhesive. Even if it does fail it would be no more likely or worse than just running over another nail. Obviously I am talking about small prick punctures than close up, not gashes big holes. Anyone who watches the Police programmes with cars which have had a stinger deployed on them will know that a modern car with independent suspension will take running on flats and even bare rims in it's stride. e.g.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNFpRRYO65A
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Taking a tyre of for a repair is a good opportunity to inspect the inside of the tyre.
Im assuming Hamsafar your way of repairing the tyre is if you come out on a morning and the tyre has gone down overnight? ,however ,if you mean you were driving and the tyre went down then there is quite possibly internal damage caused by heat build up and the rim attacking the sidewall
frankly i think your logic is flawed and dangerous
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I still don't see that repairing my own tyres from the outside is a problem.
The trouble Hams, and my first years at work (before and after leaving school) was with a tyre repair specialist, is that until you examine a tyre properly from the inside you have no idea just what the damage really is....car tyres included.
That short tack you pull out may well have been 2+" long before, but tapping on the road wore it down steadily as it worked itself out, it may well have been striking the sidewall repeatedly as the tyre flexed cutting the nylon sidewall bands gently with each stroke....a blowout in the making at high speed, not something i'd court.
Having suffered a very rapid deflation of a truck n/s steering tyre approx 2 years ago, probably 20 seconds to fully flat, it was surprising just how difficult it was to keep the vehicle in a straight line even with good power steering, truck empty and in good road conditions, IMO it's the rapid/instant deflation thats the dangerous one.
Purely out of interest vulcanised major tyre repairs completed by the small company i worked for were approved for remoulding by most retreading companies as indeed were Michelins own major repairs...many other repairs spotted at casing inspection time would usually render them scrap.
Edit...BB beat me to it again.
Edited by gordonbennet on 25/07/2009 at 12:26
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paucity of facts
There is no paucity of facts.
That rear axle stability is viewed by engineers and legislators as most important for vehicle stability really is a closed argument. It's only in bar room type discussions with lay contributors where there is any "controversy".
That rear axle stability is the more important is evidenced by these consistent facts;
- in the fundamental sense modern cars all are set up to understeer with a large margin - they need provocation via the pedals to make them oversteer.
- rear locking of brakes, and hence the loss of lateral grip has been legislated against for many years before the universal fitment of ABS became law in about 2004
- tyre companies and most car manufacturers recomend fitting new tyres to the back axle
Now, if tyre companies were saying that you must renew all 4 at once, you could argue that they were saying this to sell more tyres, but, simply recommending new tyres to the rear doesn't make the tyre companies or the car manufacturers a penny.
There really is no debate and no controversy. Flat Earth was spectacularly apt.
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It's only in bar room type discussions with lay contributors where there is any "controversy". >>
Exactly. [ ;-) bar room = backroom :-) ]
Edited by jbif on 25/07/2009 at 15:34
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Oh dear.
My annual visit to France always brings a trip to the local tip.
Every year I find a nail or screw in the tread (either by daily inspection or by listening to the rotational click of what is usually gravel in the tyres).
It happened again today.
Tip trip + 1/2" screw.
So off to the local garage where he unscrews the offending item, sticks the small screwdriver in the tyre to prevent air loss, brings out a length of red plug (meche over here) waves a magic wand & reinflates tyre.
A few euros for beer money and goodbye till next year.
I don't think I was done - and this is the 3rd year in a row going to the same local garage in the middle of nowhere.
I count myself fortunate he didn't get out the welding gear, as he also repairs tractors, combines....
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NVH ?
Are you an acoustician?, structural dynamicist?
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N_C
Neither of these. But I do work with numbers, often in an automotive context.
Not very Helpful, but there you go ;-)
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not one of those dodgy car clockers are you?
they use numbers
"we come to you mileage direct"
normaly failed gangsters who cant get a real job im my opinion
:-)
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good guess, bb....but not even close.
best stop the what's my line before the mods cut in.
On topic: the tyre involved was a Michelin with 3-4mm tread.
I am just off to inspect said tyre and repair with a ?3,89 bottle of Chinon from Super U.
Apologies if I'm not back till tomorrow.
[Hic!]
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>>Neither of these.
Sorry, it was unseemly of me to pry.
I ask because it's an area of design and engineering which I find rather fascinating, but once you look at it in any serious way, extremely difficult and complex - especially at higher frequencies / modal densities where a statistical analysis is effectively forced upon you.
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As I worked in acoustics for many years, (machinery health monitoring, narrowband analysis). I am a self confessed "noise freak". I would notice a nail or stone in a tyre, (at low speed), or any change in the many noises produced by my car. As far as I am concerned a noise indicates a change of load, friction, or another problem like a noise insulating mounting or bearing breakdown. I believe in catch and fix it early and save money.
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i must be a noise acoustician then
having run rubbish cars and listening for the slightest varriation in toothed cam whatsits since i got my driving slate slab its been a pleasure these last 15 years to have cars with low maintainance and a plug chop unnecessary at the side of the road
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Its not black magic, smoke, or mirrors, (unless you are a service receptionist), anyone can tell if their car is more noisy than usual. All a case of degrees of sensitivity. You may remember I said in another thread that my car was quieter after an oil change.
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ON,
You might not like a convertible.
Different noises with the top up or down.
I found it distracting in the first month or two I had the CC3.
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ON You might not like a convertible.
I dont even like sunroofs, any fold up roof in this country is just a fashion statement.
Ultimate fashion statement = convertable 4x4 (with low profile tyres, on thread bit).
Edited by Old Navy on 25/07/2009 at 20:28
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...any fold up roof in this country is just a fashion statement....
Disagree on that.
Bowling around in the CC3 with the roof down is much more fun than doing the same journeys in my previous Focus.
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see the customer is always right !
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What's the best stuff for cleaning whitewalls?
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Don't have a glass large enough, unfortunately...
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see the customer is always right !
Not always, surely? Not if he is demanding something that is illegal, or is being abusive to your staff, or is demanding an unreasonable refund?
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FMOTS's comments were very interesting.
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