I have a 1974 ford transit (Landliner campervan) and am having alot of problems with the way its running. I was given a full service at a garage a few months ago, during that service I asked them to check the carb as several people had messed about with it as it had started stalling at every traffic light.
After the service a completely different air filter was fitted but for the first 100 miles it was going really well. Then at the first sign of traffic it stalled. It started to over heat abit too. The next time I used it a few days later, starting was hard to and problems continued with it stalling and getting harder and harder to start.
Then the exhaust blew (The back box) I was in the Netherlands at the time and they replaced one section of it with something totally different. Starting remained a problem but it was going. Problems with backfiring and stopping continued.
It went to another garage again. The points were adjusted as well as the carb (which it seems was flooding) At this point the van was running as if the choke was out the whole time and when hot the engine cut out for no apparent reason but after a rest would start again. Eventually I had to take it out of gear everytime I slowed down to stop it backfiring and stalling.
A further trip to another garage and Ive been told there is 'nothing wrong with it now the points have been adjusted' again - however on a short drive it is again backfiring and not ticking over in a regular way. I have also noticed it is requiring water alot which it never used to.
I have now been to over 6 mechanics and am getting nowhere and any suggestions would really be appreciated.
Sorry about the length of this post!
Rebecca
Edited by Pugugly {P} on 01/01/2008 at 16:16
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I wonder where the water is going? Could it be your head gasket is failing. I suggest as a first step examine plugs to see if mixture is correct. Then look at filler cap to see if mayonaise present. You could check the static and dynamic timing with/without vacuum to distributor. I find garages much less helpfull than doing it yourself. After all your vehicle is not high tech so the problem should be easy to find.
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The plugs were recently changed when serviced but there is nothing nasty in the oilcap.
Can you tell me if an engine misfiring means the same as backfiring?
The water came out of the overflow on the radiator when I stopped on the motorway for petrol, Ive topped it up once again since then so hope it was a freak leak :-)
I cant pull the choke out anymore either.
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OK good, it doesn't sound like head gasket then. The plugs may be new, but Andrew wants you to take out at least one of them anyway, because you can tell a lot about how the engine's running by their appearance.
It sounds as though the water is not leaking, but rather boiling up and escaping via the pressure release due to overheating.
the plugs will confirm overheating if the electrodes are clean and the insulator nose has a bleached white look.
(The correct condition of the plugs is coated lightly with a light brown deposit).
If overheating, my thought from your description would be that the timing is too advanced.
Adjusting the timing is easy, you just need to slacken the pinch bolt under the distributor, turn the whole distributor a very tiny amount, and retighten the bolt. The problem is the timing needs to then be verified with a timing (strobe) light.
As to which direction to turn the distributor, engines used to have an arrow indicating the direction of rotation of the rotor arm (which is under the cap) and that's the right direction. Only a tiny tiny amount.
Just my personal virtual diagnosis!
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Rebecca,
This is one of those cases where you can't beat having a reasonably knowledgeable friend go through everything bit-by-bit. It could well have been just a case of a simple adjustment to start with, but now that it has been dabbled with so many times there may be several things not set up correctly.
Backfiring (a very loud bang through the exhaust system) can be caused by over-advanced ignition timing. However, overheating is more usually caused by retarded ignition timing.
Misfiring is different to backfiring. It is the engine missing a beat and can be caused by electrical or carburettor faults or mal-adjustment.
A very non-standard air filter may lead to the wrong air/fuel mixture and this could cause misfiring but I think this unlikely in your case. A very non-standard exhaust can cause problems as it can upset the designed back-pressure, i.e. the pressure on the exhaust side of the engine that was taken into account when the camshaft and other things were designed.
To get back to the start, it is very difficult to guide you from afar through the many things that need checking and/or setting. Isn't there anyone in your circle of friends or relatives that is fairly useful when it comes to engines? If not, a note on this forum of where you live might persuade a backroomer to offer assistance. Another job for Volvoman perhaps?!!
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Sound like the diaphram in the old carb is away.
Peter
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It is beginning to sound as though my suggestion is just one of many possibilities. If you - or a handy superhero - do decide to disturb the timing, it would be a good idea to scribe a mark on the distributor shaft and on the engine block where they meet so you can put things back how they were. You should be able to hire a timing light and they may well be able to explain how to use it, otherwise call in at a garage and ask nicely.
Could be some other ignition problem, or carburettor, though.
Unfortunatly these rough running problems are the hardest to call without seeing the car, and even then, as six garages would testify.
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Has the engine been modded to run on lead free petrol? The valves and seats may have suffered some damage. It does sound like you need volvoman or Andrew Moorey to carry out a diagnosis. Best of luck.
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Thanks very much for the responses! :-)
I am just going to try again to get a spark plug out and look at it.
Its not been modified to run on unleaded I use the replacement stuff, is this likely to have an effect (it did cross my mind)
I am really really fed up with garages, the main problem is they dont actually seem to listen.... but thats another problem entirely :-)
this is really helpful tho, thanks again, I will be back when I have more info
Rebecca
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the top of the thread of the spark plug is black, the earth electrode isnt yet. its dry tho.
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What colour is the little porcelain insulator under the centre electrode, Reb?
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What engine is fitted? 1974 Transit - could be the old V4 engine. If so, I seem to remember these have Zenith 36IV carburettors - same as on a Land Rover, and with exactly the same problem. The carburettor is in two halves, with a large rubber sealing ring between them. If one of the halves is slightly distorted, or the rubber ring is shot, you can get neat fuel leaking into the inlet manifold, which is not good for the mixture. Also the throttle spindle wears and makes it impossible to get a smooth idle.
Have a look at the carburettor, and see if you can find 'Zenith' and / or '36IV' in cast letters on the body anywhere. These carburettors are still available new (although set up for a Landie, so will need some modification), or else it should be possible to have yours rebuilt.
Richard Hall
Richard Hall
bangernomics.tripod.com
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Rebecca,
First suspect is the condenser, cheap and easy to replace.
Second is the coil. Then go to the plug leads. I guess it has a vee 4 engine. Inlet manifold gasket could be a problem. Could also be a problem with the Carb. I've known jets to become loose. Check that the choke flap is wide open when choke knob is in. Head gaskets problems and water loss were a feature of the vee 4 and 6 engines.
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I will replacing the condenser, the leads were replaced recently, and yes its a V4 engine but it was going really well, no problems with water loss or anything!!
If that doesnt work Im thinking about getting a mobile tune up person to come out - does that sound like a sensible route to take?
There seem to be too many options to try and work it out myself - Ive never messed about with timing before, I dont want to make it worse than it already is and believe me its painful to listen to when running :-)
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Rebbeca,
Mobile bloke might do, but don't forget that many younger mechanics have never even seen a set a set of points, and if the computer can't suss it out - neither can they. You'd be better off looking for some old duffer in a local garage.
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Reb,
Ref the choke problems, check the cable connections at the carb.
I think the cable is 'piano wire' and prone to kinking.
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... they have never seen a set of points?!! I will remember that :-)
Im feeling less daunted by the possibilities and on turning the engine yesterday decided it probablly cant sound or get much worse so I will go through a few basics - alot of attention has been given to the carb by various people and I have a spare one. With the help of the Haynes manual Im hoping to get that cleaned up and maybe swap it - on a scale of 1 - 10 how would u rate the difficulty and is this something worth trying (after changing the condenser and distributor cap as it looks abit worn inside so changing that too) I remember the condenser going on a previous van and couldnt believe how such a little thing could make such a huge difference!
I also have a question about spark plugs as I have had conflicting information, does the gap need to be set or not?
Thanks again for the help :-)
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On an old engine like that, I'd say a carb swap would be pretty easy (no fiddly emissions or lots of vacuum pipes to get in the way).
Regarding the spark plug gap - set it to whatever is recommended for the engine. They quote this figure for a reason, and I wouldn't trust the gap on a brand new spark plug to be set correctly (it could have been dropped in the storeroom...)
If I'm correct, this V4 engine was also fitted to the Ford Corsair. My late brother owned one of these, and this suffered from fuel evaporation until the fuel line was re-routed. Might be something to consider when doing the carb.
Whereabouts are you in the UK? I know a very good, old and wise mechanic in the Spalding area. He's worked miracles in the past.
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Lots of good advice given already.
I've had two Transits in this summer with very similar problems, straight 4 2.0 OHCs in my case.
You need to get the basics right in roughly the right order, this is how I would tackle it.
Fit new points and condenser, set points by dwell-meter not gap, consider condition of distributor cap/rotor arm and change if poor, check and set/replace spark plugs, examine plug leads/check resistances, set ign timing with decent timing lamp to makers spec (not where it runs best!). Test/check ign coil.
Do valve clearances making sure none are left over-tight, check/replace air cleaner element, check any air intake options for summer/winter positions are correctly set, tune carb with emmissions meter when engine is warm having ensured choke flap is operatng correctly with knob.
Only now is it time to look for faults over and above normal tuning ones if the problems are still there. Next I would do an engine compression or cylinder leakage test followed by an investigation for inlet and exhaust air leaks. Then the carb condition would come into question and so on.........
I would also ask you if you had been running it on unleaded fuel and check it was suitable...doubtful I guess.
Someone will tell me if I've forgotten something doing this while chomping my Weetabix ;-)
*With my Transits one had a completely worn engine with very little compression on two cylinders plus many tuning faults........ the other was low on compression over all cylinders, had bad inlet air leaks plus the wrong distributor/carb were fitted making it impossible to tune properly.
David W
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.......a very polite way of saying David, bin it and buy new?
DVD
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Well DVD if that was what I was saying then yes I would try and be polite about it but.....
More a case of go through the thing with logic and put everything back to the makers settings for a start.
My two Transits were actually two engines in the same vehicle. Owner bought it to me the first time shortly after purchase and I did indeed say the engine needed replacing. Then it arrived again with a similar load of problems but after a replacement engine the chap had done himself!
Where did he get the engine? From a Ford car of a different age down the scrapyard. The carb and distributor were completely different and even when we'd done our best it ran like a pig.....worn out again. Complete waste of £80 for the engine, a day for him plus a mate to fit and my charges to try and sort the tuning.
This time he got the message though and bought a nice 2.5 diesel model some ten years newer!
David W
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This is just the kind of plan I needed :-)
thanks very much, I will let you know how it goes
this has been really helpful
Reb
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I also have a question about spark plugs, does the gap need to be set or not?
Yes. A gap of between 28 to 32 thou is generally the norm.
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Ive changed the distributor cap and rotor arm, both were very worn and dirty - the points and condenser were new.
It sounds abit better already but another bit of the exhaust blown so going to replace all of it now and see what difference that makes.
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for the record, I am presuming being a landliner it is a V4 engine???
these are prone to backfire through the carb when cold (mine does it occasionally)
the tappets are a vital setting on thes engines or they run like a bag of poo, as already stated above check the points clearance, also check the condition of the vacumn pipe to the distributor from the manifold as on older vans this can go hard and leak, also if it is blowing the exhaust to bits have you checked to make sure it isnt blocked? someone could have stuck something up it? I had this done to mine by a neighbour who hated my landliner being in front of his house..
if your still stuck please feel free to drop me an email via my profile
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rottie
That was six years ago; I'd have thought it was fixed [or possibly even scrapped] by now.
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>>>>>>>Mobile bloke might do, but don't forget that many younger mechanics have never even seen a set a set of points, and if the computer can't suss it out - neither can they. You'd be better off looking for some old duffer in a local garage.
This bit made me chuckle!!!
I had a kit car that had a Ford Crossflow 1600 engine. When I couldnt get the carbs to balance (twin Weber 40's) in desperation I called a mobile tuning guy. When his wife took my booking I said to her, "It'll be no good if he is expecting to plug it into a computer as the engine is older than me.......' Thats ok she said, he's been doing this for nearly 30 years.
This guy came out and knew every clearance, torque setting and quirk of the crossflow engine from memory and diagnosed the problem in 10 minutes. He was superb but a dying breed. If anyone needs a PROPER mechanic near Gloucester let me know because Ken Nicholls is your man!!!
Edited by stuartl on 02/01/2008 at 20:52
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Condensers fail in either short circuit or open circuit mode. Their purpose is to minimise the current passing through the contact breaker points. If it's short circuit then you will not have an HT spark, and the engine will not run at all. If it's open circuit then the points will be very badly worn, pitted and burnt, and in a very short space of time too. You can easily check the condenser with a multi-meter, but to be honest for what little they cost you'd be better off just replacing it. Also it might be worth changing the distributor cap and rotor arm as a matter of cause if it hasn't been done already.
I'd say your problem is probably due to a lean fuel/air mixture, most likely caused by an air leak, or the carburettor not correctly set up. Also don't forget that exhaust emission is now an MOT requirement and has been for many years (although a 1974 vehicle might be exempt, I haven't done any MOTs since 1995), and it's fairly normal practice for the tester to lean off the mixture in order to get the vehicle through the test. The unfortunate side effect is that the engine doesn't run quite so well afterwards....
snipquote
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 02/01/2008 at 20:52
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