news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8027109.stm
Fiat Chrysler deal looks complete. Its a savvy bit of dealing by Fiat I think. They get access to the North American market and the use of factories there but are not outlaying any money. They will share their small platform/engine technology as payment. Time will tell but Chrysler, Fiat and the Obama administration all seem happy enough.
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The US Govt the ACE is the biggest shareholders are to be employees and their Union.
Next Fiat @ 25%
The downfall of US Majors was products out of kilter with the new markets AND the legacy costs of Health & Pensions costs taken on "in the good times" - these will undoubtedly disappear in the "New Chrysler 2010 Inc"
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It does seem a big risk for FIAT though and both FIAT and Chysler's recent mergers (Merc and GM) both ended badly.
Hopefully it will work out and it will make FIAT more secure too, I would probably cry if we lost FIAT as they are one of the few interesting makers left.
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Does this included Dodge? I know that both of these reputedly satanic companies are owned by Cerberos holdings (aptly named after the multi-headed dog that guarded Hades) but can find no mention of Dodge in the news.
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Why satanic?
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glad the deals done,well done fiat you likkle cheekies
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I wonder if GM Europe are getting worried about the supply of small diesel engines for their next few models? If Chrysler have a hand in Fiat, there won't be any engines going to GM once existing supply contracts expire.
659.
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I was wondering this as well.
The Vectra had the 1.9 CDTi engine (Fiat multijet) but I have noticed that the new Insignia has a 2.0l Diesel. So is this a Fiat GM engine ?
I initially thought the tie up between Gm and Fiat had ended as I had not heard any recent news.
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the new Insignia has a 2.0l Diesel. So is this a Fiat GM engine ?
From HJ's cbci:
"New 2.0 diesel based on old Alfa Romeo 1.9 diesel that was probably the most troublesome car diesel engine available in recent years. "
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Why was it troublesome ?
I thought the 1.9 CDTi was one of the best diesel engines available.
From what I understand it was available in three power forms (from 108Bhp to 199Bhp twin turbo) and was one of the most widely used diesel engines (Saab, Vauxhall and Fiat).
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Why was it troublesome ?
Looking at the comments for the Alfa 156:-
"On 1.9JTDM timing belt drives waterpump and waterpump failure can fling it off in as little as 40k miles, wrecking the engine."
The Vauxhall suggested cambelt change intervals are between 80,000 and 100,000 miles.
"On 1.9 JTD if the engine smokes or the car suddenly loses power, the secondary butterflies of the swirl actuator valve may have sooted up and seized. Possible to clean but this does not guarantee it won't happen again. Really requires the inlet manifold to be changed as the part where the actuator connects to jams and does not let the butterflies open. Job can take six hours as the fuel pump and cam belt have to be removed to get at it. A coincedental fault is sooting up of the EGR valve. "
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Fair enough.
I didn't know of these problems.
would it be fair to say that the waterpump running of the cam belt is a design flaw then ?
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would it be fair to say that the waterpump running of the cam belt is a design flaw then ?
In my opinion, yes, and one shared by a heck of a lot of other engines.
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I thought if the waterpump went and threw the belt the engine had something that prevented it being destroyed??
EGR valve sooting up is a problem, we have just had our Bravo in (40k miles) for a new one under warranty.
The cambelt interval is now 90k miles by the way!
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I thought if the waterpump went and threw the belt the engine had something that >> prevented it being destroyed??
If the valve timing is disrupted on the vast majority of modern engines, and pretty much any diesel, it will do significant damage.
Generally, when the pump bearings fail, the pulley either becomes "loose" enough for the belt to jump a few teeth, or the pump seizes and strips the teeth from the belt, or if it's the back of the belt driving the pump, the heat from the resulting friction burns through the belt and breaks it. That's without the coolant seepage from pumps in early stages of failure contaminating the belt and shortening its life.
It also turns waterpump replacement into major surgery! A rubbish idea, in my opinion, albeit not one likely to trouble a first owner during a typical mileage/ownership period.
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"On 1.9JTDM timing belt drives waterpump and waterpump failure can fling it off in as little as 40k miles wrecking the engine." "On 1.9 JTD if the engine smokes or the car suddenly loses power the secondary butterflies of the swirl actuator valve may have sooted up and seized. Possible to clean but this does not guarantee it won't happen again. Really requires the inlet manifold to be changed as the part where the actuator connects to jams and does not let the butterflies open. Job can take six hours as the fuel pump and cam belt have to be removed to get at it. A coincedental fault is sooting up of the EGR valve. "
It'll be interesting to see how they do if any of that technology makes its way over here. The American consumer is far less forgiving of stuff like that.
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I assume you mean Cerberus Capital Holdings. Well as of chapter 11 do they own much at all?
But the three headed dog comment is correct.
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News article I read said that Cerberus have given up any share holding of the Chrysler I suppose that means they have just walked away from the debt.
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On the financial part of the "Today" program this morning it stated that Chrysler had now gone bankrupt under chapter 11 and the deal with Fiat is still on but not signed and could take upto a year to complete with Fiat wanting to sell cars in North America within 2 years.Fiat may change its mind and buy Opel and part of GM a much safer bet as Opel actually makes money.
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Why satanic?
You only have to look at their logos....
Winged disk = Egyptian sungod Ra/Horus
Ram's Head = Spirit of Lucifer / Baal
Pentagrams & pentagons
Protected by Cerberos Holdings.
forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=45151.0
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Looks like a deathbed wedding to me. If it happens, Chrysler and Fiat can go bust together instead of separately. Fiat has already said they need a partner in order to survive.
My hunch is that Fiat, if it survives, will end up merging with PSA (Peugeot group).
They all laughed at me when I said we might see Bentleys racing again in the LeMans 24 hour race - but we did, and they won.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 01/05/2009 at 13:02
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Looks like a deathbed wedding to me. If it happens Chrysler and Fiat can go bust together instead of separately.
Agreed.
An old friend of mine used to comment on the previous Chrysler/Mercedes Benz merger that Chrysler simply taught MB how to make poor quality cars. MBs reputation fell off a cliff for years afterwards.
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