Should the button be pressed in, or not?
I only ask because the handbook of the CC3 says do not press the button while applying the brake.
A poster in one the Honda CRV threads has been told the same by Honda.
I've always pressed the button and never had any problems.
I wonder what difference it makes and why the advice not to press the button is given?
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I think they are concerned about litigation if numpties press the button and fail to pull the handbrake sufficient to engage the pawl in the ratchet, therefore not engaging the handbrake.
I always pull with button pressed because it saves wear on the ratchet mechanism.
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I always press the button to avoid wear on the ratchet.
However, some recent Vauxhalls have had the handbrake fail and now advise not to press the button to ensure proper application of the handbrake.
I guess you should follow the advice in the handbook.
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I press down on the footbrake as I lift the handbrake with the button depressed. I then release the handbrake button.
Something I was taught by an RAF Airframes instructor about 35 years ago. He'd taught the Wright Brothers about airframes too, we decided.
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He'd taughtthe Wright Brothers about airframes too we decided.
the wright brothers crashed a lot
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"the wright brothers crashed a lot"
So did we - we got away with some of them by calling them landings, but very few people believed us.
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A landing is a controlled crash.
Anyway a crash is now an "air to ground unplanned interference"
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I press down on the footbrake as I lift the handbrake with the button depressed. I then release the handbrake button.
Yup, that's what I do, only in my case it was a Citroen service dept that recommended the technique when my Xantia went in for a recall.
JH
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When I was taught to drive about 30 years ago i was told to always press the button in to save wear on the mechanism, however the handbook on my new Ceed states not to do it. I am trying to remember, but its a hard habit to break now.
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I do push the button, but pull it up a further click without.
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The standard DSA method as taught by instructors is to depress the button to save wear on the ratchet. This is something that became such an ingrained habit that the sound of a clicking ratchet drives me up the wall now; however, of all the things I have known fail on a car (everything else) the handbrake ratchet has never been one of them.
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of all the things I have known fail on a car (everything else) the handbrake ratchet has never been one of them.
Heh heh RR... although I am an unrepentant ratchet-clicker, I have actually driven a car in which the ratchet mechanism had failed or partly so... Nothing to do with me though. Something nasty had happened to it in the past.
I once applied the handbrake in a Rover 2000 hard enough to make the button pop out though. Very embarrassing.
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Must be an RAF thing, the crab fats taught me to apply the handbrake with the button pressed during several HGV courses. I have used this technique ever since, SWMBO even cringes if I have a co-ordination failure and "ratchet" the handbrake, as do I if I hear someone else doing it, like my daughters. They never take any notice of me anyway. :-)
Edited by Old Navy on 07/04/2009 at 19:47
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Your daughters are quite right ON. I never press the button. It's for releasing the handbrake, not applying it.
This is at least the third time this has been raised since I started frequenting the BR. Yes, car enthusiasts do have a nit-picking, obsessional side that in extreme cases seems to cry out for the attention of a squad of chaps in white coats.
Someone will soon say that the sound of a pawl and ratchet is only made by persons lacking in mechanical sympathy. Like the solid clang of the transmission lock in a sixties American automatic car when it is applied while the car is still moving.
Edited by Lud on 07/04/2009 at 20:04
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Oh Lud ! How can you do that ? I'm appalled frankly.
It's just not......Oh dear......Too long in the sun old chap ?
:-(
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I am variable.
If its nice and flat it gets a gentler button in.
If its hilly its foot hard on the brake and heavy yank upwards hard with the ratchet clacking.
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in the words of a well known song " rip it up and start again"
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When we used to take small wagons to be plated, we always stood on the footbrake before applying the handrake for the handbrake test.
The ministry testers must must have known what we were doing, but didn't seem to mind.
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Was the electric handbrake invented to sooth my racheted ears ?
Too bad I dont like them either.
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One should never clack one's rachet in public. It's just rude. Handbrakes should be applied with due decorum just as gears should be selected with the delicacy of moving fine cutlery through properly prepared meat or butter which has been served at an appropriate temperature. Clutches should be operated with the lightness of foot found in a ballroom dancer. Thus and only thus does the machine become your faithful and devoted servant. Boorishness with the controls leads to early failure of the abused component while respect and delicacy ensures longevity.
Rachet clacking indeed......
;-)
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I'm so much with Humph on this one I don't even see the irony...
We know Lud is a cognoscento, so I put his pronouncements here down to eccentricity.
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.....with the lightness of foot found in a ballroom dancer.
Indeed, Humph - and the same goes for applying the brakes such that the bonnet does not 'dip' on coming to a stop. This always irritates me when a passenger in someone else's car!
As for applying the parking brake, I do this 'clicklessly' in the Volvo S80 - but have no such opportunity with the Mercedes W124 :-(
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>>but have no such opportunity with the Mercedes W124
Simply hold the release lever out while pushing the parking brake.
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I think I tried that a while ago, N_C, but found it hard to judge the required foot pressure. Probably more driver training is required :-)
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Yes, it's a bit awkward!
I confess that I allow the parking brake to click on our W124. I agree about judging the pressure - at first, I found it quite difficult to assess how hard to apply the brake.
However, what I really don't like SWMBO doing is just pulling the release lever, and allowing the pedal to thump back up - I prefer to have my foot on it, and release it in the same way you would a handbrake. I expect that in a manual W124, on a hill start with your foot on the clutch, you would have no choice but to let it thump.
I also like to make sure the vehicle is held against the brake before engaging park - I don't want any load or wear on the parking pawl shedding wear particles into the gearbox.
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Indeed Humph - and the same goes for applying the brakes such that the bonnet does not 'dip' on coming to a stop.
I agree. The most comfortable technique is to think ahead so that you can progressively release the footbrake over the last few yards before you finally come to a standstill. This is what chauffeurs are taught to do.
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The bonnet dips every time you brake, you cant stop that. The trick is to control how low it dips over what period of time and the way it returns to normal by modulating braking. It has to do all those things but you can make it seem like it never happened.
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>>The bonnet dips every time you brake, you cant stop that.
This is generally true. However, at design time, if you were to build in full anti-dive geometry into the suspension *, you could prevent the body pitching.
* there are good reasons not to implement this fully
Even with full anti-dive geometry, you wouldn't be preventing forward weight transfer under braking - you can't prevent the load being transferred, but, you can prevent the body from responding to the load transfer.
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Sorry, AE, I probably didn't express it properly, which is why I put 'dip' in quotes. What I meant was the uncontrolled rebound from the dipped state due to not 'feathering' the brakes off in the last metre or so.
The Snail knew what I meant :-)
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The Snail knew what I meant :-)
I doubt it, firstly he never travels fast enough, secondly all the goo keeps him stuck to the road. I have seen him with a terrible case of body (shell) roll tho - Probably due to the huge contact patch.
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>> The Snail knew what I meant :-) I doubt it firstly he never travels fast enough secondly all the goo keeps him stuck to the road. I have seen him with a terrible case of body (shell) roll tho - Probably due to the huge contact patch.
:-D
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The bonnet dips every time you brake you cant stop that.
Citroen managed it with their hydropnuematic suspension. I once owned a GS and even under heavy braking the nose stayed level. It did squat down at the rear though. Quite strange until you got used to it
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Your daughters are quite right ON.
Have mercy Lud, I have lived in a house containing three women drivers. Thankfully two of them now rely on their husbands to sort their motoring problems (most of the time).
Edited by Old Navy on 08/04/2009 at 00:04
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I always press the button in, taught to on various police courses 40 odd years ago. Never seem to use the h/brake now since going onto automatwatics. Just now and again to keep it free. Are any cars fitted with 'fly off' handbrakes now ? I have a 2001 vehicle which has one, anybody else ?
Ted
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>>Are any cars fitted with 'fly off' handbrakes now ? I have a 2001 vehicle which has one, anybody else ?
I thought the EU elven safety banned them year before that!
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The EU police will have to have a word with Mr Honda then !
Ted
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Your daughters are quite right ON. I never press the button. It's for releasing the handbrake not applying it.
Not if you're in an Aston Martin it isn't (if only). ;)
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I press the button (a) to minimise wear on the ratchet mechanism and (b) to avoid the noise of the ratchet. I've never had a problem of the brake not being adequately applied.
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A theory has just occured to me:
In the old days the handbrake used the same shoes as (usually) the rear brakes, but often only one of each pair, not both. Given the poor leverage of the handbrake, and its not being hydraulic, pushing the footbrake first would have got the shoes tighter than could have been obtained with just the handbrake. In other words most of the pressure was applied with the more powerful footbrake, the handbrake only had to lock the shoes in place.
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......... pushing the footbrake first would have got the shoes tighter than could have been obtained with just the handbrake. In other words most of the pressure was applied with the more powerful footbrake the handbrake only had to lock the shoes in place.
Once the footbrake was released, wouldn't the elasticity of the handbrake cable result in the braking force being the same as if the footbrake hadn't been applied first?
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I don't think so. It's easier to hold something with a stretchy rope than it is to tighten it in the first place. Try staking a small tree upright to a post. It's a lot easier if someone else pushes the tree upright first, then you tie it to the post, than if you try and pull the tree with the cord.
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...Once the footbrake was released, wouldn't the elasticity of the handbrake cable result in the braking force being the same as if the footbrake hadn't been applied first?...
Can't say why this is not so, but standing on the footbrake before applying the handbrake does result in more brake force from the handbrake.
Perhaps the method lets you get one click more.
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I have always just yanked it up tight. But ALWAYS leave car in gear (or park). I know of examples of cables snapping, ends coming off cables, hot disc brakes cooling and slipping. All these problems of handbrake mechanisms not working, whether manual or electric. Leaving in gear is always a good second line of defence.
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Coud not have put it better myself. Always leave a vehicle in gear (or Park if automatic) as well as applying the hand (parking) brake. This can be considered as a belt and braces exercise.
Remember that if you are facing downhill, the car should be left in reverse.
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To prevent my car from running away while parked and letting me in for heavy compensation payments if anyone is distressed or alarmed by the sight, I:
1 Apply the handbrake with all my strength (a short length of scaffolding helps here)
2 Leave the car in gear or in Park if an automatic
3 Turn steering towards pavement
4 Let air out of all tyres (or remove wheels and replace with piles of bricks)
5 Bury car in shallow pit with wooden stake driven through its ECU
6 Get my chauffeur to shackle it to a substantial tree or building
7 Leave armed bodyguard nearby with rocket-propelled grenade launcher in case car attempts to escape
8 Have car registered in someone else's name at false address in case all the above fail
So far these methods have kept me out of prison. But I fear for the future.
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To prevent my car from running away while parked and letting me in for heavy compensation payments if anyone is distressed or alarmed by the sight I:
Lud you are fortunate and unique as many of these features are only availble in your area
1 Apply the handbrake with all my strength (a short length of scaffolding helps here)
Only local resident in your area drive around with a length of scaffold bar in the car
4 Let air out of all tyres (or remove wheels and replace with piles of bricks)
The free and automatic (you dont even need to request it) wheel removal and brick jacking service is only provided localy
5 Bury car in shallow pit with wooden stake driven through its ECU
The local council have thoughtfully provided suitable potholes for this service, suplemented by your neighbourhood manhole cover removal service
6 Get my chauffeur to shackle it to a substantial tree or building
For Chauffer read "twocer"
7 Leave armed bodyguard nearby with rocket-propelled grenade launcher in case car attempts to escape
Bouncer outside your local shabeen
8 Have car registered in someone else's name at false address in case all the above fail
Standard for your area, along with false plates and "borrowed" RFL.
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Yes AE, the services are a lot more comprehensive in the Royal Borough than in obscure, semi-unknown areas of suburban metroland. And as you rightly point out, many of them are free. Alas, though, shebeens are a shadow of their former selves, undermined I fear by the deregulation of pub opening hours. Haven't been in one for ages.
On a more boring note, when I went yesterday to renew my parking permit there was a nasty surprise. Although the permit for my car has only gone up from £115 to £120 since last year, they have slipped in a £50 surcharge for 'second and subsequent cars in the same household'. We only have one car at present, but our household is combined with the others in our large shared house since it only pays one lot of council tax (very steep it seems too). And the chap upstairs, who lives in the country most of the time, renewed his permit before I did, so I count as a second or subsequent car.
Damn! I suppose he will go halves with me if I mention it. Maybe not though in these harsh times.
Edited by Lud on 08/04/2009 at 15:54
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170 notes to park outside your own house. Thanks for reminding me why I stick to provincial living.
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Plus the VED. Ouch!
I don't want to seem to be boasting ifithelps, but there's the Congestion Charge as well which at 90% resident's discount comes to, er, £210. You can do it by the day or week or some twaddle like that but it's so finicky and bureaucratic no one in their right mind would bother.
The annual ticket gives residents the right to drive in the CZ at any time. I was pleased to have motorised access to the West End again, but I hardly ever go there in the daytime now, only a couple of times a year. Can't think what I used to be doing there practically every day. Certainly not working there after the late sixties, although work used to take me there a lot.
Of course these costs are nothing to a well-paid person let alone a rich one. But to someone like me they can sometimes be a source of anxiety and self-doubt.
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Speaking with innocence of a provincial bumpkin, have you tried bearding Boris on that one Lud ? Strikes me that he might be the sort of guy who would decide to think it preposterous to pay to drive around your home city. Maybe not of course, but might be worth a try, especially if you emphasise the effect on those with more limited resources ?
I expect Boris has a handbrake. ( for thread decorum )
;-)
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Damn! I suppose he will go halves with me if I mention it. Maybe not though in these harsh times.
you need to get in first next time lud.
NB is your home registered as "multiple occupancy"? or is it an "extended family" ;)
Edited by Altea Ego on 08/04/2009 at 16:38
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The local council have thoughtfully provided suitable potholes for this service suplemented by your neighbourhood manhole cover removal service
Lud - Sorry bad news. In the light of the global financial crisis, I have just learned that the manhole cover removal service has been withdrawn.
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Relocated to Weybridge, perhaps? ;-)
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