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Does the clutch take up when you select drive and give you "creep" like a torque converter auto or does it only take up when you press the accelerator? (meaning that with the handbrake on you would select drive, gently press the accelerator, feel the clutch take up and then release the handbrake to pull away)
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Matt,
I have a DSG7 mk6 Golf. The drive engages as soon as D is selected. So as you lift off the brakes ( which you have to have on, in order to select D ) the car will creep gently. With my car the creep is not as "strong" or as fast as a TC auto.
As you press the throttle to pull away theres not really a point at which you can feel the clutch engage, the car just goes.
So I believe if you stop & hold the car on the brakes, you are basically stopping the creep, but the clutch is still partially engaged so is then slipping. I'm not sure I'm right, since I would have thought putting the brakes on would completly disengage the clutch. I see reports that VW designed the clutch to last the life of the car. Fair enough, but I don't know under what conditions.
I don't like the idea of a slipping clutch, so I tend to select N if stopped for some time, such as at a set of traffic lights.
Hope this helps, MM
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6 speed on a diesel. It creeps very well in D or R - enough so when reversing to park no gas required and in 1st it will creep up our cul de sac which is about 1 in 10.
As soon as you stop and press the brake pedal the clutch completely disengages - no slip whatsover.
I also use handbrake and N technique when stopped for any length of time.
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The way mine works is that selecting D doesn't bring 100% power to the clutches as when I remove my foot from the brake but no gas, it will take a short while for the car to move, unlike a convential auto where it is trying to drive all the time. However some people do say that in drive and with your foot on the brake there is a very very low % of power going to the clutches so staying in D may not be best - as mustangman says shove it in N.
I notice it worse in R where you will select reverse, the rear parking sensors will beep but despite a bit of gas there is nothing there for a second or two then drive comes in and back you go.
The way I see it, if DSG brought instant power then there wouldn't be the option of hill hold - mine has it and on a hill the brakes will stay on for a couple of seconds or when I apply the gas (whichever is sooner). A convential auto would hold.
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Thanks guys, have been intrigued by this box for a while and must try one.
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Had a DSG diesel, now have a petrol TC, and notice no difference apart from the former being less "revvy" as it had 6 gears as opposed to four now.
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Citroen/Peugeot have a similar automated manual gearbox. We were told by the salesman to engage neutral when stationary and drive the car pretty much as you would a manual (neutral when waiting at lights).
Edited by gmac on 28/03/2009 at 22:58
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With repect gmac the DSG with the twin clutch setup is a completely different piece of kit to the automated manual that the Pug has. Personally I loathe clutchless manuals, meaning the clutch is hydraulically operated.
I mention the creep because with a TC you can hold the car in drive for a while on the brakes ie when waiting at a roundabout. Would doing this in a DSG mean burning out the clutches or does the clutch disengage. Maybe there is a difference between the 1st and 2nd gen boxes.
Edited by mattbod on 28/03/2009 at 23:09
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mattbod,
I do not know the answer to your question, though suspect the early failure of the Pug/Citroën box is due to people not taking the dealer advice of switching to neutral.
Regardless of what generation the gearbox is, a manual gearbox with a clutch is a manual gearbox with a clutch which requires normal consideration. Would you sit at the traffic lights in a manual gearbox with first engaged for several minutes ?
These are not automatic gearboxes fullstop.
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"Would doing this in a DSG mean burning out the clutches or does the clutch disengage."
See my post above.
DSG clutches have a self preservation system - abuse them and the gearbox goes into limp mode.
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DSG clutches have a self preservation system - abuse them and the gearbox goes into limp mode.
That clinches it - I don't want a gearbox that needs a self preservation system!
I can only see cars getting less reliable from here - unnecessarily complex gearboxes, electric handbrakes, lots of microprocessors, sensors and motors. The peak of reliability will probably turn out to have been the early 2000's mainstream Japanese brands - the reliability of our 2002 Civic and two CRV IIs has been impeccable. That seems already to be faltering with their more complex successors.
Edited by Manatee on 29/03/2009 at 13:31
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My further thoughts on this ( I am by the way an engineer - a proper one ) is that since the dsg box has a friction clutch, similar to a manual box, the only way to make the car creep is for the clutch to be partially engaged. If in D with your foot on the brake partially ie: you still have some brake pressure but the pedal has not come to its stop, the car will still creep. I would like it to be that the clutch disengages completly when stopped on the brakes but I don't think it does. Thats why it N for me at lights etc.
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Sounds like a reasonable deduction to me Mustangman. The gearbox is microprocessor controlled so it would be possible to disengage the clutch when the brake lights are on and the car stationary, but that would affect comfortable low speed manoeuvring using the creep and the brake.
It seems likely that it either disengages on some other condition(s) e.g. at a higher brake pressure and/or time at rest (but you'd be unaware when or if that occurred) or it just drags - not something you'd want to take a chance on if you have some mechanical sympathy.
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"That clinches it - I don't want a gearbox that needs a self preservation system!"
You do when you know it's possible to do racing starts with a DSG box - you may not be tempted, but plenty of lease car drivers are. Too many of these and it shuts down.
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