Evening all, great forum.
Have a small problem...
Had my eyes on an A6 3.0 TDi quattro for a little while and finally found one (2005 model) at a franchised garage.
Asked all the usual and model specific questions I could find including the obvious does it have a full history, to which the reply was, yes, we'll do a computer printout of all the work that has been done.
Fine thought I. Picked it up last week, went away for the weekend and I took a quick look at the service details. According to the book the first service was done at 48k, just before I picked it up.
Now, this raises a few questions for me I'd appreciate some pointers on;
1. Providing this is true, can I reject the car (it is an Audi Approved vehicle)?
2. What sort of damage might have been done by only just having been serviced after 3.5 years and 50k?
Any ideas?
Will be speaking to them tomorrow...
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"What sort of damage might have been done by only just having been serviced after 3.5 years and 50k?"
It would likely have a heavily sludged and prematurely worn engine with scored bearings. Perhaps surviving on oil top ups but with a blocked oil filter - running unfiltered oil through the bypass.
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Perhaps the original service book was lost (happened to me) and they replaced it but neglected to update it with the full history?
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How can a 4 year-old (maybe nearer 5) car have had only one service and still be offered as an approved used car by Audi?
I would ask the dealer about the rest of the history (if it exists) which should be on computer. If not, I think you have every justification for rejecting the car and reporting the dealer to trading standards.
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Chances are the original service book wasn't with the car - is the car ex lease? The dealer will provide full details.
I'd rather see invoices, receipts or a dealer print out than a book full of stamps which can be bought with a few clicks of a mouse.
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I agree with Pat L. OP, did they ever give you the printout? All looks very dodgy to me. Assuming there is anything at all in this "Approved"/"Cherished" stuff (56 checks, yeah right), Audi HQ oughtn't to be too pleased.
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Sorry, 3 year-old (maybe nearer 4)!
If there's no evidence of other services I would definitely reject the car and kick up a fuss - claim compensation for wasted time etc. And yes, one woud hope Audi UK would be interested in what, in reality, passes as an approved used Audi.
Pease let us know how you get on.
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Surely the pack of the services to almost 50k were shown on the printout. Seems peculiar that someone would buy a new Quattro and not bother to service it. Was the car sold by the garage who you bought it from? If not find the supplying dealer to ascertain the facts on the servicing and take it from there.
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Its highly unlikely a car of this type has gone that far without a service or two at least.
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OP you are a very trusting car buyer, or maybe i'm suspicious by nature, but i scrutinise precisely every piece of service evidence before i even agree to test drive a car.
I should imagine there's a print out with at least one service lurking somewhere, i hope so anyway.
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Is the previous keeper a lease company, as daveyjp asks? If so, it might be worth contacting them directly to see if they have any records available.
My Volvo started life with Lex, and came with four pages of A4 printouts detailing every service as well as every replacement part, bulb and tyre fitted in its first three years. It has missing service book stamps, but the printout confirms an absolutely flawless service history. Had this printout not been there, it would have looked a little neglected.
Always worth contacting the former keeper. The worst they can do is tell you to go away, although I've always found lease companies extremely helpful.
Sometimes lease companies do not use the dealer network, so Audi's computer system won't necessarily show anything.
I agree with the other advice though - if you can't find reasonable proof of a service history, the car was misdescribed and should be rejected. I would also call Audi.
Edited by DP on 08/02/2009 at 21:23
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Good advice, DP.
In the past I have bought high mileage (100k+) BMW and Merc, both ex-company cars which had comprehensive print-outs. Also the best used cars I've ever bought/owned.
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Would agree with DP, I had a Vectra ex lease and got a printout off them... If its an approved car I can hardly see them not being able to produce the history if pushed for it... so push!
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" we'll do a computer printout of all the work that has been done."
"I took a quick look at the service details. According to the book the first service was done at 48k, just before I picked it up."
So taking these two in turn - staff said they would do a print out, but customer has only received a service book with one stamp?
What about the print out?
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Audi keep a central database of dealer visits - any Audi dealer should be able to give a print out. Get that and see what it says.
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Thanks for your time folks.
Just to clarify a couple of points,
1. I haven't had sight of the printout yet - I have put a call into the Audi garage this morning and am awaiting a response.
2. The car was owned by the Sales Manager's brother (or something along those lines).
Will wait to hear back from the people at Audi - will let you know how it goes and see what needs to be done.
Cheers
A
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...The car was owned by the Sales Manager's brother (or something along those lines)....
Ah, what do they say? The cobbler's kids are never shod. :)
Seriously, I can't believe this car has never had a service, it would have conked out, surely?
Either it's been done outside the network, or not entered on the computer, or the computer has scrambled its records.
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The OP has yet to see the printout; for all we know it could have FSH anyway, just not had the book stamped.
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According to the book the first service was done at 48k ......
What should it have been?
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According to the Audi website................
"There is a choice between time and distance servicing and variable servicing. Please consult with your Audi Dealer to determine which servicing programme best meets your needs. For a vehicle being serviced according to time and distance, services will be required at fixed intervals. Where variable servicing is chosen, sensors located within your engine and other working components of the vehicle will inform you when servicing is required."
Has your car had variable servicing, and if so what are the sensors telling you?
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If its on variable servicing it would have wanted a service at 18k then 36k then 54k approx minimum.
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When i worked in the trade any rental cars that came we were always told to say were ex managers cars from Ford.
Enterprise used to have their name on the log book but then changed it to 'ERAC' (enterprise rent a car). To anyone not in the know it would just look like a company and not a rental outlet on the logbook.
Always one to look out for if your buying. Also the Ford Direct cars (Fords approved used car scheme) are mostly ex rentals from the likes of Enterprise etc.
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Also the Ford Direct cars (Fords approved used car scheme) are mostly ex rentals from the likes of Enterprise etc.
There always used to be a lot of stuff that had been returned under the Ford Commitment scheme with persistent faults too. That was 15 yrs ago, mind and the cars were well prepped by Ford technical people before being sold on.
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The thing to do, of course, is always ask who the previous owner was and ask to see the V5.
Can't go wrong then...
I've had one dealer try to pull the wool and claim "ex-managers" for a Vauxhall that turned out to be from a long-term fleet hire company. I bought it anyway because a) I didn't mind and b) if I refused to buy cars from salesmen who lied or talked nonsense I would never have bought a car yet! ;)
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OK, here is part of the email response I've had so far from the Audi franchised dealership;
"I have checked the service record and it shows a first service at 20000 miles then the next service at 48700 or there about.
Obviously from looking at this the latest service should have taken place around the 40000 mile mark but it may have been a case that the car was not ready for it. As the car has just been serviced you will be hassle free from servicing cost?s for quite some time."
I have yet to receive the paper copy as promised.
On the assumption that I get a satisfactory paper copy of the service, I guess the only thing I should be concerned with is the late second service to the tune of 9k miles or so.
How concerned do you think I should be?
All thoughts gratefully received!
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The car has obviously not been serviced in accordance with the manufacturers recommendations and therefore does not have a full service history
Reject it quick IMO
MVP
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My thoughts are that the (very) late 2nd service puts it in a questionable category as far as future reliability/longevity & possible warranty claims go.
I would question very closely the dealership & AUDI customer services about the implications of this, firstly on the possible deleterious effects of late servicing & secondly on any hassle you might have if the approved used warranty had to be invoked. There's also the fact that future re-sale value might be adversely affected - 28K miles is a big mileage between services, even on variable servicing: if I saw that service record I'd look elsewhere. As you've bought it I'd have thought there must be some case, at least, for rejecting the car as not being up to approved used standard - unless the service interval of 28K miles is proven to be adequate for that make/model.
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If you don't like the car and want to hand it back you probably have some grounds for doing so.
However, to be honest the late service (which might not even be late depending on what the computer said) is unlikely to have much overall effect on the car.
If you like the car maybe use it to pressure them for a free next service or something.
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it shows a first service at 20000 miles then the next service at 48700 or there about.
I have never, ever, ever had a service book entry/receipt/invoice/MOT certificate which said "or there about". I'm sorry, I suspect you are being defrauded. What's so difficult about a plain printout, for goodness' sake?
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Why not just phone Audi (0800 699888) and ask them what their records show in the way of dates and mileages of services?
At least you'll know what the facts are. Any Audi dealer can call up service info and press print as well. It is not difficult.
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Why not just phone Audi (0800 699888) and ask them what their records show
And maybe get them to put in writing that your service history is regarded as 100% for warranty and later goodwill purposes.
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This smells very fishy indeed.
As pointed out above, services don't happen at "about" a mileage. They happen at exact mileages. They should be able to quote a date, and exact mileage.
I have seen warranties declared null and void for cars going 3k overdue for a service. A fleet manager at a previous company I worked for imposed fines on company car drivers letting their car go more than 1,000 miles overdue as a result.
Do you need this hassle? A6s are hardly rare. Go to the dealer, tell them you're not leaving without the documented evidence of the history and a written statement that the warranty is still in force, or a full refund. Their choice. It sounds to me like they are pulling your chain! The only reason anyone pays franchised dealer prices is to save themselves this kind of grief
Edited by DP on 12/02/2009 at 22:54
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Morning all.
Spoke to Audi Customer Services (Janet) yesterday afternoon, who were very helpful.
They called up the record and they show it as only having the one service at 49k as is in the book, though they did say that it might have been serviced outside of the network, which is true but I suspect unlikely as they agreed.
I still have not heard from the dealership regarding the paper printout of the service history - they were going to send it on Monday.
The dealership I bought it from are what is called an 'empowered' one, which essentially means that they deal with the initial complaint to see if they can resolve it, after which it gets escalated to Audi Customer Services (ACS).
Apparently I will get a call from them within 48 hours of my call to ACS to see if they can resolve it.
I told ACS (politely) that if the history is not in order that I will be rejecting the car. Janet said no problem, but make sure it is in writing to the Head of Business in the dealership.
Roll on the next 36 hours or so...
Many thanks for everyones comments to date. It is incredibly helpful to have the opinions of people to ground you in terms of what is likely to be reasonable or not in how you should deal with things like this.
Cheers people, will update you all shortly...
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This is getting more and more bizarre! So what has happened to this first 20,000 miles service?!?! I can't believe someone would drive a brand new A6 for almost 50k without getting it serviced! I think, for piece of mind and the conflicting stories that rejection would probably be the best idea TBH.
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Even more worrying in my mind is that somebody who was capable of doing that probably never topped up the oil! Or inflated the tyres.
p
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" can't believe someone would drive a brand new A6 for almost 50k without getting it serviced"
Someone did exactly that with a big BMW in the USA. Allegedly the first owner had never put it in for a service - the second owner then found an engine that was full of solid black sludge - solid material that is - the camshaft area was embedded in it. There used to be a link on another forum with pictures, but it seems to have been taken down.
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In all honesty I think you just need to return it to the dealership, hand over the keys, and ask for a full and immediate refund. If they don't immediately deal with it then you instruct solicitors.
The lack of attention to detail at the dealership is remarkable. If I was the sales manager I would ensure that any claims made about history matched with the VAG records, which they have instant access to in their office.
Add to that the lack of care shown by the previous owner (if they didn't service it, how else did they treat it...) and all you can do is walk away from it.
Edited by oldnotbold on 13/02/2009 at 17:27
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I can't believe someone would drive a brand new A6 for almost 50k without getting it serviced! <<
my thoughts exactly, spend £32+k on the car, and save £00's on the service ? ?
also ... >> service at 48700 or there about. <<
comments already made,
looks to me like the car is presumably "mint" looking in and out, and the dealer is taking a flyer and relying on Audi reliability to carry it through any potential mechanical problems. Whatever you decide to do, do it firmly with your head, and not your heart, they may not be as common as A4's, but there will be other A6's available.
Years ago someone i knew used to approach a main dealer and say " i am looking to buy a nearly new xxx if you get one in could you let me know? and he told them what he was prepared to spend, and that he retained the right to "reject". He claimed that this approach worked to everybody's advantage. Maybe not worth doing for mainstream models, but could work for this class of car if you wanted to walk away from this one. (different dealer? )
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I'd be straight back to the dealers, politely but firmly asking to speak to the dealer principal to get this resolved one way or the other. It clearly doesn't have the history you were led to believe it has, unless they can produce something othewise. Have you got the V5 back? If so, contact the previous owner and find out what they have to say about it.
Good Luck
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