My friend has bought in October, a 53 plate Nissan Almera 18. SE from a Main Dealer in Doncaster, it had 38 K on the clkock and one previous owner. It seemed fine but yesterday It has broken down.
I seem to remember that main dealers have to guarantee their cars for a period of time, under the sale of goods act.
I have yet to ascertain the exact nature of this breakdown, as the owner is a woman, all she can tell me is that it is something to do with a shaft.
Could it be the crankshaft position sensor ?
In any case I told her to call the Nissan garage that sold it.
I thought these were very relaible cars so its a bit of a nusiance.
Any Advice ?
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The SOGA should cover the car for the first six months. I think this is covered in the FAQ section on this site. It's the garage's problem.
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Timing chains wear prematurely on these, especially if oil isn't changed regularly. The cam and crank sensors then get in a tizzy and shut the engine down.
Nearly a thousand quid repair job.
Good luck with the dealers.
Edited by bathtub tom on 06/02/2009 at 10:05
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From 'car by car breakdown'on this site;
"Recalls
29-1-2002: 34,480 Almera and Primera 1.5s, 1.6s and 1.8s recalled because engine crankshaft and camshaft position sensors may case engine to stall and not re-start. 25-2-2002: Parking brake may not set properly because of misalignment between ratchet and pawl teeth. 26-11-2002: During production, convetor may have damaged front left hand tyre. Tyres on 2,758 cars to be inspected and replaced if necessary. 8-12-2003 Recall of 108,563 1.8 and 2.0 litre petrol engines built 1998 - 2003 over angle and position sensors which can cause engines to stall and/or fail to re-start. Sensors to be replaced"
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Six months would be reasonable, I'd hope. Was the care sold with a specific written guarantee? SoGA applies to all traders, not just main dealers.
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If they paid full retail in October they should have some recourse on a major fault.
However, the mystical "6 months warranty from any dealer" is a very poor guideline in general as the sale of goods act with regard to used cars is open to interpretation.
There is absolutely no blanket warranty in force for used cars as the law, and SoGa accepts they are part worn devices not new.
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... the mystical "6 months warranty from any dealer" is a very poor guideline in general as the sale of goods act with regard to used cars is open to interpretation. .. >>
... absolutely no blanket warranty in force for used cars as the law, and SoGa accepts they are part worn devices not new. ... >>
It is in fact 6 years, but 6 months is the critical time for burden of proof.
www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/buying-selling/...l
see
"A TRADER'S GUIDE: The Law Relating to the Supply of Goods and Services "
www.berr.gov.uk/files/file25486.pdf and specially pages 15 to 18
Edited by jbif on 06/02/2009 at 11:31
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38k its unlikely to be a chain unless Nissan are in the habit of making crap engines. The crankshaft position sensor is a common failure on these, I was looking one myself but was put by this very common fault hopefully it is just that it won't be too much of a problem to put right.
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The traders guide only really works with simple new items. Not second hand cars which are part (or in many cases almost totally) worn out devices with a small percentage of their design life left.
It is wrong and incorrect to post and mislead people that there is some catch all 6 month warranty on all used cars. It is not true as many people have found out to their cost.
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The traders guide only really works with simple new items. Not second hand cars which are part (or in many cases almost totally) worn out devices with a small percentage of their design life left. >>
I think you are wrong. Read the guide again. it says:
"Second-hand Goods - The buyer has exactly the same rights with second-hand goods as he does with new. "
[My emphasis].
It then gives examples of complex things such as cars which you believe are excluded. They are not.
It is wrong and incorrect to post and mislead people that there is some catch all 6 month warranty on all used cars. >>
No it is NOT wrong. You may not like the law, but it is wrong for you to try and mislead people in to thinking they do not have these rights. Read the guide again.
And remember, it is not for you or for me to judge, it is a matter for the courts.
It is not true as many people have found out to their cost. >>
Only if they did not take proper legal advice. The law is there for them to read up on, and then it is for them to take advice on how good/bad a case they have, and then decide to follow up with action in the Court according to how they choose to follow/ignore the advice.
Edited by jbif on 06/02/2009 at 14:39
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... some catch all 6 month warranty on all used cars. ... >>
See HJ's FAQ www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/faq.htm?id=43 for the facts.
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The difference is I've seen this things go to court and in 90% of cases the customer loses.
It is very poor legislation when applied to used cars as it is so vague. The key phrase is satisfactory quality which takes into account the amount paid, age of the goods and circumstances of the transaction.
Some cases are clear cut and generally the newer the car the more clear cut but once you get into the 80,000 mile + 4 year old + sub-£5k sort of cars then it is so vague that unless an engine blows up within 2 weeks no one knows where they stand.
Either way it is poor advice to suggest people rely on it as I've seen so many people get a nasty surprise.
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Either way it is poor advice to suggest people rely on it as I've seen so many people get a nasty surprise. >>
I do not think it is in the interest of Trading Standards, the Consumer Association, or - dare I say it - of the Legal Profession, to give poor advice which results in 90% of cases failing.
If you claim those are the figures you observe in Court, I have to take take your word for it. In saying so, I think it would be fair if you declared any interest you have in these matters from a professional point of view.
p.s. I do accept that many consumers have very unrealistic expectations of all kinds of goods.
Edited by jbif on 06/02/2009 at 15:03
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I work in the car trade so obviously I get to hear of many cases from both points of view.
I have to say though that most decent car dealers will always try and get a happy customer before getting involved in litigation and getting all the way to court is rare.
The main issue is the level of what is satisfactory. The law (and it comes to it the courts) accepts that a car bought for £5000 which was £20,000 new is, logically, 75% worn out but which bits should be worn out is open to question.
If you buy a year old car with 15,000 miles on the clock at full retail it stands to reason that you have far more rights than a £4000 car with 80,000 bought for £500 above book trade. On the latter it would be reasonable to expect it to start or go but would it be reasonable not to expect some non essential parts (maybe the satnav, a xenon headlamp leveller, a central locking solenoid etc.) maybe to go wrong? It would also be reasonable to expect that maybe it might need a new clutch, maybe a turbo would have fullfilled its expected design life at this point and things like this you would have little comeback on.
Conversely, if you bought a 6 month old demo car with 15k and the turbo went it would seem reasonable for that to be put right.
My point is that the law recognises that second hand cars are worn devices on which several parts will have reached the end of their reasonable service life and there is no one case blanket "warranty" which is applied equally.
The older, higher mileage and cheaper the car the less amount of comeback you have and as long as people are sensible about realising this they won't get caught.
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Update !!
The problem was the crank sensor and they replaced the cam sensor at the same time, it cost £280 at the local garage. In the current snowy weather it was nigh impossible to get the car to the Nissan garage, and we want it back in working order ASAP.
I am wondering whether to write to them, but I imagine they will refuse any help as they were not advised immediately.
The car only cost 3K - although they try and load you up with various extras. none of which we took, in fact we got the price down from 3.5k and 6months tax after some hard bargaining, and I don't think I made any friends there. they even refused to put a wiper blade on the back, when I pointed out it's absence.
So we had a few quid in the kitty.
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Thanks for the update, always good to see how these things turn out.
I agree with what PD is saying, this mystical "warranty" is not a warranty at all, it merely means that the car must be of "satisfactory quality" and if it isn't you can get a refund (or partial refund if you've used the car a bit)
Now, I'll bet a month's wages that the dealer's perception of satisfactory quality and the customer's perception differ by an order of magnitude. Yes, if buying a nearly new car then it's reasonable to expect that most things will work for a good period of time, however, as PD rightly points out, if you go buying an 8 year old car with 100K on the clock and the clutch goes 3 months into your ownership you will have a hard time arguing that it isn't acceptable on a car of that age. There is case law to back this up but I wouldn't have a clue where to dig for it.
It's about time that people stopped telling newbies that they get a 6 month warranty on all cars under SOGA, what most people take that to means is "great, if the cd player on my old second hand car stops working I can take it back and they have to fix it.", what they really should be thinking is "great, if something totally unacceptable goes wrong with the car then I have a legal recourse to force the dealer to refund me." Even then they forget that the definition of unacceptable will be open to debate and they may have to be prepared to go to court to debate it.
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