Quote from \"uk.rec.cars.maintenance\":
\"I own a Rover 75 2.0 CDT auto which uses the BMW sourced diesel engine.
According to the handbook the engine oil to be used in this engine should be a 10W-40 or 15W-40 viscosity to ACEA A3 and B3 specifications (I believe that this designates a synthetic or semi-synthetic oil). I have just had the first oil service carried out at my main Rover dealers (my DIY skills have to be put on hold during the 3 yr warranty period!) and the oil they have used is Castrol GTX Magnatec A1 which is a 5W-30 viscosity oil to ACEA A1 and B1 specifications.
Any oil experts out there? Why is a Rover dealer not using the engine oil recommended by the manufacturer? Is ACEA A1/B1 spec oil, better or inferior to ACEA A3/B3 spec oil?
I was given a 1 litre top-up pack of Magnatec after the service. The blurb on the bottle does not make it clear whether Magnatec A1 is synthetic, semi-synthetic, or neither. Does anyone know for sure??\"
Discuss.
--
Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
|
Toad
Doesn't sound like the right oil at all. It sounds like the Ford spec oil.
I wouldn't worry about the 5W, but the top viscosity should be at least as high as the makers spec.
A3/B3 is the higest ACEA spec, for higher loads and extended drain intervals. To reach that standard the oil pretty much has to be at least semi-synthetic. I don't think A1/B1 is as good - it's almost certainly not even a semi synthetic.
My BMW handbook suggests at least A3/B3 for the diesel engines.
Regards
John S
|
|
|
|
For an explanation of the ACEA system visit www.blf.org.uk and look in the publications section.
|
|
|
I understand Magnatec is semi synthetic.
As for the oil in the Rover - I would take it back to the dealer and insist they replace the oil for one that meets the spec for the engine. The 5W won't do any harm, but the SAE30 will be too light at high temps and excessive wear may occur (depending on temp and loading conditions). With the lighter oil at high temps the top of the engine may not get proper feed (camshafts) because there will be increased flow through the bearings.
If the dealer doesn't play ball, contact Rover customer services directly. Their number should be in the handbook. Actually, I'd contact them first to assertain the warrenty position - they may well take it up with the dealer for you or at least give a contact name and number in case the dealer has any "query".
I can let you have Rover customer services number if you email me.
|
Magnatec is a semi-synthetic oil. The A1/B1 spec. denotes fuel economy - hence the lighter grade. 5W/30 is the Ford Zetec spec. but it may be Rover approved as an alternative. I would check with the Rover helpline (sorry; I don't know number). Your dealer may not want to own up to a mistake.
Don't fill with fully synthetic until at least 20k miles, or will risk glazing the bores and burning oil.
|
|
|
|
I can't help with the spec of oil for your engine, but I do remember that castrol always made it hard for people to find out what viscosity their oil was. GTX 30 years ago was not 20-50 as I understand but more like 10-50. Castrol never advertised this because at the time it would have confused people who where just getting to understand that you could have oil that wasn't 40 grade. They seem to put on the packs these days that its for older engines, high performance or modern, what ever that means. I think its still for folk who don't know what oil is, rather than for the majority of people who contribute to this forum.
Bill
|
|
The Rover 75 uses a BMW sourced engine, and Beem recommend Castrol SLX - a fully synthetic 0 - 30W lubricant, which costs nearly £9 per litre (Halfords Charge £34.99 for 4 litres) & to be changed at 13k mile intervals.
|
|
Just had an engine full of Mobil 1 plus filter "fully fitted" for £34 at Kwik Fit - apparently it's their regular price, not a "special". Car is Omega MV6 (3.0). I think Mobil 1 is 0 - 30W.
|
Mobil 1 in the UK is 0W40.
What make of filter do they use?
|
Haven't stuck me nose under the bonnet to find out...it only needs to last me 5k anyway, till the next change.
I'll look tomorrow. Is there a huge difference between filters?
|
The difference is the presence (or lack of) a non-return valve. Without one, oil drains back to the sump, leaving metal to metal contact for a few seconds on startup until oil has been pumped up to the top of the engine.
Might be worth a quick call to Kwik Fit - you could then let us all know.
|
|
|
|
A Cooper's filter, they tell me.
Good or bad?
|
Smokie
Coopers is good. Just thought that maybe they might have used some cheap substandard import with no name on it, that's all.
Thanks
Cyd
PS: 5 1/2 litres M1 plus a filter comes to £52 at Halfords for my machine - guess I'll be going to Kwik-Fit in the future.
|
>>5 1/2 litres M1 plus a filter comes to £52 at Halfords for my machine - guess I'll be going to Kwik-Fit in the future
My reluctant conclusion also...sure is cheapest way I know.
I was lucky cos I had a mechanic who rather liked the car (especially the weheels) so I'm hoping he took good care (except I have grubby palmprints on the bonnet!)
|
Kwik-Fit also offer a semi-synthetic (why do I keep wanting to say semi-skimmed?) oil & filter change which I took advantage of recently, it cost £26 and used Mobil Super S and a Coopers filter. From what I could see through the window a lot of care was taken by the fitter during the process. I shall return!
PS - they also do a multigrade oil & filter change for £18 - www.kwik-fit.com/
Boff
My wife says I don't listen to her, or something like that
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dude
True, my dealer uses SLX, but SLX is ACEA A3/B3.
Regards
John S
|
|
|
|
|
Most, if not all, of the replies to this thread so far seem not to have noticed that the "problem" has been lifted from another website and posted here by Toad with an invitation to "Discuss".
He has set the hare running successfully once again.
|
Most, if not all, of the replies to this thread so far seem not to have noticed that the "problem" has been lifted from another website and posted here by Toad with an invitation to "Discuss". He has set the hare running successfully once again.
Surely that's a good thing 0.One%?
I saw on a *newsgroup* a question that interested me and which has provoked interesting discussion. How can that possibly be bad. Or are you congratulating me?
--
Parp, Parp!
Note: All Toad posts come with an implied smiley.
|
Hi, I'm interested to know if any of you knowlegable people know if Halfords use a filter with a non-return valve, and is magnatec 10w-40 ok for my 1.8 Vectra 1998. thanks in advance.
|
prm
Magnatec 10-40 is fine, but you should find Vx semi-syn 10-40 (recommended often on this site) is probably cheaper. Last time I looked it was about £15 at the Vx dealer. While you are there, you might as well get a pukka Vx filter which cost only£4.
Regards
John S
|
|
Thanks John, I normally go to Halfords for the oil & filter because its £31 and I don't get messy, just wondered though if their filters were the right ones.
|
|
Halfords own filters exceed the minimum requirements of OEM standards. They also have non-return valves where specified.
|
Cyd
Yes, I wasn't disputing Halfords quality, which I believe is excellent. I've been more than happy with items I've bought there, and saved a considerable sum in the process. It's just that Vx prices on these particular items are very competitive, and there's little money (if any) to be saved at Halfords. Depends which is closer to home.
Regards
John S
|
|
None of these replies seem to mention that you may need a diesel specific oil. Additive packages are quite different for diesel aand petrol engines. However, if BMW don't mind which, then perhaps its OK.
|
|
I was told by the guy on the Mobil technical helpline that Mobil 1 0-40 for diesels is exactly the same as the normal Mobil 1 0-40, it's just in different containers. Mobil 1 0-40 is a high spec oil at ACEA B4, one of only a few oils that I can use in my Volvo D5 diesel engine.
|
|
|
Not strictly true. If the oil is rated B3 under the ACEA specs then it's rated for a diesel engine. Most are 'dual rated' eg A3/B3, so suit both petrol and diesel. In many cases a dual rated oil is specified for diesels, for good reason. Early diesels tended to be low revving and didn't put much load on valvegear. Early diesel specific oils took this into account. Modern diesels tend to have higher engine speeds and need 'petrol engine' levels of lubrication for the valvegear, hence the requirement on many of them for 'dual rated' oils.
Regards
John S
|
This was related to nortones post, not Volvo dudes.
Regards
John S
|
|
|
|
|
Toad
This is what you need to distiguish oil specifications:
API (American Petroleum Institute) Classifications:
Gasoline Performance
SA Obsolete
SB Obsolete ‘64
SC Obsolete ‘68
SD Obsolete ‘72
SE Obsolete ‘80
SF Obsolete ‘89
SG Obsolete ‘94
SH Obsolete Jan ‘98
SJ Effective Oct ‘96
SL Effective 2001/02
Diesel Performance
CA Obsolete
CB Obsolete
CC Obsolete
CD Obsolete
CDII Obsolete
CE Obsolete
CF
CF II
CF4
CG4
CH4
Comite des Constructeurs d’Automobiles du Marche Commun (CCMC)
Gasoline Performance
G1*
G2*
G3*
G4**
G5**
Diesel Performance
PD1*
PD2**
Association des Constructeurs Europeens de l’Automobiles (ACEA)
Gasoline Performance
ACEA:A1-98
Fuel economy version of A2-98
ACEA:A2-98
Basic Performance sequence
ACEA:A3-98
Higher performance sequence
Diesel Performance
ACEA:B1-98
Fuel economy version of A2-98
ACEA:B2-98
Basic Performance sequence
ACEA:B3-98
Higher performance sequence
Hope this helps
Charles
|
I also go to Halfords (now trading as AA for the servicing side) for the oil change every 4000mls.
I take with me a genuine VW filter purchased (today, as it happens) from a one-off business that specializes in VW/Audi spares at very favourable prices and AA knock off the bill the value of the filter which they would have supplied.
Reminder...If you are in the AA, show them your membership card and a discount of 10% will be given...every little helps!
I don't contribute very often so may I take this opportunity to wish all readers a safe and happy motoring Christmas.
|
I don't contribute very often so may I take this opportunity to wish all readers a safe and happy motoring Christmas.
>>
Good grief - a very happy christmas to you too, OAP, although this goes against the grain for me, mentioning xmas before december 24.
Just want to ask - is there a certain oil that is suitable for all diesels, or does it depend on the make etc of car?
And also, if I took my car in to a fast-fit place for an oil change, how could I know what oil they were using, without standing over their shoulders? Is it common practice to take your own oil and ask them to use it, or would this be viewed as offensive?
|
|
Would really appreciate a little advice here, please, since at the very least I have to top up my oil soon, even if not change it, and want to use the right thing for my car.
|
Simple answer, HF, is to look in the owners' handbook. You don't need to get any particular make, but if Vauxhall recommends a particular viscosity, use it. B&Q actually has very good prices for oil, including the brands, although occasionally the franchise can be quite cheap (certainly in the case of Ford).
For older and higher mileage engines like yours, a thicker oil is generally more appropriate and you don't need to spend extra money on synthetic, in fact doing so might be totally inappropriate for the engine.
|
Perhaps try having a look in the little flip book thing in Halfords. I've found them really useful in the past, they're really clear.
At a national fast fit type place then I probably wouldn't bother taking my own oil, just ask what type of oil they use, most of them seem to offer different quality oils now and you can choose which one. As you say though, no matter what you pay for, you may not get it, without standing over their shoulder and reading the print on their industrial size canisters there's no way to be certain.
I'm following HJ's advice with the Fiesta to leave the original oil in for the first 10K then get changes every 5K, when I do need a change in between services I'm gonna take my can of Magantec to a small garage that I'm pretty certain is genuine and get them to put it in...
|
Thank you, David and Blue,this is just what I needed to hear.
I will do as you both say, so thanks a lot for the info,
HF
|
|
|
|
You beat me to it, David, good answer.
HF, anything with 30 as the higher number is going to be too thin, anything else should be fine. Diesel specific oils are available, but in fact most oils are suitable for either petrol or diesel.
If you avoid both extremes of price, and the thin oils (sometimes marketed as fuel saving) it's hard to go wrong.
|
LeZebre - sorry your post only appeared after I sent mine! But, as you and David say, I will watch the viscosity, and will bear in mind the figure 30, and make sure I find something less than that.
Thanks :)
HF
|
|
|
|
