Some of you may know of my suspicions that the "4 year 60k mile" cambelt change rule dictated by VAG in the UK may not represent world-wide practice.
The PD diesel found its way to the USA in '04 and as such, many are now coming up for a belt change. The link below gives the VAG (US) recommendation together with some observations from an experienced repairer of these vehicles:
tinyurl.com/6psysb
Draw your own conclusions - I'm far from convinced that the Milton Keynes brigade are operating in the best interests of the UK consumer.
659.
Edited by 659FBE on 09/11/2008 at 00:27
|
|
A friend looks after my cars and changed belt etc on my Golf at 75k (me playing safe as the book says 80) Everything looked perfect, belt not showing any signs of wear, nor the tensioner. Trade price for the belt/kit and other service items £220!
|
This reminds me of the MOT tester's views when before the full revs bit I told him I'd just had a new cam belt fitted (@59,000) on my Audi 1.9TDi.
He took a look at a chart on the wall (unfortunately I was 3m up in the air on the hoist at that point, so couldn't read it) - he said the cam belt change interval was different for the same 1.9TDi in a VW, Skoda, Seat and Audi. The Audi interval was the shortest.
"I reckon they think they can bleed those owners a bit more" he said.
|
|
Re " ... PD engines. On these, as well as the valve camshafts, the belt drives a separate camshaft that works the PD injectors." SFAIK, there are no Triple OHC VW inline fours:) Something must have got lost in translation. The TDI engines are either SOHC or DOHC (on the 16 valve 2.0 litre) both of which have the PD mechanism driven from the same camshaft as the valves. The PD mechanism is operated through a roller bearing on the cam lobes. It's well protected in comparison with the reduced area for the valve lobes directly actuating the valve "tappets". In the case of the DOHC PD, I think only one camshaft has the PD drive duty, but I'm not sure.
|
Correct. The unit injector's rocker has a roller follower and the valves are actuated via inverted hydraulic bucket tappets.
659.
|
It's interesting that the US dealer's letter says 80K miles, but no yearly equivalent.
I've asked before on TDIclub about US belt change intervals and the answer was 100K miles.
I can't imagine they use a different / stronger belt on US-market cars, it just wouldn't make sense on production lines.
|
|
I think though that it is better to be safe than sorry given the amount of work the belt has to do and the disastrous effects of failure especially given our brutal MOT smoke test.
|
I can fully understand your sentiment, but I've no doubt that's what the Milton Keynes brigade hoped people would think when they came up with this brilliant scheme to increase dealer profits. I wish I'd been a fly on the wall in the relevant meeting.
There's a very steep "love" curve attached to cars - they pitched the 4 year period very carefully. It doesn't affect the fleet market at all but private owners have enough "love" left after 4 years to hand it over to the VAG dealer for a belt change. 5 years and most cars would have gone to an independent.
VAG probably pay well under £20 for the belt and tensioners at the quantities they buy - and they don't usually change their crummy water pumps unless pressed. We know roughly how much they pay their "mechanics".
It's a clever scam. I've looked long and hard at my PD and it's fitted with a drive which is designed with strength which is commensurate with the stresses imposed upon it. I would judge the US recommendations to be about right.
659.
Edited by 659FBE on 09/11/2008 at 17:50
|
|
I've mentioned that VW service intervals on the Continent are mainly based on mileage with no time limit as per the UK, but this point seems to have been ignored on other VW forums that I visit.
|
In the US, the average car does apparently do a higher annual mileage that in the UK which is maybe why they don't specify a time interval for servicing ...
As Bill Bryson once observed, any journey longer than 50 miles in the UK seems to involve planning commensurate with a military assault, whereas your average American would happily drive the same distance for a pizza :)
|
Just been speaking to a VAG specialist on this subject while getting a quote for another job. My car is due for this service next year as will be four years old but he said he thinks 4 years and about 45,000 miles is too soon to change the belt and doesn't recommend it. He said that he drives a PD engined car and didn't replace his until 6 years or 60k and said that the belt is strong and he has never known one to go. He said the reason VAG shortened the cambelt replacement dates is because due to long life servicing, fewer cars were coming through the door. He said it always was 6 years.
He seems an honest independent VAG guy with a good reputation locally. He's ex dealer but is his advice correct or should I have this job done next year?
|
VW changed the design of the belts and pulleys to a slightly different profile on the PD engine quite early on due to failures I think you'll find. The latter are much improved, the Yanks would'nt have had the earlier set up.
:o)
|
|
All very confusing this guy I spoke to says leave it and yet on the Briskoda site people say do it and have put pictures of belts with quite bad wear after only 4 years. I will probably get it done for peace of mind.
|
|
It's a clever scam. I've looked long and hard at my PD and it's fitted with a drive which is designed with strength which is commensurate with the stresses imposed upon it. I would judge the US recommendations to be about right. 659.
Sorry to ressurect an old thread, but was wondering if 659 was still of the same opinion, an opinion which I value.
My A4 PD 100bhp has just hit 4 years and covered just 28k since the last cam belt change. Which is more crucial age or mileage? has anyone ever actually had a failure?
Thanks for any replies!
|
|
I've just had the cam belt, tensioners and water pump changed on my wife's Golf 1.9 TDI, which is 6 years old and has only done 25,000 miles.
The garage said the old parts looked OK, I wonder if I've wasted money. But I have stopped worrying that it might go!
|
|
|
|
|
Mine (2.0 TDI) will have done 40,000 when it's coming up to 2 years old (next August). It's on a servicing package - it'll be interesting to see what VAG authorise the dealer to do.
|
|
You should be o.k Avant as it's 4 years or 60K according to VAG if not my local man.
|
I had the belt, tensioner and water pump replaced on my Audi A4 PD 115 at 60000 miles ay my local village garage. I asked to see the condition of the old parts out of interest and they all looked pretty new. Certainly the belt was very thick and robust-looking. As the car is at 97k now I'm not too concerned about leaving the next change until 120k.
However, some of you may remember the two engine failures on my 56 plate Passat 2.0TDi, the last of which was due the failure of a bolt in the belt tensioner at 14 months/14k miles!
So, it all seems a bit of a gamble really!
|
>>Certainly the belt was very thick and robust-looking
As one of the failure modes for cambelts is failure of the internal reinforcement, an inspection of a cambelt is, at best only partial.
So, it only works one way - you can inspect and condemn a failing belt, but, you can never be sure a belt which appears to be OK is actually safe to leave in service.
Therefore, I am not a great fan of inspecting belts themselves - rollers and tensioners, OK, but, it's difficult to give a belt a clean bill of health.
|
|
|
|
My 2008 Audi A3 2.0TDI service book states:
Replacing toothed belt - PD engine 150,000km(95,000miles) with no time interval mentioned.
The common rail engine interval is 180,000km(114,000miles) again with no time interval.
Where did your VAG recommendation some from?
|
|
John, in the Skoda service book they say 4 years or 60K. It was an independent VAG specialist garage near me who said that 60K sounds about right but if the car has only done the 45K that mine will have done by next year (based on my projected mileage) then it would not be worth it. He must be honest as I would have thought he would jump at the chance to do such an expensive job!
|
|
|
Out of interest I still own this car and have yet to change the cambelt, present age 6years3 months and 70000miles. Step daughter's A3 1.9 PD has just had its cambelt changed at 90000 and 10 years, examined the old belt, looked perfect!
Maybe the service book was right!
|
|
|
|
|
|
