I like to think I'm fairly knowledgable about cars but I wasn't sure what to suggest for this dilemma - Budget about £10K for a newish car, annual mileage about 12K, as compact and economical as possible but will be required for regular 2/3 hour motorway trips with five full size adults, two of the passengers fairly elderly so comfort is very important. Otherwise not very interested in cars.
What would you suggest?
Edited by Pugugly on 11/10/2008 at 12:48
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I'd say a Vauxhall Astra or Vectra. Both are superbly comfortable and there are some cracking deals at car supermarkets such as Motorpoint and Hilton Garage. For carrying 5 adults the astra estate has more rear legroom than the hatch, and is a much nicer drive than those horrid mini-MPV's you may be otherwise drawn towards.
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Berlingo has fairly compact footprint,has plenty of room for 3 adults in the back, and is very economical in diesel form, and easily under your budget
Ford C-Max diesel also within your budget, compact footprint, and reckoned by HJ to be one of the most comfortable cars one can by, and very easy to get into and out of, which may be significant for older people.
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In contrast I would have suggested an MPV type vehicle - often the three rear seats are full size and if the ocupants are elderly they may appreciate the ease of getting in and out of a higher vehicle.
£10K would get you into a new (old shape) citroen picasso. Maybe a roomster or berlingo may fit the bill to?
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C-Max
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Another vote for the Berlingo.
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Thanks, can anyone vouch for how comfortable a Cmax is for three adults in the back on a 2 to 3 hour motorway trip?
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I have had quite a number of fords & all trouble free, but I would suggest the berlingo diesel just for more space with 5 adults.
i Doc
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How about a Citroen Xsara Picasso? Five real seats like a C-Max, and should be cheaper than a C-Max
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The C-Max middle seat is narrower, so it can be a bit of a squeeze if all three adults are full sized. I've had three adults in the back of my C-Max, and I'm not sure it'd be comfortable for the middle passenger on a long trip.
It's great for 2 adults because you can fold the middle seat and slide the outer two seats to get more leg and elbow room.
The Citroen Picasso has three full-sized seats in the back, but even in that car it can feel a bit cramped in the back with three adults.
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Seat Altea or Toledo, PD105 diesel in Stylance trim.
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Roomster is a 4 1/2 seater, not 5.... I was in one of those supermarkets a few months ago and they had a year old Passat 1.9TDi 105bhp for 10.5K - I'd have that or Vectra/Mondeo any day over the van-bodied stuff... BTW both the old and the new Berlingos are not all that small, in fact the new one is positively massive!
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You should not underestimate how much more comfortable a convetional family car is to travel in than one of these terrible new-fangled MPV's and such like. Choose an astra or vectra estate, plenty of room in the back and a smooth ride.
P.S. The c-max is set up for handling rather than ride comfort. Way,way better with a vectra.
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vauxhall signum, like a limo in the back, and cheap as low milers second hand
skoda superb is very spacious and comfy for not much money, if you can get a low miler
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Signum alas is a no-goer, it's a 4+1 - the middle seat is suitable for short journeys only, for people 150-175cm apparently. The Vectra estate has a standard 3 across the back rear seat IIRC.
I thought Superb too. Could be worth a look.
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This, from a rival site:
......The seats are comfortable and supportive and there's room for three in the back, though it's far more comfortable with two. The amount of legroom is particularly impressive - it's possible to fully stretch out and there's more space than in a Mercedes-Benz S-Class. It's quiet at speed, while good quality materials contribute to a high quality, airy feeling.....
That's about the old-shape Superb, BTW.
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I agree a Superb would be, well superb but ideally as 'compact and economical' as possible is required and they're hardly compact.
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Anything, as long as it is of Astra size or above.
I honestly don't think you have anything to worry about size-wise.
A Mondeo has no less legroom inside than a Xsara Picasso, in fact the reverse is probably true.
And a Xsara is hardly 'compact' either. Yes it's shortish, but it's an ungainly lump of a car. All MPVs are. And they restrict the view of the road to those behind.
Edited by jase1 on 11/10/2008 at 17:05
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I have a Superb and for four large people it is "Superb", If you add a fifth large person then its a bit tight for width on the rear seat.
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You should not underestimate how much more comfortable a convetional family car is to travel in than one of these terrible new-fangled MPV's and such like.
Own a conventional estate (Xantia) and a Berlingo. The Xant has two very comfortable seats and a third headrest and seatbelt between them astride a largish tunnel. The 'lingo's seats are possibly not quite as comfortable but are absolutely practical and there are three of them. Much more legroom, space for nic-nacs on overhead lockers etc. Travelled extensively in France over summer with three teenagers - they complained bitterly about the lack of aircon but had plenty of space.
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If it must be an MPV, hows about a vauxhall zafira? Based on the astra so comfortable and good to drive, also 2 extra seats that fold flat into the floor - should you ever need them. Good deals well below £10k for year-old examples at car supermarkets.
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The crucial thing here is to try to avoid central humps - on the floor or on thr rear seat or both. \not sure about the Superb, but most non-MPVs have humps. And then some MPVs have a narrower centre rear seat. It may be difficult to get 'compact' as well as room for 5 adults.
Maybe look at the Toyota Verso or Mazda 5 or Renault Scenic or VW Touran? I seem to remember that the C-Max has a narrow seat: S-Max better but hardly compact and you may not get one for £12k.
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Just thought of one. Previous-shape Honda Civic? Massive in the back, compact outside (well, Golf-sized). Not sure how good the 5th seat is though.
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Previous-shape Honda Civic? Massive in the back compact outside (well Golf-sized).
Not quite Golf-sized. I checked the measurements a few years ago, and it's a few inches longer than the equivalent Ford Focus. The clever thing is that all those extra inches went into legroom in the back seat.
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The crucial thing here is to try to avoid central humps - on the floor or on thr rear seat or both. \not sure about the Superb but most non-MPVs have humps.
My old Peugeot 305 had no hump, one of its many good design features. I dunno if newer PSA cars have been messed up by adding one, but it might be worth a look.
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I can vouch for the Verso - and confirm others' misgivings about the C-Max. I'm 6'5" and quite broad-shouldered and five of me would fit in our Verso. The clever thing it (and the S-Max and C4 Picasso and not many others) can do is to stagger the second-row seats independently, so three broad occupants aren't competing for the same shoulder- and elbow-room. The present Verso dates from 2004, and they seem to wear well - I've seen 2005 examples where you'd have to look at the number plates to tell them apart from our 08.
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Yes, the independent fore/aft adjustment of the three rear seats is a great tool for maximising shoulder room. We've had three adults in the back of the Scenic on many occasion and have used this to great effect.
The Scenic's centre seat is slightly narrower than the outer ones, but as with most MPVs, all three are independently moveable. It also has a completely flat floor in the rear.
Edited by DP on 11/10/2008 at 23:18
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One more, slightly left-field, thought - have a look at a Toyota Prius if the elderly people find an MPV too high to get in and out of. There's a huge amount of room in the back, and I think the floor is flat although I can't be sure.
Of course if you want to take five people's luggage as well, then it'll have to be an MPV (Verso, Grand Scenic) or a Skoda Superb.
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The access-height point is an interesting one, People tend to bracket MPVs and 4x4s together for height, but there's really quite a difference, which came home to me when our Verso sat alongside a Volvo XC90 as we waited to board a ferry. The Verso is not that tall - about 200mm more than our Volvo saloon - and a lot of the extra height is above the seats, not below them as in a 4x4. The XC90 seemed huge - my eyes were barely at its window level.
In fact, one thing I like, coming to the Verso from a saloon car is that I don't have to fold myself down into it; nor, on the other hand, do I have to clamber upwards as in a 4x4. Instead, I find I just walk over to it, open the door and, well, get in. We've carried a few elderly friends and relatives in it, who have all declared themselves impressed.
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That's useful to know, and shows what a good design the Verso is - it was high on my shortlist last year. I think my last car, a Mercedes B-class, was untypical of MPVs in that although the seat wasn't excessively high, the floor was, so you had to clamber up into it.
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Old style Civic -last was 2006 Reg
TYPE S - 2 ltr - 5 seater - comfy - loads of room in the back (note-not the Type R!)
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In terms of comfort for 3 adults in the back then I think width is just as important as legroom, in 'normal' car terms then maybe Vectra or Mondeo, most suitable MPVs have already been mentioned I should think, maybe the Honda FRV?, seems a very wide car for its length, so may help from a 'compact' point of view. An Astra is cosy with 3 kids in the back, nevermind adults, Zafira A is a bench in the middle so much the same situation; although I did do a tour of the New Forest with 4 adults and 3 kids ( 1 in a big kiddie seat) in SWMBO's - wouldn't want to go any great distance like that though.
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