particularly from the 3rd world ARE worse drivers
I object to this statement as you cannot generalize drivers just because they are coming from different parts of the world.
I came from India and in spite of having driven 10+ years there, none of the insurers (except Norwich Union & Endsleigh) was willing to accept my non EU driving experience. As a result, my initial insurance premium was £900 for a group 5 car (from Norwich Union - others were over £1500).
Insurers do NOT consider NCB earned outside EU. Since car insurance in other countries work differently (eg. in India, if I insure my car, anyone driving it, is automatically insured), it is very difficult to convince UK insurers to take notice of NCB earned outside EU.
Insurers can't discriminate among different countries - but they do it indirectly by loading the premium for anyone coming outside of EU.
UK is one of the easiest countries in the world to drive - especially if you compare with most Asian countries (except Japan & Singapore) just because 95% people here obey traffic rules. On the other hand, in India, you can't reach your destination without breaking at least 30% of the traffic rules. Naturally, people coming from there, do need some time to acclimatize themselves to UK traffic rules. When I first started driving in UK people honked me often.
Some of the conventions are totally different here. Eg. headlight flash in SE Asia means "I've right of way" and NOT "I'm giving you way" as we follow here in UK. That's why Highway code doesn't recognize headlight flash for giving way :) Another example, in India, it is allowed to turn left at junctions even at red light unless marked as "No left turn".
So, to answer OP's question - yes, foreign drivers do pay much more till they earn some UK driving experience.
However, there are some foreigners who are here illegally and they simply don't bother to insure.
PS: I always wondered why UK recognizes other EU license as per with UK standand even though they all drive on wrong side of the road.
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PS: I always wondered why UK recognizes other EU license as per with UK standand even though they all drive on wrong side of the road.
Probably because of some EEC regulations, now that there is one big happy family of europeans under Brussels!
Moviglo, while I can sympathise with the plight of many folk from non-EU nations, from my wide experience in many nations in the Third World, obtaining a drivers license is more often than not a case of handing over a sum of money to the chap in the office, and receiving your papers instantly.
In fact, you don't even have to be present - a friend can go on your behalf and do the handing over!
In this neck of the woods, insurance is not compulsory.
Neither is an MOT... until the vehicle changes hands.
And GOVERNMENT admits that 50% of drivers on the road have either no license, or have a fraudulently obtained one.
So insurance is a must-have for anybody with two brain cells and a half-decent vehicle.
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>> PS: I always wondered why UK recognizes other EU license as per with UK standand >> even though they all drive on wrong side of the road. >>
The UK isn't the only EU country which drives on the left. There are three others.
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"I object to this statement as you cannot generalize drivers just because they are coming from different parts of the world"
But you can, I do it all the time - on this forum. It may not be pc but it's true never the less. I moan about the standard of Polish driving. They, in turn, moan about the standard of the Lithuanians. Everybody moans about the Ukranians. Drivers from London are different from drivers in Cheshire. Spanish, Italians, Greeks - all different. Russia is just mental. I could tell within 2 or 3 km that I've crossed the German - Poland border even if it wasn't marked. I enjoy driving in Rome, hate driving in Barcelona, love driving in Crete, hate driving in Greece. Enjoy Holland - indifferent to Germany. Like driving in Warsaw, hate driving in Lodz. Not because of the places but because of the drivers.
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>>obtaining a drivers license is more often than not a case of handing over a sum of money to the chap in the office, and receiving your papers instantly.
In fact, you don't even have to be present - a friend can go on your behalf and do the handing over!
That's quite right. Getting a driving license is no big deal there. When I got my license in 1994, I just had to drive 100 meters in straight line. Few years back some newspapers started investigation about poor driving test standard. After that situation changed - nowadays people do need to drive around during the test but still it is at least 10 times easier to pass compared to UK driving test. In some states, it is still possible to get license without ever visiting test center.
In this neck of the woods, insurance is not compulsory.
It is compulsory as per law. Most private individuals do insure their cars (premium never exceeds value of the car as it does not depend on driver). However, most small trade vehicles are un-insured.
Neither is an MOT... until the vehicle changes hands.
There is an annual fitness and pollution test (at same level as of EU standard). However, many people do manage to get around by bribing the officials.
People are rarely caught for minor driving offenses (eg. red light violation). And if caught, everyone prefers to settle it with the cop on the spot for a sum of around £5 or less. However, if you hit & kill somebody on road - chances are you'll be beaten to death by local people on the spot.
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I read an article somewhere the other day suggesting that Muslims made some special arrangement about car insurance as they do about mortgages because of some particular point in Sharia law.
So if they are insuring with their Sharia compliant organisations Muslims, at least, shouldn't have a problem.
At the risk of having a fatwa put out on me I can't help wondering to what extent Mohammed foresaw modern driving problems and how he viewed NCB's.
Is what I read right anyone? How does it work?
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I don't know if insurance do load according to ethnicity/religion/colour etc. or not. But I'm fairly sure that any loading or unloading of premiums will be done strictly to historical results & application of acturial tables/statistics - not because I think insurance companies are saintly & liberal institutions (although they may be!), but because thet simply want to make profit.
If, for argument's sake, one particular insurance did load premiums based on racial/ethnic background without any rationale, you can bet market forces would soon force it to adopt a more strictly business-like approach or face being out-competed & lose business.
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.... Muslims made some special arrangement about car insurance as they do about mortgages because of some particular point in Sharia law.
Optimist:
AFAIK, you can neither earn nor pay interest under Sharia law. I was not aware of the other aspects that you refer to.
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he must mean interest on monthly installments ??
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Optimist is correct, there are Sharia compliant insurance products which an observant Muslim would be obliged AFAIK to prefer, when available, to a non-compliant product.
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adding to my original posting - an easy example is that some Somalis ( and I can distinguish them ) drive like it's Mogadishu central - no lights , no laws .
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Somalis ( and I can distinguish them )
Having spent many years in the region, I still find it difficult to distinguish between most Somalis, Ethiopians, and Sudanese and their various tribes.
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in North London, most people from the Horn are Somalis.
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Happens in Switzerland : was in the newspapers a couple of years ago. Drivers from ex-Yugoslavia pay higher insurance premiums based on accident/claims statistics. It caused a bit of noise but was explained by an insurance specialist on tv that it's simply based on statistics/data, for the same reasons that women aged 40-50 (or something like that) pay less than average...There's nothing racist about it, it's just business....
Any other 'Swissies' remember this ??
In general, common sense still prevails over political correctness here and applies throughout society. Parents can film the school play without being labelled a paedophile, accidents happen without seeking someone to blame (and sue), common sense and basic (Swiss) values take precedent over ideology/paranoi over skin colour, religion etc.....
Reports of crime in newpapers normally quote the ethnic origin (including Swiss !) of the criminal. Fewer hangups over here.........
Takes cover and runs.......
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In the UK it appears to be legal to discriminate over insurance on the grounds of:
sex
age
religion (just googled the Eclesiastical Insurance Group for (Anglican) clergymen)
occupation
place of abode
weight
health
leisure activities
and, as we learn above, indirectly, country of origin.
Only sexual orientation and ethnicity appear to be debarred.
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The types of discrimination not allowed are almost as puzzling as those which are. Lies (urban legends), d*mn lies (stereotypes) and statistics affect the whole picture.
I'd be interested what discount, if any, can be claimed by the following "drivers new to the UK":
1. With 20 years' NCB, 19 in UK, 1 in Spain - now returning to UK.
2. 20 years' NCB driving on the left (formerly resident in Cyprus/Malta/Irish Republic)
3. 20 years' NCB driving on the left in non EU territory
4. 20 years' NCB driving on the right but in an EU country or Gibraltar.
Any feedback from insurers in the Backroom?
Can I throw into the ring here the question of age? It strikes me that there must be a point on the graph where two curves meet, where "experience" (years of driving) works against you as it crosses "advancing years" (been driving too long!)
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When I worked in car insurance in a high street broker - before the days when everyone did it direct - one insurer (a Lloyds' syndicate) had a word - it was "do us a favour - no ethnics."
As for what I did about it - absolutely no comment.
Ha ha.
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