Am I the only one cringing at the wallet busting scenarios concerning FAP and Common Rail, that appear daily on `Technical`?
There`s Screwloose doing a wizards job with often sparse initial detail - you know- a bit of eye of newt and hair of dog - stirred into the pot in an attempt to get the codes, more info and even solid blocks of concrete like text paragraphed.
Sometimes though don`t you just hope that after an initial consultation it will be sent to auction/dumped/given away/ dropped of a cliff - rather than hundreds and thousands of pounds being fed into its ridiculously and pathetically over complex and seemingly unfit for purpose systems?
You know, FAP and particulate filters. What will we think of the current systems in 20 years time? Will it be like looking back at the old Vauxhall Victor rust boxes in the 60`s and knowing they could have been better.
Unless mileage and tax and so on demand it - I`m surprised these complex cars are not abandoned.
Perhaps gritting the teeth for some with regard to loss of luxury and power, but a Fiat 1.1 Panda new, at just over £5,000 has never looked better value with regard to ceasing to dump cash from the wallet - in the fashion of a turbo waste gate opening.
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I'm beginning to wonder whether some cars aren't becoming a bit like razors and mobile phones: inexpensive to get your hands on in the first place but requiring regular forking out of large-ish sums of cash to get the equivalent of blades or air-time.
Edited by Optimist on 18/09/2008 at 12:46
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That's an interesting point. It's the same with inkjet printers as well. The printer is dirt cheap, but two sets of "genuine" colour cartridges will set you back the same as the printer in some cases!
Back onto motoring - yes it's a little worrying, especially with some diesel cars as to how fragile they have become in the march for progress. I wonder how many people have picked up a newish 307 and have then spent thousands on FAP problems, plus clutch/DMF failure as well. Maybe it works well for the manufacturers. After all, if you get shot of one car because of some teething problems, then you're likely to go out and buy another (although quite possibly not of the same make!)
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Could be you're right, Oilrag. Your comment on the Fiat Panda will probably strike a chord with many - although that could be due to the current, maybe temporary, psychology, which is that the world turning upside down makes everything so uncertain (jobs, savings, personal liquidity) that any serious expenditure looks like a bad move and that minimalist is best.
My local MINI dealer has been trying to persuade me to part with almost £20K for a nicely specced up Cooper S. I was never particularly keen on the idea, but now it seems plain bonkers - and plain bad value for money (OK, it always was). I think my 05 S with 21K miles is attractive enough to hang on to.
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a Fiat 1.1 Panda new at just over £5 000 has never looked better value
Sounds good - where from? Just looked at Drivethedeal who are usually pretty competitive and it's £7k there.
EDIT: whoops finger trouble - £5.5k
Edited by Focus {P} on 18/09/2008 at 12:57
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The aforementioned Panda is completely useless for carting around two kids, a pram and a dog though. Unfortunately if you need space and want any sort of performance without incurring big fuel bills, diesel is still the only viable option.
I am still of the opinion that the vast majority of common rail diesels run to big mileages with not much more than routine servicing. Of course, if they go wrong, it tends to involve ridiculous sums of money, but how many actually go wrong to begin with?
A genuine question, I don't know.
FAP is a ridiculous concept, and I deliberately avoided it. Anything which imposes constraints on how/where a car can be driven is not fit for purpose.
Cheers
DP
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Oh, meant to ask: Remind me what FAP is/stands for...? Please.
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I think FAP is the system with the canister of expensive, weirdly-named chemical, Eolys, that is supposed to clean up your diesel emissions.
One that irritates me is dual mass flywheels; if they cant make them as reliable and cost effective as a standard flywheel then dont bother; dont sacrifice reliability for 'smoothness'.
My car has an old tech non-CR engine and no DMF; sure its a bit rattley but so what? Its fit for purpose, it gets me to work and back day in day out without complaint (at 50mpg when careful).
You wont catch me buying a car with FAP either!
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Probably said upteen times before but IMO cars turned a corner in about 2000 ish and suddenly became ALOT more complex. Probably an emissions thing.
There are still loads of new cars out there which wouldnt phase a mechanic from 1990 its just that I cant think of any diesel ones. Petrols fine I can handle them. Having a common rail diesel (albiet with no troubles) has scared me in to joining the RAC for the first time ever based upon the fact that I wouldnt have cat in hells chance of fixing it by the roadside (or at home for that matter)
Gimme a H reg Cavalier 2.0CDi ! The sweet spot in automotive technology!
Heres a thought. - Is it down to self education? I've just got in to using an ELM327 box of tricks and a laptop. In fact, fixed my dads Accord with it. Saying that it was an easy one, VTEC system fault - low oil level - doh!
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davidh
Some self-educational reading for you... [Thanks DNJ]
www.christiantena.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/motor/peuge...m
www.christiantena.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/motor/peuge...l
www.christiantena.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/motor/peuge...l
And that's just the original Bosch version without a FAP - Filtre Aux Particulates - it's all much, much, more complex now.
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"Sounds good - where from?"
Focus, At fiatsupersaver - Panda 1.1 is currently at £5,195
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Thanks, Screwloose, I`m enjoying looking through that material.
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Thanks for that! Really interesting!
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Gimme a H reg Cavalier 2.0CDi ! The sweet spot in automotive technology!
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I could not agree more. Absolutely superb cars - economical, comfortable, very well made, virtually indestructible, nice to drive, and capable of repair in the unlikely event they did go wrong. We'll never see their like again unfortunately
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Agree on the Cavalier. Tragic handling, but otherwise a very good car. That 2.0 8v engine (and the 16v C20XE) were some of the best mass produced engines anywhere. Powerful, smooth, reliable, and capable of starship mileage.
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