Looking at the Focus Diesel range, I noticed they do a DPF and non-DPF version of the same engine. From what I can see there is no difference in the technical spec, so why do they have the two versions?
My reason for looking/asking is that I have a Zafira 1.9CDTI and am fed up to the back teeth with damm DPF problems!
I have a non DPF focus which works perfectly without a DPF. I have the brochure for the car (05 model) and I quote.
"Choose between four powerful yet refined Duratorq common rail turbo-diesels.The 1.6 (109PS) and 2.0 (136PS) are both available with the option of DPF technology for cleaner exhaust emissions".
I dont think it effects co2 only soot.
The DPF equipped engines are indeed less efficient but I wonder how much CO2 is generated during the burn-off phase? As has been pointed out, this is not taken into account when type testing these engines under running conditions.
Soot filters really are a waste of time for most jobs. Thanks to idiot Euro regulation, diesels are not worth having any more for "consumer grade" personal transport jobs - pity as they are the most efficient prime mover. Another case of the politicians messing the job up.
A DPF reduces diesel particulates by around 90% compred with a non-DPF. All diesels will soon have to be fitted with a DPF to comply with the new pollution regulations.
I have a Focus 1.6 TDCi 109ps with DPF, no smoke at all, no problems at all with the DPF, and the knowledge that when I drive I'm not contributing to someone elses health problems especially those with existing breathing and lung problem. I wouldn't buy a car without a DPF for that reason alone, I'd rather pay extra to help someone else not have to breath in diesel particulates.
As for fuel economy that's more down to how someone drives. My DPF Focus gives mid 60s mpg on motorways and A/B roads 70+ mpg.
HJ, the official figures for the ECOnetic 1.6 TDCi DPF 109 ps are :
Urban 50.4, Extra Urban 78.4, Combined 65.7 according to their web site data, however I suspect the Combined figure is incorrect and should be closer to 64.3.
The 90 ps figures are : Urban 51.3, Extra Urban 78.4, Combined 65.7.
Looking at those figures I'm not if all the figures are correctly quoted. They all show the same figures for 3 door, 5 door and Wagon and clearly the weight differentials would make a slight difference.
The figure you mention is for the original pre-updated Focus II 1.6 TDCi DPF (& non-DPF) 109 ps which had a combined figure of 58.9 mpg.
Agree with you about the burn cycle, it is undectable.
Does anyone know the cost of the 75,000 mile (6 year) service on a focus with DPF. According to the service schedule the Eloys fluid is refilled, or the DPF replaced depending on model. (Ford Etis website) Is a dealer ECU reset required?
They say the Diesel particulate filter needs renewing and the Diesel particulate filter additive "Refill with EOLYS176 and reset according to TIS service instructions - 1.6/2.0 Duratorq-TDCi with EURO IV Emission and DPF, if applicable (LTS 23 563 4)".
Best to ask them exactly what work that actually translates into and what the TIS service instructions detail. Then ask for a quotation for the 75,000 miles service, and then phone/contact a couple more Ford servicing outlets for quotes and see how they compare.
the DPF on my Zafira failed to REGEN correctly and eventually failed completely resulting in the car having to be returned to the Vauxhall dealer on the back of a transporter.
It took VX 3.5 weeks to source a replacement and although I never paid (under warranty), the bill for the part for £1100. Since then I've suffered with a number of DPF Sensor problems resulting in the Engine Management Light comming on and reduced power being available - this has happened despite the car NOT being used as an around town/school run vehicle.
After previously replacing the DPF sensor, the latest failure shows this to be at fault again and will now be opened as a case with VX Head Office (so I'm told).
So it looks like DPF (across manufacturers) is here to stay.... Perhaps I might look at petrol cars again....
and the knowledge that when I drive I'm not contributing to someone elses health problems especially those with existing breathing and lung problem.
Very noble of you, 90ish percent reduction of soot or not - you're still emitting far more harmful soot into the air than a petrol model would. Whoopee you've saved the emission of some harmless plant food in the form of CO2...
I've suffered 3 years of DPF problems, Ford Customer Service has been completely ineffective.
I'll never buy a Ford car again because of the lack of Customer Service.
But I do think the Focus is a great car, so if you must buy one, absolutely make sure it doen't have a DPF. If you buy one and get problems, you won't get any assistance from the dealer, the Customer Relationship Centre, or from Head Office.
If anyone is interested, I'm happy to provide further details of the specifc problems I've experienced, just post a request for further info.
I'd be interested in comparing Ford DPF problems to Mazda DPF problems. But we would need to have it in a DPF thread in technical.
I would say for those reading this (it was an older thread) don't go down the DPF route if you can. But with Euro V regulations I would say all diesels will use DPF. My previous car, a Mondeo TDCi was EuroIV compliant without a DPF.
I'm now at 9500 miles in my Mondeo IV 2.0 with DPF and no problems to report.
As posted elsewhere, I had an "oil service" light come on at 3500 miles, and the dealer (on instructions from Ford) changed oil & filter and reset a sensor's parameters in the ECU. The service manager explained they'd had a number of these cases and it was due to an oversensitive oil quality sensor. Not seen the light since.
The Mondeo DPF set-up seems different to Mazda's or VAG's, in that there is no DPF warning light sequence. You don't get an indicator to say the DPF needs a "regeneration run". Also there's nothing in the manual about oil levels rising, nor is there any special level marking on the dipstick.
My own observations indicate that, as well as ordinary regeneration in the right running conditions, the ECU forces a regeneration about every 500 miles, whether it's actually needed or not ... perhaps as a failsafe against DPF blocking.
I think this because a couple of times now, I've done long m/way runs where I'm at constant 2,500rpm for over an hour at a time -- which should leave the DPF as clean as a whistle.
Yet a day later, a renegeration will start on my 4-mile commute home -- and this seems to happen when the odo reads X,000 or X,500. These regens only take a couple of minutes, but have the sure signs of a) cooling fan being on and b) an exhaust tailpipe that is way too hot to touch.
I've not seen any specific DPF-related problems on the Mondeo forums as yet. But it is still fairly early days.
"As posted elsewhere, I had an "oil service" light come on at 3500 miles"
My Mazda6 is about 3500 miles after it's first service which was at 12,000 miles. Oil level is about 1 inch above the full mark. The fact yours needed an oil change/service suggests to me it might be similar to the Mazda system.
You have to admit 3500 miles is quite soon to need an oil and filter change. Mine is getting changed next week as a precaution. The X mark on the dipstick is still a fair way above the oil level but I didn't want to take a risk. And when I explained to the lease company they suddenly agreed.
But I know mine is down to lots of local trips... first 12,000 miles were fine.
Possibly, however during the first 5K miles I was fastidious about checking oil levels, so I could "index" the car's oil usage.
The oil level hadn't increased, it was more or less exactly where it always was.
A number of other Mondeo IV owners -- both 1.8 (non DPF) and 2.0 TDCI had early "oil service" lights, in some of these cases the owners reported that dealers just reset the light and did NOT do an oil change. Some owners reset it themselves using a little trick.
Oddly, on the S-Max forums there has been a couple of reports of failure of the VNT mechanisms on both 1.8 and 2.0 TDCIs, but I've not seen reports of DPF failures. Yet :)
This is talking about DPF filters and not the FAP filters used by PSA which need the eolys fluid. DPF regenerate using a catalyst in the DPF itself - it's how they are made. Do not confuse a FAP filter and a DPF.
DPF cars only acquire problems if they are driven short distances or town miles; becoming overwhelmed by the accumulation of soot.
This also occurs when regular diesel drivers treat like non-DPF, SDI, or even pre VNT diesel engines. By lugging them in low rev's which wouldn't harm an old diesel, you would just see plumes of black smoke exit the exhaust when the driver puts their foot down, usually hard.
Now EU emissions regulations states that particle emissions and Nox gases are to be below a certain level by something like 2010/12. I forget which.
So as of next year, all new diesels will have DPF which means a change of typical diesel driving style to ensure DPF do not become overwhelmed. Along with new common rail fuel injection and DNPR systems to rid that awful diesel NOX gas smell you won't be able to drive new diesels on extremely low revs without problems with carbon build up causing injector problems, fuel pump problems, spray pattern problems and even turbo problems.
Unless people adapt their typically diesel driving style to start cruising on the start of the max torque band, they also need to use 60% + throttle openings and go over 3.5k RPM more often, if not, they will have problems at between 40k and 60k miles.
Obviously m-way driving is excluded as at 70mph your on max torque so cylinder pressure is at its highest, along with air / fuel mix so the exhaust gas is hot enough to burn off all the crud.
2nd hand diesels beware, especially if its a low mileage, come 2014.
What i do worry about is a lot of the common manufacturers are only just introducing common rail, DPF engined cars. I don't know any with DNPR apart from Toyota and maybe Honda. There has been little real world testing of these new technologies that are to become requirements. Toyota have had their DPR/DNPR common rail diesel engine in the market for 5 years now. It did have problems but it has been constantly refined and is now running very nicely.
Goodness knows how the other manufacturers / reliability ratings will get on when these all go mass market.
The combination of a Silicium Carbide particulate filter with a duel function catalyst containing platinum and base metal. The catalyst lowers the soot combustion temperature, allowing the filter to self-regenerate during periods of high exhaust gas temperature.
Reduction of particulate matter (PM) and soluble organic fraction up to 98% .
Reduction of CO, HC and NO2 up to 90% .
Regenerates at normal diesel operating temperatures.
Does not require ultra low sulfur diesel or any additive.
In general the passive CDPF operating conditions requires an engine exhaust temperature above 250˚C for at least 30% of the operation.
In general the passive CDPF operating conditions requires an engine exhaust temperature
above 250 o C for at least 30% of the operation.
And if it doesn't do this before it is nearly full (i.e. temperature not reached) it will try an active regeneration by injecting diesel into the exhaust to burn and increase temperature. Some of this on some cars can end up in the sump.
If active regeneration does not happen then the car goes into limp mode and the car can only be regenerated at the dealers. And if left without doing this will eventually need a new DPF.
Hi would like to hear some more info on this as am having a nightmare with a DPF myself..
I've had a Ford Focus 1.6 tcdi 06 plate for just over a year. I bought the car from a well know national car supermarket. In January the engine management light came on and it turned out that the DPF needed repenishing. As this was not covered in the entended warrenty I paid for, I had to bring it down to Ford and paid £100 for it.
Now the light has come back on and having taken it back to Ford they have said the DPF needs relacing completely and have quoted £850!!!! They have advised me to take it back to where I bought it because they believe that X did not replenish the DPF at the 3 year service as recommended by Ford (the company did the 3 years service just before I bought it). I have taken it down to them and put it across as strongly as possible. I am just note sure what I stand legally, is this just a recommendation by Ford??
I do not have a great deal of help to offer. I had the engine warning light come on so took my 1.6 Focus TDCI in. Additives were refreshed (seems a common occurence after 75,000) Since we have had it back the electrics have gone crazy.
The car keeps cutting out and there is no obvious trigger. In a brief and free discussion with a Ford dealer he thought the garage had done something wrong as a faulty EDF will cut engine. However the issue seems to be related to the immobiliser? The issue is intermittent and I have taken it back to the garge twice and they cannot find anyhting and have told me to take it to a Ford dealers - this will cost £100 just for a diagnosis!
Flushing ECU now - but that is just in the hope of the car getting to the Ford garage as it has started cutting out a great deal. After a cut out the engine will start but will not rev not matter how much pumping you do - it will jsut idle. The engine light is now back on.
I will take it to the ford garage but have been told that the it is down to the original garage to prove that they did not introduce the issue. Which is a little bit my word against theirs. But that is where I have been told I stand.
Alright DPF Hell, I posted message below on another site, but no luck with replies.
Does the story sound familiar and can you add anything from your experiences.
My position at the mo, is I have taken car back from ford garage to get a second opinion as i don't believe a word they are telling me. What they have said is that, yes car is drivable but engine malfunction light will come on again when we next fill tank with diesal.
Hi, Can anyone tell me if this senario has some substance. I have a 2008 focus 1.6tdi with the dpf for low emmissions. Back in March this year I took it for 37500 major service ( actual miles was around 36500 ) to local garage who are in Ford Blue Oval Club and always use Genuine Ford parts - No problems with these guys, been sound for a number of years. They advised that car need the fuel addittive topping up, price quoted seemed expensive and they did say that we would get cheaper from a main dealer as third partys had to buy the full kit which was more than was required. Based on that we got a price over phone from nearest Ford dealer at £125.00, so we eventually booked it in about 3 weeks later. Sods law on the weekend before we took it in for this work done the Engine malfunction light came on, so when we took it in to dealer on the Monday we had to pay for a Diagnotics as well which pushed the cost upto £185.00 + vat. The mileage when the addittive was put in was 39600. Job was done, malfunction light gone out. Just this week, and 2000 miles later the Engine Malfunction Light has appeared again. Took it into same dealer and after 2 days and apparently 5 fault codes they have said it's 50/50 one of two things. 1. Needs a new fuel addittive tank + addittive at cost of £500 + vat, or 2. New Module, lot more expensive. They have said we are almost sure it's the New Addittive tank option. They have said that the reason would be that because we did'nt have the top up done at the major service the addittive tank had run so low that it has got clogged up. They have also said that as of now there is fluid in there and the motor is spinning but there is no fluid being injected out. If both those are correct, I cannot see why the car has been running fine for the past two months (2000 miles), surely they would have checked if it was working correct after they topped it up at 39600, but another question is if it was not checked at that time, how long would the car run afterwards before the engine malfunction light came on again.
Hope someone can help with this so I can take it forward.
This is an old thread but still a topical issue which comes up regularly. A few points seem to emerge fairly consistently, from which one can suggest:
- If buying a car over 3 years old, get one without a DPF or get a petrol-engined model.
- It seems that this was an initial lack of product testing, and newer cars with DPFs (e.g. the VAG common-rail diesels) may have fewer problems - but I emphasise 'may'. They seem better at self-regenerating.
- If your driving is mainly in town, don't get a diesel at all (not only will the DPF have to keep regenerating, but your mileage will be too low to make the extra initial cost of the diesel model worth while).
- There is a new wave of efficient petrol 1.2 and 1.4 engines which will do the job better for low-mileage drivers, and almost as economically.
- That said, for high-mileage drivers and those who mainly drive on motorways or away from towns, the torque and the long range between fill-ups are still big advantages for diesels.