Mum & Dad have a Pug 406 1.8 manual with about 50k miles on. It has had no issues whatsoever apart from the odd parking dent, and it's coming up to a timing belt change which is a few hundred quid. The Pug dealer has helpfully suggested that this might be a good time to replace the car and my folks are now considering what to do. It is a 2001 model. The question is, while all cars are different and there are no guarantees, what is the reasonable longevity of these cars - it has mainly been driven round town so I'm thinking clutch wear for starts. They do not drive with any vigour whatsoever so it has had a gentle life. their average miles are about 8000 a year so no diesels
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The other part of the question is, for around the £14k-£17k mark, what can they get that is:
* New
* Reliable
* Has fully adjustable & heated seats
* Focus-size or similar (not an exec)
* Petrol & economical
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If they've had no problems why change? It'll not be worth a great deal so keep the money in an account with decent interest, get the cambelt done by an independant rather than a main dealer and probably enjoy another 50k miles for little money. £17k buys an awful lot of repairs!
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Keep it and bank the money - they know the car and its relaible I can't see any reason for them to change - cambelt change is only a couple of hundred quid so its not going to break the bank!
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If they sell it now, someone else will be getting a very good car for not much money. Far better to keep it maintained and run it for as long as it will go. A car as carefully driven and presumably well maintained as this has many years or miles of service left in it. Some call it the washing machine principle. In other words don't buy a new one unless the old one has become unreliable or has broken beyond economic repair.
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In full agreement with the above.
Also the 406 as your parents know is a very comfortable car and a pleasant drive.
I'd have a side bet that whoever suggested to them to upgrade has got their car earmarked for themselves or a close relation.
Find a good pug indy to do the cambelt, and keep an eye on the clutch.
Also why not give the motor a birthday, and get the gearbox oil and brake fluid changed, new fanbelt etc.
Probably not halfway through its life yet.
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Im no fan of french cars but if they have had 50k trouble free miles from a Peugeot, id say keep it and wait until it has an expensive non-service item crop up, if indeed any does.
Its not worth much anyway.
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Like the others say, if it's doing the job why change?.
A good independant will do the belt cheaper than the fd and probably has more experinience of the job as well. If it's an Hdi diesel get the drive pulley looked at as well, they can give trouble later. {edit} clear from op that it's a 1.8 petrol - don't know if they have the same rubber bonded pulley.
Edited by Bromptonaut on 22/06/2008 at 20:46
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Glasses guide on the Vauxhall website gives a trade-in value of around £1,500, though you may get more if buying a new car for £15k. If they are happy with the car I would keep it. It's not like it will soon be VED of £400 like some cars (£270 max for a 2001 1.8 406, I think).
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Another way to look at it would be to consider its `worth` in terms of the capital + interest it can `produce` in the bank by staying in place for another 6 years or so.
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"£14k-£17k"
So they are contemplating spending that much to replace a car which suits them in order to save £200 for a cambelt change and the possibility of a clutch change for (say) £300.
Sounds daft doesn't it!! No offence, but the depreciation on a new car would cost ten times as much in one year. On the other hand - if they fancy a new car, the cambelt and clutch doesn't enter the equation - buy a nice new car!.
By the way, our old BXs which probably have a similar clutch did 170k and 140k without needing a new one and we towed a caravan with ours.
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It is not worth a lot and reliable so they should spend the £200 and do the cambelt. Also in this time of rapidly changing car tax and petrol prices it is worth waitng to see how things pan out. A £17,000 car could lose half its value in a year but with the 406 there is nothing much to lose.
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Perleman, do your parents want a new car? They might well, after 7 years, and if they can afford it, then they should go for it. Finance, although of course an essential consideration, isn't the only one, and a lot of people on this forum only think in this one dimension.
If they are fond of the 406, and it's just a matter of the dealer trying to sell them a new car (which is his job), then the advice above is good - maybe a full check and some replacement parts to buy them peace of mind. Even then, urban driving takes its toll and the 406 may be generally rather tired despite the low mileage.
But if they want, and will be happier with, a new car one size down from the 406, they should go for some test drives. I'd suggest:
- Peugeot 308 (if they like Peugeots, and they should get a good deal)
- Skoda Fabia (almost everyone who has one loves it)
- VW Golf (a feeling of quality which may appeal, and most are reliable despite what the VW-bashers on this forum say)
- Ford Focus (you have to go for the higher-priced versions to get a decent level of equipment, and they don't hold their value, but on the other hand they are good to drive and you get a big discount up front)
- Kia Ceed or Hyundai i30 (similar cars and good value)
- Vauxhall Astra (neither good nor bad in most areas but they might get a good deal on one)
- Toyota Auris (OK to drive, very good reputation for reliability). Or they might get a Prius discounted to less than £17k - ideal for their 'petrol and economical' criterion if their dreiving is mainly round town.
You'd have to check whether you can get heated seats on all of these - maybe as an option.
Edited by Avant on 23/06/2008 at 00:05
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If it only needs a bit of work (cost hundreds) vs thousands for something depreciating... keep it. It sounds reliable.
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The phrasing of the OP's posting suggested that his/her parents were a little concerned about the costs the pug might incur in the near future and the salesman picked up on this. If that is the case, spending £15k to save a few hundred seems a bit odd. If on the other hand, the posting had said 'my parents fancy a new car, what should they get?' then that's something different and would receive different advice.
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I'd suggest that if they are worried about the repair costs, they should start putting the £350 (or more?) a month that an equivalent new car would cost into a bank account. That way, if something does go wrong, they would either have plenty in the bank to fix it, or a deposit on something new.
Either way, it should concentrate the mind on how much a new car would cost - a belt change is only about 3 weeks of finance payments.
Edited by Gordon M on 23/06/2008 at 10:24
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Keeping it for the next three years will give them a lot more value from their original expenditure for the cost of one cambelt and three annual services, perhaps £700 all in. At the end of that time it will be worth around £750 with a long MoT, total cost from here therefore of about £1,500.
People like your parents are a second-hand car-buyer's dream - changing a car that's got loads of life left, but relatively little value.
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"Finance, although of course an essential consideration, isn't the only one, and a lot of people on this forum only think in this one dimension."
That`s me exactly Avant, ;)
I found it relatively easy to keep getting new cars on LA car loans years ago, constant payments became normal. But when I now can buy anything I want cash, I just can`t do it.
Its actually a problem as I would like a new Motorhome, but no way can I even think of it.
To the OP, depend on your parents view on life satisfaction, assuming the capital is in the bank?
Good luck with their decision anyway ;)
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I agree fully with the 'keep it' sentiments. Apart from the very valid comments on the cost effectiveness of changing it, they'll also have to go some to find a car as comfy as the 406 from any range in production now.
My old company 406 HDi was unfortunately terminally unreliable, but none of the much newer and theoretically 'better' cars I've driven since could match its supreme comfort, low noise levels, and utterly brilliant ride quality. My current Volvo S60 is close, but the ride isn't a patch on the Pug's, and there's a lot more road noise.
Just a shame my 406 had a new fault almost every week (and the dealer was useless!)
Cheers
DP
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In answer to OP's question, it makes no sense whatsoever to pay out 14-17k to save a £2-300 bill on a £1500 car. Salesmen are in the habit of scaring customers into buying something new and shiny that will offer no more reliability than the car they already have.
On the other hand, it looks to me like an excuse for changing the motor - in which case OP should ask the question differently!
And the other approach, provided they have AA cover, is to ignore the belt change, and run it for a further 7 years - or until something major goes wrong.
I'm almost tempted to offer to buy the car off OP.
Ah, and the other thing is, I bet it's a main dealer who is quoting thousands to change the belt. Bin him and go to a good (how easy is it to write that???) garage instead.
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The OPs parents could approach this another way, as I did when killing time on Saturday.
Take a trip to the garage of your choice with a budget of £15,000 (which already looks bigger than 15K when I see it written down!) in mind. Wander around the cars on show and ask yourself does any of them do anything your current 406 doesn't?
Chances are the answer is no. Is a new/nearly new 407 more spacious? No. Does it need to be more spacious with two passengers aboard? No. Is it more comfortable? Probably not. Will a new car with the risk of new car teething troubles keep you out of the service bay more than the risk of an unexpected breakdown on a well-kept older car? Probably not.
The new might have a few extra electric do-dads and be a bit more wedge-shaped. Is that worth the £13,500 it'll cost to change? Probably not.
I made the same comparison between my 89,000 mile, 7-year-old, Scenic and a new C-Max. Honestly, the C-Max does nothing that made me think I'd want one (or a new Scenic, for that matter) instead of the Renault for hauling family, dogs and boat bits. Especially when I'd be ?17,000 out of pocket. The local motor factor did make ?30 out of me for car polish and interior cleaner to shine up the old car after its service, though :-)
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Keep it.
It's worth peanuts, so they might as well hold on to it until it becomes uneconomic to keep on the road. £200 for a cambelt is nothing compared to the cost of a new car. Don't want them spending you inheritance now, do you!? ;-)
Unless of course they want a change for changes sake, which brings different factors into the equation.
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Keep the car, get the cam belt/service done followed up by a full valet - it will feel and smell like a new car, all for £13,000 odd less :)
MVP
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The consensus, with which I concur, is that there is no good practical reason for yr parents to change their car, unless they have become bored with their present one and fancy a change, which they feel they can well afford. In that case they should certainly switch to anything they fancy.
Is it not likely that people sometimes dream up practical sounding reasons for changing a car (fear of upcoming replacements, probable future unreliability, etc.) because they think it would sound frivolous to admit they just fancy a change?
Perhaps they really want a heavily customised Focus ST in banana yellow with a red drainpipe exhaust.
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If it ain't broke,don't fix it. (Or in this case,replace it.)
Tell them to run it into the ground.
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Is it not likely that people sometimes dream up practical sounding reasons for changing a car (fear of upcoming replacements probable future unreliability etc.) because they think it would sound frivolous to admit they just fancy a change?
Guilty as charged m'Lud!
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Wow, 25 replies all saying the same thing, a BR first! I will show my folks this page to try and put their fears to rest - many thanks
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Make that 26-keep it unless they really fancy a change to something completly different(mazda mx5?).
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On another thread perleman said: >> I'm monitoring Boxster prices with morbid trepedation and they are in freefall. My 1998 model bought last year for 12.5k is now worth no more than 9k, >>
So here's my solution. Sell your mum and dad your boxster for £12.5k. They get a fun car and save at least £3 or £4k. OK. Take their pug in p/ex and £12 k cash. They still save. You get a car for £500 or lose that on the boxster, whichever way you choose to look at it. Do the little bit of work on the pug and have it as a runaround. Ask mum if you can borrow the boxster from time to time. Put the £12k in the bank until the market in boxsters stabilises.
HTH.
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27 and counting.........
The OP reads "The Pug dealer has helpfully suggested that this might be a good time to replace the car". For "helpfully" substitute "hopefully".
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If it turns out they do 'just fancy a change', is there any need to spend £17k? There must be loads of reliable used cars in the £7k plus range which would meet their requirements. If they are the kind of folks who like to buy new because of the warranty, they could buy a one/two year-old car from a main dealer and extend the warranty for a few hundred quid, but saving on the heaviest depeciation.
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I think they should buy a new Proton Impian.... no er wait, they should keep the Pug.
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