I've too have one of each - I prefer the stick, but wife has arthritis so likes the auto. Must admit that an auto is better in town, but living near Edinburgh, there's not much reason to go into town since the shops are so bad.
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One of each here also. I much prefer the automatic. In traffic it's a breeze. You can hill start without the hand-brake. With gear boxes going up from 5 to 6 speeds there's even more faffing about with the stick to do than before. If manufacturers would reduce the premium they charge for automatics I doubt many people would go for manuals.
And aren't F1 cars semi-automatic at least? If it's good enough for Lewis.........
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One of each in our house too. I don't mind which one I drive, the Audi DSG is well suited to the diesel engine and the Aygo manual has a very light clutch and very slick gearbox.
I wouldn't want the Audi with a manual box though, very heavy clutch and very notchy gearbox.
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This is just my perception, based on my limited observations of just two makes/models of cars.
Mercedes E class: always had a preponderance of auto boxes, and I think they have usually been standard fit with a no-cost option to "downgrade to manual. Now with 6 (and 7) speed autos, makes the choice of manual even less attractive.
BMW 3 and 5 series: used to have preponderance of manual boxes. Now going the Merc way, with it getting harder and harder to find 2nd hand examples with manual boxes.
I think the drift to autos is explained by two changes. 1) increasing congestion making it a chore to drive a manual (in the South East, using a heavy clutch in the crawling traffic some times causes my left foot to develop cramp, and I have occasionally had to pull over to a side road to rest). 2)improvements in auto-boxes - eg, 6 or 7 speeds, smg, dsg, etc. all make the auto a good choice.
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My two pence.
Recently drove a new Merc C class auto - it was dire.
Vectra auto 2.2 petrol was acceptable but thirsty
Audi 3.2 DSG (my car) - supurb, changed gears better than I can and more economical as well!
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Mercedes E class: always had a preponderance of auto boxes, and I think they have usually been standard fit with a no-cost option to "downgrade to manual.
Not surprising though - the foot-operated parking brake makes anything other than an auto box nearly impossible to drive on anything but flat road. My neighbour has recently acquired his son's old (W124) E320 with a manual box - he's having great difficulty in growing the extra arm & leg required for smooth hill starts.
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IIRC it was reported last year that the market for autos in various forms was more than 50% in UK. Can't find the actual quote in Autocar.
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Not surprising though - the foot-operated parking brake makes anything other than an auto box nearly impossible to drive on anything but flat road. My neighbour has recently acquired his son's old (W124) E320 with a manual box - he's having great difficulty in growing the extra arm & leg required for smooth hill starts.
Had the same problem with a C Class - I found it OK as "I got used to it" but getting caught on Montrose Stereet Glasgow (makes Ben Nevis look easy) it was a nearly a "brown moment" when the car in front moved, I followed and it stopped after 2/3 yards.......!!
My wife drove the car once - 3 miles and met a small hill..........never drove the car again.
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Unless we get the actual numbers of automatics sold over the years, it is quite difficult to predict whether they are becoming popular or not.
Most luxury cars are auto anyway and auto won't go well with smaller cars.
For majority of drivers, driving is a necessary evil rather than a pleasure. So, theoretically automatics should be more popular (like in USA)
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the last 3 cars i've had have been auto's and i wouldn't go back to manuals, they're not the most economical cars to own but i thinnk theyre lots nicer to drive. they say the Yaris auto (belt) is more economical than the manual.
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Somebody decided to change our Volvo Traffic cars from manual to auto. Horrid things with an awful tiptronic function. How can you be in proper control of a car without a gear stick.
Guess I'm just old fashioned.
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"How can you be in proper control of a car without a gear stick."
You learn how to drive it properly - which I hope your traffic cops have done. I haven't crashed any auto car I've ever had so I must be in control.
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Surely they must be more popular, with the variety of alternatives to the traditional torque converter auto, and CVTs available in small cars?
I wonder if you could email SMMT and get the answer (without having to pay for it)? Their website has some free downloads, I looked at "Motor Industry Facts 2007" (quite good, lots of useless but interesting facts!), but didnt see figures for sales by gearbox type. snipurl.com/23san [www_smmt_co_uk]
Found this article, I've not looked at it, you need to register to be able to read it:
"UK: Automatic gearbox demand increasing, particularly for diesels" (dated Aug. 2003)
www.just-auto.com/article.aspx?ID=70763
If this forum was representative of the UK as a whole, it seems demand for autos is increasing. It used to surprise me how many posters come on here asking for new car advice, saying they would prefer an automatic.
Edited by Rich 9-3 on 08/04/2008 at 13:51
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"You learn how to drive it properly - which I hope your traffic cops have done. I haven't crashed any auto car I've ever had so I must be in control."
I haven't crashed one either....but then I don't suppose you regularly drive yours at 130mph. There's a big difference in driving from A to B and using the car in the role I do. As an advanced driver, I like to choose what gear I'm in. The tiptronic (or geartronic) function just doesn't cut it.
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As an advanced driver, I like to choose what gear I'm in. The tiptronic (or geartronic) function just doesn't cut it...
Well as an average driver, I think (some) tiptronic-type boxes give excellent contorl over gear selection. Try changing to a lower gear from high-ish speed - my tiptronic makes a smooth transition to the lower gear - and when you do change lower it stays there until you flick the 'tip' function again - up or down.
Could you outline a situation where stick-waggling & clutch operation work better? I've driven most types of auto boxes (slush-box, cvt, tiptronic etc.) over the years & found technique counts & can be developed. With practice, you can replicate (if you want to!) most - if not all- of what a manual box does. About the only thing most autos don't 'allow' is engine labouring - although I don't see much advantage in that, except for tentative icy road driving.
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Why all this "driving" automatics?
Its just go and stop and steer isnt it? If you want the car to change gear for you, havent you then given up on the driving and just want to point the thing and tell it well to speed up and slow down?
Well, gears and cogs and clutches - thats a different matter - with a manual gearbox you are making it happen - i.e overcoming petrol/diesel engine short comings, matching engine to road etc etc.
Granted, most people arent bothered about what makes their car go and just want to get from a-b well, in that case, an automatic is ideal. We are in 2008 why bother with gears when the car can do it for you?
Depends wether you want to "drive" then doesnt it :-)))
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Midlife crisis regularly drives "at 130mph".
At that speed I'd have thought what gear you're in becomes a comic irrelevance: you're not really going to change, are you? Won't you probably be on a dead straight (hopefully empty) road?
And I'm not convinced by davidh who thinks you can overcome engine short comings by changing gear. You might be able to make best use of engine characteristics, I suppose.
Many people have no sympathy whatsoever with what the engine of their car is up to and seem to select a gear pretty well at random. Driving is steering, go and stop essentially. Why not go back to the days when you could adjust the timing from inside the car?
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Good grief !!!!!!!! I knew this was going to get difficult.
Yes, I'm a motorway traffic officer. Yes I regularly drive at well over 100mph. I don't deliver milk for a living.
I don't like automatics. I don't change gear at 130mph. Manuals give you a darn sight more control of your vehicle. I like Chinese special curry (17a on the menu), I'm listening to INXS on my car CD.
(I thought I may as well go off topic before it turns into a 'naughty Policeman drives too fast thread :) )
Edited by Webmaster on 08/04/2008 at 14:46
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I don't like automatics.
I'd go rather further than that!
I don't change gear at 130mph. Manuals give you a darn sight more control of your vehicle.
And that. Conditions various, and I can't think of one that I'd rather drive an auto. in.
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Many people have no sympathy whatsoever with what the engine of their car is up to and seem to select a gear pretty well at random.
Goodness! , do they really! Perhaps they don't realise that you need to re-take your driving test if you take it in an automatic, and then want to drive a car with manual gears!
Driving is steering go and stop essentially.
I can't agree with that.
Edited by Webmaster on 08/04/2008 at 14:47
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mlc - I've also done advanced driving, in both manual and auto so I know that leaving an auto in D is not the way to do it - a fact I suspect many of those who jump in an auto are not aware of.
I've been in an auto with someone who left it in D and on some sections of road it was very apparent the driver was merely a passenger who happened to be holding a steering wheel - the car was driving him.
In contrast I was once a passenger with a serving traffic cop on a demo run to show how to drive an auto. He moved the gear lever nearly as much as you would when driving a manual.
As a serving officer if the car you drive is changed from a manual to an auto do you go on a conversion course, or do you learn advanced on both types from day one so you can chop and change vehcile types? What if they decided to replace Volvos for DSG equipped cars (or they buy the new Volvos which will have the new Volvo DSG equivalent) would you receive training on that type of gearbox?
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In contrast I was once a passenger with a serving traffic cop on a demo run to show how to drive an auto. He moved the gear lever nearly as much as you would when driving a manual.
I've done the advanced driving test (in a manual car) and I find that idea above silly.
I mean, if you wanted a manual, you'd have one, right? Surely the idea of an auto is to *not* change gears all the time! :)
I also think the method is flawed because it's pointless. I have an auto now, and I feel there is no point pre-selecting 3rd or 2nd say as I approach an island. If I just cruise to towards the island and use kickdown the car responds no slower than if I had manually selected the gear. I admit, I've got quite a powerful car which may help.
The only time I have found it useful to have the hold positions is when going downhill where lower gears help with keeping the speed down without cooking the brakes and annoying following drivers with constant brake lights. Other than that, you can't really go wrong with just leaving it in drive. The clever software on moden cars ensures that the car has nearly always got the right gear for you and changes very quickly too.
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Let's bring up the old red herring - if all current cars were automatics, and somebody invented the "manual" would it be allowed on safety grounds, in that you wouldn't be able to keep two hands on the wheel (note - auto-dim mirrors, -lights, -wipers, anti-eating/drinking - smoking next(?) - are lessening need for hands to leave wheel)
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I cannot speak for traffic officers but if small automatics were are fuel efficient as manuals I would never drive a manual car again.
Slow moving stop start traffic is a real PAIN in a manual car. In an auto it's painless.
If you are tired an auto is infinitely better.
As for driving in D, what other way is there to drive an automatic? :-)
For normal humans the chance to use all engine power at 6,000rpm on UK roads mounts to 0.1% of the time driving. in rush hours it is zero.
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"I don't like automatics. I don't change gear at 130mph. Manuals give you a darn sight more control of your vehicle. I like Chinese special curry (17a on the menu), I'm listening to INXS on my car CD." (Midlifecrisis)
That's what I like to hear, Officer: reasoned argument, logically presented.
Driving is actually an incredibly simple skill to master. If it weren't there wouldn't be so many people with driving licences. Some people drive much better than others. OK. Some people are good at DIY. Some people are driving snobs who think they somehow master the car and that an auto means you can't do that. Blimey!
As the man said a few posts back, with a decent kick-down and a steering wheel select, an automatic is very responsive. After that, I guess it's different strokes for different folks.
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Driving is actually an incredibly simple skill to master.
Oh, really.
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I bow to those of much greater experience than my ten years as a traffic officer (especially those that have read an IAM leaflet ;) )
I will repeat:- I (as in me) do not like autos, whether in a personal or professional life. I do not like tiptronic.geartronic/Gin and Tonic (hang on..I like those). They do not give the same control as a manual gearbox and unless the change down is matched to the correct conditions, you do not get a seamless change. If done correctly, you can get a seamless change on a manual box in the same conditions.
I will repeat, I am not talking about a trip to Tesco's, where I'm sure an auto box may be marvelous for those inclined that way. If you want one, then all power to your elbow. I don't.
(And I'm a bit baffled why a perfectly innocent, non-offensive word in my original post was edited by 'webmaster' and replaced with 'Good Grief'. It makes me sound like Victor Meldrew.)
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"Some people are driving snobs who think they somehow master the car and that an auto means you can't do that. Blimey!"
I give up!!! (And watch out..if you keep using 'Blimey' then you might get a visit from the 'webmaster')
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(And I'm a bit baffled why a perfectly innocent non-offensive word in my original post was edited by 'webmaster' and replaced with 'Good Grief'. It makes me sound like Victor Meldrew.)
It was a blasphemous word, so was replaced. Please see the sticky "Welcome to The Backroom. Please Read." thread at the top of the page for further clarification (mentioned approx half way down the post).
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Oh my!! I think you'd better pass that on to 99.99% of the population who use it in everyday life. I think that's taking things to the VERY extreme.
you have email
Edited by Webmaster on 08/04/2008 at 23:59
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"I've been in an auto with someone who left it in D and on some sections of road it was very apparent the driver was merely a passenger who happened to be holding a steering wheel - the car was driving him."
Never been in a situation in 20 years of driving autos all over Europe and America when I've needed to hold a gear for any reason and yet have never experienced this "passenger holding a steering wheel" malarky
"In contrast I was once a passenger with a serving traffic cop on a demo run to show how to drive an auto. He moved the gear lever nearly as much as you would when driving a manual."
Clearly an idiot, but every profession has them. The way to drive an auto is leave it in D. From driveway to office, D, D, D. The very big clue is in the name "Auto". It's an abbreviation of automatic, meaning it does it itself.
There's a lot of nonsense being spouted here. Just waiting for the "manuals are more exciting" comments to start cropping up.
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There's a lot of nonsense being spouted here
Calm down dears, it is only a gearbox !
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"Calm down dears, it is only a gearbox !"
There hasn't been a good scrap on here since before Christmas and manual/auto always gets everyone riled. Great threads, always lots of fun. Like driving an auto.
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Autos are much quicker down a drag strip or from the traffic lights
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"Autos are much quicker down a drag strip or from the traffic lights"
You're at the next set of lights before Manual Man has woken up, wiped the drool off his mouth and put his contraption into gear.
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Fotherington Thomas, a few posts back, doesn't seem to agree that driving is an easy skill to master. Course it's easy. What's so difficult about it? Anybody who can see and hear ok and who has enough intelligence to interpret the road signs and understand what pedal does what and what the steering wheel is for, can do it.
I agree with the post a few back. This is shaping up for a decent scrap.
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There hasn't been a good scrap on here since before Christmas
Good Grief!!!! LOL ROTFL
Do tell which one. ;-)
A scrap always liven things up. Hooligans.
Edited by jbif on 08/04/2008 at 16:28
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I've thrown in the towel all ready. :) I've just finished nights and I'm a mite tired.
Now I'm under orders to have the curry made before 'er indoors gets in......
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I'm a bit new to this forum lark and don't understand all the banter.
What are LOL and ROTF (was it?) please
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-"The very big clue is in the name 'Auto'. It's an abbreviation of automatic, meaning it does it itself."
Does a conventional epicyclic/fluid-coupled box know to change down before what looks to be a tightening curve up ahead, or an impending hazard up ahead, in order to 'keep a tighter rein' on the car? I think not.
-"Some people are driving snobs who think they somehow master the car and that an auto means you can't do that"
I don't consider myself a driving snob, but an auto IS easier to drive: My two (able-bodied) OAP neighbours have both said they couldn't contemplate driving a manual. The DVLA will let you jump straight into an auto if you passed your test in a manual, but not vice-versa.
I wouldn't want to go back to trying to drive a car whilst adjusting the timing on the steering wheel or having only a hand-throttle, but although autos seem like an apparently obvious technological advance to do away with the ridiculous notion of manually-shifting between a set of fixed ratios, and have been available for donkey's years, in this country they've still not been the *choice* of the majority. I wonder why that is?
I got myself an auto in the past when I had to do a cross-city commute, and it was a boon, but the thought of buying an auto (at least, not a tiptronic or DSG) for my ONLY car somehow leaves me with a niggling feeling that it's cop-out.
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"Does a conventional epicyclic/fluid-coupled box know to change down before what looks to be a tightening curve up ahead, or an impending hazard up ahead, in order to 'keep a tighter rein' on the car? I think not."
I have brakes to do that. Unfortunately I have to press them with my foot, but as soon as they make auto-brakes I'll be buying one of those.
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Wallowing round a tightening bend in a still-almost-freewheeling auto after braking is NOT the same as slipping a manual into 3rd before you get to the bend.
And if you shift the auto from D into 2, you might as well be driving a manual anyway.
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I must be exceptional then, I've never had to do all that nonsense, my car is always in the right gear. Sounds like you need to slow down a bit and read the road better.
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ALWAYS in the right gear?
With a 'traditional' 3 speed epicyclic auto with fluid coupling, and leaving the lever in D, coming up to bend at say, ooh, 55 mph, for which you need to slow down to say 40, you would brake, but the box would not change down until the car had reached a slower speed than 40.
The car is then not necessarily in the optimal gear for this corner, and there's nothing you can do without manual intervention.
There's probably a similar case for when accelerating gently when past the apex of a curve when conditions are slippery: An auto box of the type in question may suddenly make a less-than-smooth upshift just when you DON'T want any snappy-action at the tyre-road interface.
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I hear what you're saying TC but quite honestly, the more you talk about optimal gears, upshifts and snappy action, the more I'm glad I drive an automatic. I've have never got a car out of shape on a bend yet, certainly not a FWD family saloon at 40mph.
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Thank goodness for modern tyre and suspension technology ;-))
You see - that's why 14 year old TWOCers can evade capture by the police for so long: Put 'em in an early 70's Datsun Violet (rwd), probably on cross-plies, and see how long they last then!
Which may well bring us back round to why autos are getting more popular...
(Although I might concede that the Violet's roadholding would have been dicy even with a manual box)
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ALWAYS in the right gear?
>>
The car is then not necessarily in the optimal gear for this corner and there'snothing you can do without manual intervention. .... An auto box of the type in question may suddenly make a less-than-smooth upshift just when you DON'T want any snappy-action at the tyre-road interface.
>>
The manual intervention on my 10 year old Ford 4 speed auto is very difficult:-)
I rest my hand on this convenient lever and flex just my thumb a fraction of an inch and it changes from 4th to 3rd and stays there.
Jolly useful and jolly simple.
I do sometimes waggle the big lever in extreme conditions.
What I do not have is a snow button but living on the edge of GLC I have not needed it to date.
Block changing is a challenge on Autos of all types :-)
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That may be miniscule intervention, but intervention it is, nonetheless: The box required a human to read conditions ahead and tell it what it really ought to be doing: Not automatic, then.
I'm not saying auto boxes aren't jolly useful, and you can, absolutely, simply leave them in D if you want - but they then won't be in the best gear in 100% of circumstances.
:-)
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Fotherington Thomas a few posts back doesn't seem to agree that driving is an easy skill to master. Course it's easy. What's so difficult about it?
Easy for many of us, maybe..
But there some atrocious drivers on the roads, arent there?. They seem to have little understanding of what they are doing, and poor observation and understanding of what other drivers around them are doing. How some people pass the driving test I do not know.. I see plenty of them every day. Do you never see a clueless inept driver and think the same things??
Its wound me up just thinking about it! Phew, relax, count to ten...!
My mother was a terrible driver for many years after passing her test. Now she is much better, but still - you ought to see how badly kerbed the alloys are on her Corsa. My Dad was complaining the other day, his A4 has been given another scuff on the bumper by my Mum trying to turn round in a cul-de-sac, "I thought I would miss the wall, but I scraped it".
By the way I prefer manual myself. Cant imagine ever buying an auto... ...but then I always said I'd never buy a diesel. Have driven autos and don't mind them, give it 20 years and I might entertain one, if driving is still allowed then!
;o)
Edited by Rich 9-3 on 08/04/2008 at 16:43
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I'm a bit new to this forum lark and don't understand all the banter. What are LOL ...
LMAO. Make a search engine (Google ? ) your friend.
Edited by jbif on 08/04/2008 at 16:50
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I'm a bit new to this forum lark and don't understand all the banter. What are LOL and ROTF (was it?) please
Google them and you'll find out. Or as they say, RTFM.
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last year I drove into a supermarket and a mercedes was going round and round the carpark in a circle with no one at the wheel!!!! The car eventually hit a barrier which stopped it and then I saw a rather embarrased lady running towards the car shouting for it to stop. I have never laughed so much in my life. (luckily no one was hurt)
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I've had a manual Metro drive itself across a car park without me in it, so this isn't anything to do with autos.
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Lets face it. Anyone but anyone can drive a car. After all, there are lots of 14 year olds being caught for Twoc.
So anyone who can't drive very well should get an automatic. It's one less thing for them to get wrong.
As for being in the right gear for a corner, I believe you can select gears with an automatic manually.
Any sensible driver knows that. :-)
It's just the fact that after a few years some drivers brain cells atrophy and they drive as if they were on automatic pilot:-))
For those with atrophied brain cells may I recommend a hearse. Saves your nearest and dearest money at the funeral. And it does not go too fast.
Edited by madf on 08/04/2008 at 17:25
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So anyone who can't drive very well should get an automatic. It's one less thing for them to get wrong. As for being in the right gear for a corner I believe you can select gears with an automatic manually. Any sensible driver knows that. :-)
I'm a sensible driver and my conventional torque converter auto wont allow you to select any gear at any time. The road speed for that gear has to be down within the boxes pre-set limit before the gear will "drop in" so to speak.
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a mercedes was going round and round the carpark in a circle with no one at the wheel!!!!
A couple of years ago, one night I was the last to leave our office. As I got to the office car park a woman (from another company based in the same building), collared me and said, "Can you help me, Ive got my car stuck in the car park."
I was baffled as to how she could have got stuck, but I got outside and the front of the car (an automatic Hyundai Sonata) was resting on top of a 14" high wall, with one front wheel in fresh air! I jacked the car up, luckily there were some large flat stones to hand which I put under the front wheel, and managed to drive the car back onto safe tarmac! I didnt bother asking her how she got it up there.
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Pfft. What is all this nonsense about "Manual" and "Auto" and "DSG" contraptions?
What you want is a SEQUENTIAL 'box.
Nothing like the whine of those straight cut gears to drown out the sound of Steve Wright in the afternoon :-)
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Fotherington Thomas a few posts back doesn't seem to agree that driving is an easy skill to master. Course it's easy. What's so difficult about it?
Lots and lots of people seem to find it quite difficult to master, though, don't they.
Anybody who can see and hear ok and who has enough intelligence to interpret the road signs and understand what pedal does what and what the steering wheel is for can do it.
Almost anyone can do that, yes.
I agree with the post a few back. This is shaping up for a decent scrap.
No, it isn't.
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I've now read TFM. Thanks.
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I've now read TFM.
Interesting. That reply appears as a response to my posting. Perhaps it's something to do with needing to reply to a particular post, not just the latest one.
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I don't really mind what sort of gearbox a car has. There are good and bad points about both manuals and autos. I think a major reason why autos are less often specified than might be expected is that in many cases they increase the personal tax liability for those of you fortunate enough to be issued with company cars.
and the fact that autos are a bit wussy ;-)
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"and the fact that autos are a bit wussy ;-)"
Shoespy, there is no substitute for an auto when aggressively tailgating a mimser! One foot on the brake, one one the gas, millimetre precision, certainly not for the wuss! Equally much easier for brake-testing tailgaters, ride the brake and they have no idea what you're going to do next. Brake, gas, brake, gas - there's no way a manual driver can predict and change gear and keep up.
Not that I'd ever do those things...
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aggressively tailgating a mimser!
What's a "mimser"?
One foot on the brake one one the gas (snip) Brake gas brake gas
Glad to hear you're an environmentalist, despite outward appearances....
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>>That reply appears as a response to my posting. Perhaps it's something to dowith needing to reply to a particular post not just the latest one.
I was responding to the LOL and ROTF posts earlier. Sorry to mislead you, FT.
There was a Fotherington Thomas at my school, St Biffos. But you couldn't be him because the poor lad had no sense of humour.
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My last post should have gone in here. Don't know why it didn't.
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IIRC, Lancashire traffic preferred auto gearboxes, or did when I accompanied them - for work only BTW. Their argument was that they can be relied on, in the heat of the moment, to give maximum performance. Missed gearchanges do not help a pursuit much. Especially when tired there is a chance of fouling up. Anyway, I can't see that an auto is an obstacle to driving in the correct gear for the circumstances. Simply knock the lever back into the desired ratio. In traffic, an auto is so much less bother. In fact a pal was so overworked (regular travel in the SE) that his left knee was protesting. Audi auto diesel = happy driver, in so far as you can be approaching south west London from Kent(:
Edited by nortones2 on 08/04/2008 at 18:12
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"left knee was protesting"
Exactly why me and Mrs OB have bought Autos in the last year. Both of us are feeling the effects of heavy clutches and clunky gearchanges and we're both only in our 30s...although we both drive a lot...
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Lets not forget that with a fluid drive auto you really need the more melodious sound of 5 - 6 - 8 - 12 cylinders to stop the droning of an auto from getting on your wires! I cant imagine what a racket a 4 cylinder diesel auto would make (shudders)
Its horses for courses as someone previously said - autos are great in big cars and traffic.
I personally like driving a car like I'm operating a machine. I love machines. If I could faf with the timing from inside the cabin then great! bring it on!
I will concede that in urban driving an auto might just be safer as it reduces the "average" drivers workload and he/she can be alert to other matters.
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I'd love an auto again. The only time I had one in a car long term was a nightmare though - a hand me down company car. Wait for it.... an Astra (M reg) 1.4 Auto!!!!! it drank petrol and I insisted on an increase in fuel rate and then some. You could nurse it but to get anywhere it needed to kick down.
I don't have one now or in recent years due to taxation on emissions.... Roll-on more dual-clutch type solutions which are not as fuel inefficient as torque converter - actually can be better than a manual. And if I stick with a company car the times it breaks is not my problem ;-)
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Thanks to Rich 9-3 for the links.
I found the following statement, which does not completely answer the question, but does partially answer it: "Sales of cars with automatic gearboxes are expected to grow beyond 100,000 in 2003, compared to 20,638 just five years ago. "
Total car sales in 2003 were 2,579,050 according to SMMT, which indicates that about 4% of cars sold that year were automatics, compared to somewhere around 1% in 1998.
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Your all forgetting the prime reason for a proper auto, forget those DSG ESP or whatever they're called.
A proper auto is vital for maintaining a loving relationship, and thats all i'm saying.
Proper blokes will understand.
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I can see the point in autos, and might own one some day, but I prefer manuals for the moment anyways. It's like the old petrol/diesel debate really, horses for courses.
Mind you, only auto I've driven more than a few times was a Peugeot 205 1.6 Auto, one of the last of the line - thirsty as hell and had a stubborn refusal to change up sometimes, leading to annoyingly louder engine noise than was necessary. That was the main weakness for me, you might be able to force it to change down, but getting it to change up on demand was a different story.
But I digress, what I was going to ask was why the auto/manual thing seems different in different parts of the world - America being the prime example, although a few visits to Japan appeared to show that they preferred them too.
So what other countries prefer autos over manuals, and why? Is it simply the case that we prefer manuals in Europe because fuel consumption has traditionally been more important? Do any European countries buck the trend of preferring autos?
Edited by XantKing on 08/04/2008 at 22:31
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I have driven an automatic for the last 3 years. Couldn't agree with Dave's comments more. A lot of utter garbage about not being a proper driver if one drives and auto'.
You have so much more control of the vehicle's steering as you can, if you wish, have two hands on the wheel for the majority of the time - save for hand movements to wipers or radio, for example. As for town driving, well, they're great.
It's also a nonsense that automatics are not under control on a descent. Yes, I agree that there are a few donughts who keep their foot on the brake for most of the descent, but any driver worth their salt will use appropriate manual over-ride (yes, you know what I mean).
Whatever you drive, keep it between the hedges.
AA
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My friend, if the truth be told, has mixed feelings about the DSG gearbox on his new VW 1.4TSI Jetta. He finds the gear changes very smooth but if he has to pull away from standstill rather smartly, then he experiences what he calls 'axle tramp' from the driven wheels and that very phenomenon can't be doing the suspension/driveshafts much good.
I was wondering if this was due to the electronic control system not being up to the job and especially so, since there is no torque converter to smooth things out especially if there is too much power being produced from a light, small engine (both super/turbo charged). There again it might be lack of driving finesse!
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