Where would a 2.0 D4D Toyota engine figure in this discussion?
Which one? In the Avensis, for instance, the 2.0 D4-D in the Mk II 2003-on model was a belt driven, direct injection, 114bhp engine; at the '06 facelift it was replaced with a 128bhp chain driven, common-rail engine.
The MK1 Avensis used (variations of?) the DI engine - I travelled in a 278k mile one which the cabby said had only needed a new clutch in that time, and he had another with similar miles. He swore by them.
So that very limited evidence would suggest that, reliability wise, the DI D4-Ds were good (too soon to know about the CR versions) - but that's not unusual for Toyota.
My own common rail 2.2 D4-D is up to 28k miles with no issues, but that's not really high enough mileage to judge.
|
I'm staggered that so many people are recommending the VAG diesels - especially with all the problems we continually read about on here.
They are very rough & noisy, relatively dirty in terms of up to date euro emmissions standards and I do not think they are any more durable than any other diesel.
I'm with curious and bristol and suggest a Toyota diesel (even though I think the Honda is more refined - it has had it's problems). In D-CAT form they are very clean - and once we have all jumped ship to diesels the next thing darling will use to clobber us is the euroV emmissions - The D-CAT engines are already much cleaner than most other diesels.
The other thing I never see is all the VAG taxi drivers (that can never be wrong - not so sure myself) round my part of the world - if they do not drive hackney carriages they all drive Toyotas - D4D or D-CAT.
I would say they are a pretty safe bet all round.
Also the dealers know how to look after customers as well.
|
Having said all that do not neglect to consider a BMW diesel - IMO they will probably offer the best real world mpg with the efficient dynamics package.
Also the refinement is far superior to anyone else's.
I have had the good fortune of driving my brother's 118d and a colleagues 535d recently and the engines are both way ahead of the competition in their class.
|
I'd love to be in a position to consider a BMW, but for the moment my priority is relatively cheap motoring.
At present the cars on my rung on the ladder seem to be 2-3 y.o. Avensis/Mondeo/Passat/407/Vectra.
|
|
|
|
"The other thing I never see is all the VAG taxi drivers"
Try living near me. I have numbers for 3 taxi firms on my phone. When I call 9 times out of ten I'll get an Octavia or a Superb 1.9 TDi. A neighbour's brother runs a cab - he had a Focus TDDi for years, swapped for a Mondeo TDCi which he ended up getting rid of as he couldn't make money running it due to continual problems, he now has an Octavia.
"relatively dirty in terms of up to date euro emmissions standards"
Latest 2.0TDi CR VAG engine exceeds proposed levels for Euro VI - sounds clean to me.
|
|
Same here -- round south Cheshire around 50% of taxis are either Octavia, Superb or Passat B5.5
|
|
|
|
|
The common rail engine.
As far as I can see Toyotas seem to be a little dull, but bomb proof. Would a 2 y.o, low mile, common rail engined Avensis be a better bet to cover say 125000 miles over 5 years than say a similar Passat/407/Vectra/Mondeo judged purely on ease of ownership?
|
Without a doubt curious - for trouble free motoring over a 5 year period with a car that will be 7 years old at the end, the Avensis will beat the others easily.
The thing to remember also is the dealers will be better and Toyota have a habit of extending warranties to 5 years on specific issues if the design or manufacturing process is at fault. I'm afraid the others will be turning their back on you on day one after the 3 years is up. In VW's case they will even try that before the 3 years is up based on what I have read of owners on here - although they do like to do things as gestures of good will within the warranty period !!!!!!!!
For ease of ownership it has to be Toyota from all the cars you listed.
|
>For ease of ownership it has to be Toyota from all the cars you listed>
But I'm sure I've read somewhere in HJ over the past year or so that Toyota (and Honda) common rail diesels are starting to show signs of similar problems to other makes.
|
|
|
Yes Curious, I have to agree with Pendlebury and second the recommendation for Toyota in that bunch.
Without wanting to sound defensive, I'm always interested to hear Toyota's written off as dull, with the implication that somehow the Ford/VW/Peugeot alternatives are in some way exciting.
To my mind, as a driver of cars in that class, none are exciting, all are mass-market and of the differentiating characteristics 'dullness' or 'interesting-ness' is about lowest on my list. When researching my buys I have never thought 'ooh, how exciting'. Maybe when glancing at the 350Zs, M5s or RX-8s around the forecourt, but not the family saloon/hatch stuff.
I'm unsure if others actually find their VWs and Peugeots exciting, or whether they are just buying in to the media's perception that everything Japanese is dull as ditchwater unless it is boasts 280bhp and 4wd.
|
|
I do agree with you,Bristol, I don't think "exciting" is an adjective that can be applied to any mainstream mass produced car, whatever the marque. All are competent these days, in fact I'm amazed just how competent a car can be bought for a few grand. I recently had a ride in a 3 series 330i ( I think) and whilst no doubt about its competency, it didn't excite me at all. I guess it's an individual thing, trying to think of cars that have raised my pulse, a 1969 Mini Cooper S and a recent ride in an E type Jag where we managed 135+ down the local road, but perhaps that was fear!
|
Another vote for the VAG 1.9 PD, as long as you can guarantee it's had servicing at the correct intervals and with the right oil.
130PS version is the optimum in my opinion.
Noisy and rough by common rail standards, but still a brilliant performer and astonishingly frugal. The refinement shortcomings are partly offset by the fact that you never need to rev this engine. 2500 RPM gives plenty of punch for daily driving. It really does.
Cheers
DP
|
It does indeed, and the 2.0 TDI is worth it every time over the 1.9, with very little loss in economy and plenty more torque. I look forward to trying the new common-rail engine, and I hope that the increased refinement isn't accompanied by loss of torque.
DP - you like your Scenic: I can't remember which diesel engine it has but how does it compare with the VAG unit? I had a good test run in a 2.0 diesel Scenic 150 bhp and liked the engine's performance and refinement, but the car itself was too wallowy for my taste and trim was falling off the 7,000 mile demonstrator.
Edited by Avant on 06/04/2008 at 15:02
|
|
Hw about the Volvo D5, i've just bought one and its powerful and quiet and returns 45 mpg.
|
|
|
Hi Avant,
We have the 1.9dCi 120PS version, deliberately chosen to avoid all the FAP nonsense
It's not as gutsy feeling as the VAG engine, and lacks that satisfying part throttle surge, but is much more linear and "petrol-like" in its response, and very free revving by diesel standards, sounding and feeling happy to be extended right round towards 5,000 RPM. As I said, the trade off is the lack of punch lower down, but I suspect the new 150 bhp engine is better in that respect. Most impressive of all though is the refinement. In normal driving you can barely hear it at all, and when revved it remains smooth and composed, without a hint of the typical deep diesel rumble. Apart from two glow plug failures (which would have been one if I hadn't been a cheapskate and replaced the full set), the engine hasn't needed any attention outside of routine maintenance, and doesn't use a drop of oil.
As you discovered, it's not a drivers car by any stretch of the imagination (I personally dislike the horrid electric power steering more than the soft set up), but as a long legged, comfy family cruiser, we've been delighted with the car. Build quality is surprisingly good in the main, but with alarmingly cheap plastics used in places (a typical French car and no real surprise), but we had the car professionally valeted last weekend and were both amazed how well it scrubbed up inside. The seats and carpets came up as new (50k on the clock) and the only signs of wear were on the gearknob, and the B-pillar trim. There's a daft piece of design which allows the seatbelts to chafe on the pillar trim and wear a groove in it.
Reliability? A bust electric window regulator which Renault UK paid for even though the warranty had expired by two months, and a problem with the panoramic sunroof. Oh, and the glow plugs mentioned earlier. That's in just over a year and 15,000 miles of typical family hack (ab)use.
We do really like it. It's just very "French" in that it's quite stylish (for a people carrier), a little quirky, and very comfy and soft.
Cheers
DP
Edited by DP on 06/04/2008 at 16:25
|
I'm running a Golf Mk4 150bhp diesel with 128K on the clock (Jan 04 reg'd) with no major problems to date, whilst the weekend runabout is a Shogun 3.2 DiD (Apr 01 reg'd) with 115K on the clock, and only an oil leak to fix now...
The VAG for me everytime... We've just bought a new company car, the Audi A3 1.9 Special Edition (105bhp) - 62.8mpg, £35 road tax, obviously 3yr warranty. £80/month tax for a 40% tax payer. £15K on the road inc VAT as first reg'd keeper.
|
SB
Don't go tempting the all-powerful Curse of Murray Walker when you're smoking an ARL and a Shogun with a £1500 DMF.....
|
The Shogun can be scrapped if the flywheel goes - and the Golf is only about £700 worth of clutch & DMF.
Still, I'm keeping my fingers crossed!
|
|
Buy a diesel what is clean to run and DPF is not a nonsense in my opinion.All cars have their problems if not taking care off.Like humans as they get older they fall to bits.
|
|
Haruimph
1.9TDI VW lump
1998 june reg, chipped to 125 bhp at about 50,000
222,222 miles today recorded......all origional, clutch, head gasket , exhaust etc everything of significence.
PS..........50.5 mpg recorded over the last 2700 miles ( 90 hrs at 30 mph ave)
but meticilous re oil & coolant, (mind the brake fluid has never been changed)
then f--------- fleec her ( well not really) but tows regularly
|
|
Sounds good DD. At what intervals did you change the cambelt?
|
|
60,000 per VW schedule
plus run her on tractor oil, being Case No1, changed every 5000 with the filter.
& swopped to every 10,000 when I switched to Comma or whatever other mid range spec semi synth.
cheers
M
|
Just my 2 pennorth. Madrid is said to have 9000 Octavia taxis. I know they get special prices for a model called TOUR which is a stripped down Mk 1 but can 9000 taxi drivers be wrong ??
Well obviously but I'm not telling them !!
|
|
Damn--missed the point that they are all diesels of course.
|
|
They are, but probably not equipped with a DPF. It'll be interesting to see what taxi-drivers choose in future when they replace their cars. DPFs and urban taxi work aren't made for each other. I can see a bright future for the Octavia 1.2 TSI which I believe isn't as underpowered as the engine size might suggest.
|
|
Erm, I swithered about ordering one of the last of the 1.9 diesels in the Octavia ( ordered a 1.6 diesel instead) ..............however, one of the apparently more interested & knowledgable salesmen commented that Skoda was still producing this varient for the fleet market, I figgered primarily for the Taxi trade
|
|
Since this site has fried my brain with its idosyncracies/crashs recently I will make another comment re the 1.2 TSI in the Yeti ( which I would have preferred to the OCtavia) Its a wee wonder, drives like a diesel since I had just stepped out of a 1.9TDI and noticed NO difference in the driving style required, never stalled that pipsqueak of an engine the once , no difference in change up revs either that I noticed
|
|
Dieseldogg - I'm sorry if you're still having problems with the software: our developer works hard to stop these things happening and still they come back. I'm so glad I don't work in IT - it would drive me round the bend. Sometimes I dream of a blissful world where I never hear the words 'software' or 'server' again....
If you (or anyone else) have any further problems, please E-mail us (moderators@honestjohn.co.uk) and we can pass your comments straight on to the developer.
|
|
Hey
Avant, Not specifically this Forums problem, its a work related internet access filter thinngy as well, & I'm lucky to get on the computer at Home............... its needed for gaming
sigh
Well at least hes off to uni thisbackend
Cheers
M
|
|
Most local taxi drivers use Octavia diesels and, barring one who hit unlucky with his, all others say they are very impressed with the economy and performance. An Octavia is cheaper and more reliable than a Passat as well.
An interesting choice would be a Jaguar X Type 2.2 diesel. My friend Adam in Bournemout has one and it is almost as quiet as a petrol Jaguar yet returns 45-50mpg, far more than the 2.0 petrol he had previously.
|
I was also unlucky when I got my derv.
It was a 03 octavia 19tdi alh engine. Had 23k miles.
but found on cold starts that it was reluctent to start, and coff'ed/lumpyed up to running ok, with lots of blue and white smoke.
turned out that th hg was naf, gasses were getting into the header, and smoke coming out of it if cold started with cap off.
but, there was more.....
It had the original cambelt, so i got that changed due to age. note the smoke/starting issue was there prior to change.
The original belt was still pressent and showing signs of age.
now back to the hg, I took it in to be done, and had it skimmed, and valve guides needed changing too and 2 followers(oil filled) fell apart.
was noted that the piston tops were scuffed and damaged and 3 conrod were assumed bent as the tops did not go as high as the 1 did. no idea how or what happened there, i moved it on once hg was done, too costly to carry on, it had some chequered history that car did.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
