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Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy?  
Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - a900ss
Just browsing Ebay for nothing in particular (as you do!) and noticed a tuning box for a turbo diesel car. It got me thinking that they all claim extra power AND extra MPG.

Now the extra power I can understand by turning up the turbo a bit but extra economy? Surely that is rubbish. When you are accelerating, you'll be usibng more fuel as the turbo is turned up and when you are cruising surely it makes no difference to economy.

Thoughts/Experiences most welcome.

Tags: owning turbochargers unexplained noises turbos diesels

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - Roly93
I'm all in favour of diesel ECU re-mapping as it almost always works really well.
However I do not like tuning boxes, as all they usually do is fool the ECU into thinking a greater air-mass is being drawn into the engine, and hence more fuel is injected, which isn't a brilliant idea really.
Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - boxsterboy
When I have re-mapped diesels they are more economical and smoother, too at the same vehicle speed. They are more economical because for the same performance the engine is working more efficiently/less hard. I have seen dyno print-outs showing smoother torque curves. And if you use the all extra performance, they will have about the same economy as when you used all the performance pre-re-map.
Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - quizman
Boxterboy, which remapping firms are the best? I am a bit interested in increasing my power slightly.
Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - quizman
The reason for asking is on one website they spell their as there. If they can't tell their from there how can they remap my car?
Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - FotheringtonThomas
I'm all in favour of diesel ECU re-mapping as it almost always works really well.


As a matter of interest, why don't the makers supply cars with this already done?
Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - jc2
Usually because there are regulations to meet concerning emissions,fuel economy,hot start,cold start,engine performance,driveability,noiseand durability.
Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - cheddar
I agree with JC2 though emissions is the main reason.
Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - jc2
Sorry,I missed SMOKE.
Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - GranTurismo
The main reason manufacturers don't do this is simple - they're erring on the side of caution. If they build in a wide tolerance of different engine usuage (stop/start, motorway, people who trundle around in 5th gear at 40mph & choke their engines, etc.) then the ECU can handle them all over a long period of time and help to protect the engine. What ECU remapping does is refine the power/torque curves & effectively reduce that 'wide margin for error'. It's like a decathlon runner focussing on fewer events in order to increase their performance level. Power, torque and economy go up - while excess fuelling or over-rich fuelling is reduced. If done correctly, it's a win-win situation.
Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - Pader

For the very simple reason that they charge hundreds of pounds more for a vehicle with an uprated engine. The engines are identical, it is just that some are electronically detuned.

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - Steve Pearce
I had a tuning box on a 2.0 litre Picasso for a while and it didn't seem to harm the economy at all.
Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - perleman
in answer to the 'who & where' part, I used Superchips to remap my Golf GTI from 150 to 190 BHP. Massive massive difference, gave it acceleration similar to my present Boxster. Look at Revo too, they can do a free trial on certain drive-by-wire cars such as post 2000 Golfs.

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - MikeDavis
I'd stay away from the £100 ebay boxes, they usually claim to be digital but they're not and you can get overheating problems from them if you ramp them up too much. My box gave me a definite performance boost, and I can only assume it made the car more economical because I wasn't filling the tank up any more often despite the obvious performance benefits.

Wasn't cheap but took 10 minutes to fit myself rather than having the hassle of taking it down for a remap.

Edited by rtj70 on 20/05/2009 at 21:03

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - davidh
I've got a modern common rail diesel and I've been sniffing round re-mapping. I've got the same feeling about re-mappers that I had about LPG converting firms (make of that what you will LOL!)

What I would want to know is:-

1) Who's map is it? As some tuners seem to buy a generic map in for a particular engine code.
2) What parameters have been changed? Boost, Fuelling, Speed limiter,rev limiter etc etc....
3) In what way is it tailored to my particular car? Is the map rolling roaded and tweeked for my car?
4) What will the resultant output figures be and show me on my car before and after on a rolling road.
5) Can I have a different torque curves?
6) What manufacturer preset safety limits have been adjusted?
7) What guarantees do I have that it wont go bang!
8) What makes you qualified to adjust my car? What training have you had and do you understand the science/technology behind what you are doing?
9) Am I tuned for maximum smoke come MOT time lol (an old electronics joke)

How on earth can you get re-mapped properly on your driveway like some of these guys offer without a rolling road as evidence? It seems to me that a lot of the time after the remap the tuner would say "ooh this flies now so it must have 200 bhp like we said (and that joe blogs we got the map off said we would)" Dont make me laugh. If I was going down this route I'd get an ECU re-flasher off ebay and a generic tuner map on DVD and do it myself.

If I handed over 400 smackeroonies over to some driveway come-to-your-house re-mapper I too would be saying "blimey it flies now" to try and justify to myself what is effectively an unverified bodge.
Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - Woodspeed
Car manufacturers also need to consider the extra load on other components. Particularly gearboxes, drive shafts and CV joints. Higher revs destroy engines. Higher torque destroys driveline components.
Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - Martin Devon
Had my Renault Master van 'done' several years ago by Simon Coe representing Upsolute.com.

I have had no problems since then and I guess it was around 2003.

Flat area below 1500 rpm like all CR Diesels, but midway in the main torque band the engine note drops and a smoothness develops and the thing just pulls and pulls and pulls even towing a 2 ton trailer laden.

In my limited experience it is well worth the money. I have friends that have had big diesel cars 'done' by other companies and to date I have never heard of a bad experience only grinning faces.

My fuel economy never altered and 24.5 -25.5 has always been the norm.

The re-map thing, if carried out professionally seems to transform a vehicle ironing out the 'lumps and bumps'. Real drivers with an understanding of Torque and the workings of an internal combustion engine will know what I mean.

To the doubters, please do not expect your pride and joy to be transformed in to an amazing beast of a machine that rears it's head at every press of the throttle. It doesn't work like that.

One only gets the hammer down in a Straight line at Santa Pod etc. The rest of it is just everyday driving and to most people the 'chip' won't do it for you, but to the people that 'have a feel' for driving and the ability of an engine it is probably worth the while.

It just takes the Parlour Maid and turns her into a bit of a Lady.

Lud & Co. probably get it or I am done for by my old mate!!!!!!!!!

Best regards to all including Dave. I got the mail and I will try my best. Regards to you too Sir. M.
















Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - craig-pd130

I know two people that had their Passat TDis remapped by Simon at Upsolute, he came to them and spent plenty of time doing the job.

Both owners extremely satisfied with the results.
Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - alan 350

Ive had some good experiences with Diesel tuning boxes. Ive had units from DTUK and Chip Express, but I've been most impressed with the Bluespark Pro Diesel Tuning Box I have fitted to my Mondeo ST. Ive had it fitted for 5000 miles now, the power is startlingly different, but even better is that my fuel economy has gone up by around 10 MPG!

They also do an Economy tuning box, but as I havent used one of those I couldnt really comment on it. If you are looking to improve your MPG though I would very much reccomend the Bluespark units.

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - MikeTorque

Is the extra 10 MPG taken from the trip computer or brim to brim ?
Also what was the additional cost of insurance as a result of adding this device ?

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - unthrottled

So a 20-25% increase in engine efficiency -with no mechanical changes?

Toss it on an independantly operated dyno, confirm the claim-then claim your Nobel prize...

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - madf

I fitted a diesel yuning box to my Yarus d4d. Definitley more power. And no change in fuel consumption.. One of the cheaper ones setting the pump to overfuel.

BUT:

lots of diesel knock when cold - not ther when removed.

and

lots of black/grey smoke on hard accleration as it tended to clog up the catalysts - and clear when booted hard.

I removed it: less power but quieter and smoother.

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - unthrottled

But madf, I thought your Yaris never went north of 30mph-extra power is surely redundant?! ;)

Interesting observation about the knock. Did this happen at cruise or just when you booted it? Knock tends to only gets worse when the timing is advanced...

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - craig-pd130

I ran a cheap tuning box on my B5.5 Passat PD130, of the type that exploited the well-documented "substitute a fixed resistor into the fuel temperature sensor plug" trick that's common to the VAG 1.9 PD motors.

This trick fools the ECU into thinking the fuel is at a higher temperature, and therefore less dense, so it injects a slightly greater volume of fuel per cycle while remaining within the ECU's operating parameters. Never threw a CEL / code while I had it.

It did give a very useful boost in torque (for example, half a second off the 40-60mph interval in 4th gear, which is quite substantial) and had no noticeable impact on economy. In fact, I recorded the only genuine 50mpg brim-to-brim tankful I managed with that car, with the box fitted.

I ran it for about 8,000 miles but eventually removed it, because it made the throttle response absolutely hair-trigger at low rpm in the first eighth of pedal travel, which made town traffic and commuting tiresome.

But it was fun and well worth the money (about £25), in my view.

Edited by craig-pd130 on 12/12/2011 at 16:32

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - brum

Not sure but I have an slight inkling that alan 350 might be someone marketing their snake oil product. He doesnt appear to have started any other threads.....

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - jamie745

My mate told me about his car which runs on water.....

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - brum

"My mate told me about his car which runs on water....."

Yeah, I saw that too but as it only does 5 mpg I gave it a miss.

Edited by brum on 12/12/2011 at 17:15

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - thunderbird

Have been tempted in the past but if they are so good why don't manufacturers offer them as aftermarket accessories, surely that would not affect approvals.

With dpf's they are a definite no go area, the extra smoke that is a by product of dumping extra diesel in to produce more power and torque kills tham in no time, loads of evidence on continental forums where they have been using dpf's longer than us.

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - unthrottled

where they have been using dpf's longer than us.

The cars on the continent use the same engines/emissions systems as UK bound cars. The DPF is one component that should cope with over fuelling without difficulty. Extra smoke is accompanied by higher EGTs, so the soot will burn off without a problem.

Edited by unthrottled on 12/12/2011 at 18:41

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - BenG

Had my old Focus TDCi remapped and it greatly improved the responsiveness of the engine to the accelerator as well as improving ultimate performance and mpg also went up by 2-3mpg.

I got the feeling that, as standard, the turbo wold not really kick in unless I floored it whereas, post remap, the pick-up at part 'throttle' was much better.

I'm getting my current car done next Saturday.

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - thunderbird

where they have been using dpf's longer than us.

The cars on the continent use the same engines/emissions systems as UK bound cars. The DPF is one component that should cope with over fuelling without difficulty. Extra smoke is accompanied by higher EGTs, so the soot will burn off without a problem.

Simply not true, dpf's have been mandatory in certain EU countries for many years, in the UK manufacturers only fitted them to Euro 4 cars when necessary, they only became mandatory with Euro 5.

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - Avant

"Not sure but I have a slight inkling that alan 350 might be someone marketing their snake oil product. He doesnt appear to have started any other threads....."

Yes, I wondered too - but as he doesn't comment on the Economy version rather than plugging that too, I think we give him the benefit of the doubt.

Alan, we don't allow free adverts, as our genuine advertisers pay good money, but you might like to confirm that you don't have any connection with the products except as a customer.

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - oldtoffee

>>>>Not sure but I have an slight inkling that alan 350 might be someone marketing their snake oil product. He doesnt appear to have started any other threads.....

A quick search on that company does show an "Alan" as one of the directors. Probably just a coincidence....


Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - Andy P

What sort of response do you get from your insurance company when you tell them you've had your engine remapped? Swiftcover would't insure mine.

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - focussed

I have read somewhere that starting next year the MOT will be looking for remapped ECU's and if found will result in a fail. How are they are going to detect this on all sorts of different vehicles with all sorts of different ECU's and software?

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - unthrottled

It's an urban myth. All the MOT tester can really do is a visual inspection of the exhaust system to see if the Cat/DPF is there. Even then, they can't tell if the boxes have been gutted.

The MOT diesel emissions test is really just a visual smoke test. If they used the same gas analysers that they do for petrols, then EGR delete/cat gutting would flag up straight away...

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - brum

As Alan 350 has not replied to Avant's invitation to demonstrate he is not linked commercially to the products in his post, I suggest a Moderator delete the product names/links in his post with an explanation added.

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - madf

But madf, I thought your Yaris never went north of 30mph-extra power is surely redundant?! ;)

Interesting observation about the knock. Did this happen at cruise or just when you booted it? Knock tends to only gets worse when the timing is advanced...

The knock only happened c 1,000rpm to 2,500rpm when cold and accelerating. When cruising there was no noise. It disappeared when warm.

PS: 30mph? Far too fast for am oldie like me. I have a person with a Red Flag...

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - Collos25

Are not remapping or any other form of tampering illegal from 2012 in the UK as part of the new MOT regulations.

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - RT

Are not remapping or any other form of tampering illegal from 2012 in the UK as part of the new MOT regulations.

How will they check, in the case of a remap?

For the last 15 years I think all of my new cars have been remapped at least once by the dealer under warranty to correct slight running problems.

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - madf

SInce many ECUs have software updates to solve issues, I would suggest checking ECU software is impossible in practical terms.

Just check for added boxes/wiring and bobs your auntie...

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - Collos25

Always thought my Auntie Bob was suspect.

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - thunderbird

SInce many ECUs have software updates to solve issues, I would suggest checking ECU software is impossible in practical terms.

A dealer updating the ECU software is not the same as a remap.

If you have a remap and them the dealer overwrites it with an update you will have to pay agin for a remap

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - RT

A dealer updating the ECU software is not the same as a remap.

If you have a remap and them the dealer overwrites it with an update you will have to pay agin for a remap

Then surely an update and remap are the same in the sense that the ECU map is changed from the original - an MoT tester has no tools to detect whether the ECU map is original, authorised through the dealer or changed by a tuner.

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - brum

Recent ECU designs have code that is digitally signed, i.e. it has a secure method of checking its autheticity via the CANBUS interface. A manufacturers update, also updates the digital signature. Third parties cannot do this.

Before long, the I expect the MOT stations will have newly mandated (siemens?) equipment that can be plugged into the standard CANBUS or whatever and check.

This will potentially only affect cars produced in the last few years.

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - madf

" the MOT stations will have newly mandated (siemens?) equipment that can be plugged into the standard CANBUS or whatever and check."

The only socket on most cars is the OBD one.. I doubt if access to the ECU internals is fully ppossible thorugh that.

Many ECUs are phyically inaccessible in a dry and secure place #,, (often behind the dash so if it is not the OBD socket, it is unlikely to be possible).

Except some manufacturers place them on the floor so if you get a leak...

Edited by madf on 14/12/2011 at 18:15

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - thunderbird

A dealer updating the ECU software is not the same as a remap.

If you have a remap and them the dealer overwrites it with an update you will have to pay agin for a remap

Then surely an update and remap are the same in the sense that the ECU map is changed from the original - an MoT tester has no tools to detect whether the ECU map is original, authorised through the dealer or changed by a tuner.

A dealer ECU update may not change the map but change some other parameter since the ECU controls many of the cars features.

A manufacturers update is carried out for reasons other than supposedly getting loads more power and better fuel economy.

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - GranTurismo

I'm seriously looking at a particular tuning box after researching 3 or 4 different ones. It offers 4-6 more MPG under regular driving conditions, better acceleration via more power/torque & a much less useable extra 10 mph top speed. It's the improved MPG I would be interested in as I'm only getting 39-40 MPG from my diesel - the dealer claims this is perfectly normal & acceptable (perhaps to them, but not me !).

The vendor claims a 14 day money-back guarantee with a 3 year warranty, so it sounds good up front. Methinks I will put it to the test by having a dyno test done before & after the fitting to check on their claims. Then over the next week I can keep an eye on the MPG. If I decide to have this done, I will most certainly report back here with the findings.

Edited by GranTurismo on 31/12/2011 at 12:23

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - thunderbird

If you do go ahead do not use the figures from the fuel confuser to compare your mpg. One proven fact having looked at many forums is one thing the boxes/chips are very good at is fooling the display to show a much higher figure than you are actually getting. To get an accurate comparison you will need to do at least 3 tank to tank fill ups before and after using the car as "normally" as possible.

If its a recent diesel with a DPF simply don't do it, you will have endless DPF problems, its well documented on continental sites where they have DPF's longer than us.

If the car is still under warranty you will loose that if the dealer finds evidence of changes on an ECU check should you have a problem, some boxes and chips leave fault codes.

Don't forget to tell your insurance company.

Edited by thunderbird on 31/12/2011 at 13:39

Diesel Tuning Boxes and Increased economy? - GranTurismo

First of all, my Auris is way out of the 3 year warranty so I'm not bothered about that. Secondly, it's a 10 min job to connect or remove the box I'm looking at - so the dealer or garage I take it to will have no idea it's even been fitted. Lastly, there are several other SR owners using this box & none of them have reported any DPF issues yet. Most of them are going on their own by the looks of it, with no help from the tuning boxes. As for insurance, I always declare any mods to them. Better to be safe than sorry ! :)

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