> citing company policy or somesuch.
At the salesmans exit interview.....
Sorry boss, didnt realise we would be £45k out of pocket...
I didnt know he was going bust and had been declared bankrupt
Of course I didnt know he was planning to leave the country with his mistress.
The bloke on the phone sounded like he was calling from the bank
Do I get a reference?
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< Ulla>
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Great story but in reality I'm sure the dealership would have sued him for breach of contract.
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"would have sued him for breach of contract"
Whereupon he would have contacted the local paper and the customers would have disappeared in droves! The Isle of Wight is just like a big village, which is why the garage was so stupid. The buyer is well known locally and everyone here knows everyone else's business - I can only assume the salesman was some hot-shot from another part of the group. A local girl I know went to work for the same branch and was made miserable by the attitude of the salesmen who, sadly, lived up to the stereotypes of the job and the brand.
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If they run a business then why on earth didn't they do what normal people do and pay by debit card?
To be honest, nobody will now take a cheque for a car. Cheques are useless payment devices which can easily be recalled despite the funds being available weeks afterwards. Unfortunately, it is often the most apparently respectable local people who turn out to be the ones on the con. That's how it works - the obviously dodgy people are usually legit.
It is all very well but from the dealer's point of view the company could have been about to go into liquidation and the house about to be reposessed (this is actually probably a required qualification to be buying an X5 anyway). Most dealers have strict payment policies laid down from a head office somewhere and the salesman has absolutely no leeway in the rules.
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I pay all my business bills by cheque,ive not been turned down yet,ive only used the debit card in currys for a printer
I would understand if i had to wait till it cleared if i wasnt known though.
A friend used to run a cash poor business but always plenty of work so he used to sell the debts to a third party for something like 15% factoring i think he called it
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When I bought my last car, I paid by debit card. The dealer rang me week before and asked how I liked to pay. They said only way to give me the keys instantly is debit card payment. For cheques, they would wait for 10 days and for security reason, they didn't accept cash. They said they won't accept credit card either for over £1000 amount.
That doesn't leave any choice other than debit card payment.
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A great story that must have improved with the telling. Perhaps he was paying for it from the business a/c, so didn't have debit card, but my guess is that any salesman/sales manager worth his salt would have suggested a CHAPS (used to be called telegraphic transfer) which is cleared funds in a couple of hours. He'd then have delivered the car to the buyer's address.
A cheque for that amount is worthless for a week. Once it clears, fine. Until then it's just a slip of paper, and anyone with a business knows that.
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I paid for my Honda Accord by Debit card , it was far easier to transfer the money from savings account to current account from my computer and then enter my PIN when the salesman asked than faff around with cheques.
Lots of High St companies will not even take a cheque these days - Boots is one that won't I believe.
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>A friend used to run a cash poor business but always plenty of work so he used to sell the debts to a third party for something like 15% factoring i think he called it <
Your friend didn't run Northern Rock by any chance, did he?
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Your friend didn't run Northern Rock by any chance did he?
>>>>>>>>no lol , but he did go bust though as his lines of credit were all used up,someone in china slightly undercut him on price, even the masons who were his favourite club couldnt get him out of that hole
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I've never had a problem with salesmen, I go in knowing exactly what I want.
Back in 94, a couple of years out of Uni and buying my first real car, I saw the one I wanted in Autotrader. It was a two-year old 605 from a Peugeot dealer in Woking, the salesmen drove it to Hammersmith where I was working so that I could test drive it. When it came to the deal it was working out just that little bit too expensive, I said "look, I have x deposit and x to spend a month and nothing more". He called a couple of hours later to say that he'd "made the figures work". When I went to collect it, I was met at the train station and driven to the dealership. The whole experience was so pleasant, effortless and professional I've always bought from dealers since then. I'll never forget the salesman's name, it was Dick King (how could you forget that?) and off the back of him and his team I've had about 4 Peugeots since then.
It's not hard to please me. Be civil. Turn up when you say you're gonna turn up. Make sure there's always chips on the menu.
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It's not hard to please me. Be civil. Turn up when you say you're gonna turn up. Make sure there's always chips on the menu.
if every business acted like that all forums would have to close as we'd have nothing to complain about.
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where would businesses be though if the gaffa cant take deep intakes of breath and look all pompous like?
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A friend used to run a cash poor business but always plenty of work so he used to sell the debts to a third party for something like 15% factoring i think he called it
Factoring usually pays c80% up front then the remaining 20% when customers pay. There is interest on the advanced money of course and a management fee (2-4% usually) but then it is worth it if it keeps your business afloat!
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Cheques are useless payment devices which can easily be recalled despite the funds being available weeks afterwards.
Not after 30th November when "certainty of fate" is being intoduced - max time a cheque can be returned will be 7 days working days, even if the cheque is stolen or fraudulent.
I think that stopping a cheque will only be possible until the day the cheque is presented to the issuing bank.
Edited by Bill Payer on 23/11/2007 at 14:07
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can this be applied retrospectively?
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'the problem comes when someone knows more than they do about the product they are selling'
I've never yet found a car salesman that knew more than SWMBO never mind me about their own cars never mind the main competitors. What DO they do all day?
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"required qualification to be buying an X5"
LOL!
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I wonder how many backroomers if, on the day of completion selling their house would be happy if their buyer, who lives locally and has a business locally, called up and said no, I'm not going to do a CHAPS (wire) payment for your house but here is a cheque, you can phone the bank to check if you're not sure, It'll clear after 7 days, honest, would then happily hand over the keys?
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I would be happier doing it with my house than with my car, since I always know where my house is: Things might be more diffilcult once your car has disappeared.
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Around 1980 a friend's uncle was shown the door by a Rolls Royce dealer as they assumed he was a penniless time waster. My friend's uncle regarded expensive clothes as a waste of money! Anyway he has seen the car he wanted and went a back a few days later with a briefcase of cash. Their attitude changed immediately!
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with a briefcase of cash. Their attitude changed immediately!
These days they'd wet themselves due to money laundering regulations.
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If I had been your friend's uncle I would have bought my car at another dealer and then driven it round and showed it to the salesman!
madf
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A Nigerian used a stolen cheque for £66 k that he couldn't cash to ' buy ' a car at BMW Park Lane in the early 90's . He just told them he would transfer the money. The car cost £38 k . They rang to say the car was ready, he apologised for the mistake in sending too much., they said ' no problem ' they will give a cheque for the balance ..
Greed got the better of him , he then said prior to collection he changed his mind about the car , leaving the country etc. Full refund etc .. they got suspicious , checked , the guy was arrested on ' collection ' of the ' refund ' cheque .
My friend the accountant whose company name was similar to that of the payee on the stolen cheque and who turned the guy away before he tried BMW was at the trial as witness - this story is 100% firm .
I believe dealers will only take £5 k in cash now ... however , that can't be difficult to circumvent if one was determined ..
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Around 1980 a friend's uncle was shown the door by a Rolls Royce dealer as they assumed he was a penniless time waster.
They sold the car though didn't they? Maybe better salesmen than you think...
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Cash is king I'm afraid, and a debit card is as good as cash.
A cheque? I would have quite happily turned away £45K if presented in the form of a cheque and wait for someone who could pay their bills properly to come along rather than risk losing the car!
I can't comprehend this place sometimes, how on earth can anyone think badly of the dealer for doing what they did?
Blue
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I once went into a jaguar dealer and dressed really scruffy, i wanted to buy a new xjs and the salesman treated me like I was a tramp on the street.Considering that I am a stockbroker it just gos to show how stupid salesmam really are.Never judge a book by its cover.
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Depends whether he had anything better to do or not, sorry but if there's a scruff (not that I'm saying you're a scruff!) and a well dressed bloke in the showroom I know which one I'd go for, getting the decision right may mean a big difference to the pay packet. We can all quote examples of the tramp going in and buying a Roller (my gran used to work at Vardys at Stoneygate and they had one that would go in and buy new Jags with a suitcase of cash) but really, most scruffs who turn up to a dealership are just that, penniless and wanting a poke around a nice car.
This particularly applies with executive marques as they attract every space cadet out there to come in for a stare at the shiny thing, less of a problem in a bargain basement car supermarket.
I would say my philospohy was always to talk to them if there was no one else in, but if I had to make a choice it was always the better looking ones that got spoken to first, also, if I had a guy on his own and a couple in the showroom to choose from, the couple would be spoken to first as invariably, it was the woman who was in charge of the purchasing decision, the guy on his own wouldn't be able to make a decision there and then, he'd always have to ask the quartermaster.
So actualy, it doesn't show how stupid car salesman are, it shows that they are able to sum up potential purchasers within a few seconds and get it right 9 times out of 10.
Blue
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Oops, forgot to add, before everyone accuses me of being sub-human, I did always have the decency to acknowledge the prescence of everyone who walked in even if I was already engaged, I couldn't have you all thinking that I totally ignore people in poor attire!
Blue
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i dont work in a dealership Blue {P} but i know its very difficult to seperate pork from purchaser and if i try and do it by the wisp of their cuff i normally get it wrong,i use my lugs mainly ,plus body language and if they light a cig up then bingo you have one genuine nervous purchaser to prise wonga out of, also listen to what they say and suss them in 20 words dead,shorts and sandals i object to though,had one this week ive got long johns on hes got shorts on,how can you take people like this seriously and let him sit in a car that he probably wont purchase but leave man bits on the seats.....yuk no thank you.........next..........
Edited by bell boy on 23/11/2007 at 22:03
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Reply To Blue,How can you tell by the way a person is dressed if they are serious about buying a car, I wear a suit 5 days a week with a tie wrapped round my neck, the last thing i want to do is be to dressed up like a turkey on on a saturday morning.Just a pair of tracksuit bottoms and and a tee shirt. Maybee you missed out on a few sales in the past.
Who cares the way that you are dressed its the money that counts and I bet the 8 out of the 10 paid on finance.I know lots of guys in my industry that dress down on purpose just for the hell of it as they know what salesmen are like, most of the time they get it wrong.
You have to be really sad to go to a car showroom if you have no intention of buying.
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tracksuit bottoms and and a tee shirt. Maybee you missed out on a few sales in the past. You have to be really sad to go to a car showroom if you have no intention of buying.
You're right, I almost certainly did, but ultimately, I also managed to catch a lot more by avoiding wasting my time on some of the countless people that have no intention of buying a car. Believe it or not, there are literally hundreds of people up and down the country who go looking in garages on a disturbingly regular basis without ever buying anything.
I did not say that I would avoid speaking to people who are dressed down, just that if I have a choice to make, I will go for the one that looks the better prospect, dress is often an indicator (although not always).
Personally if I was going shopping for a nice car I would probably dress down too as I know IO wouldn't get hassled as much until I'm actually ready to buy when I would approach the sales staff.
I wasn't trying to suggest you should go shopping in top hat and tails, merely suggesting that you may be mistaken in your "salesmen are stupid" assertion and putting forward a case that there are very good reasons why sales staff will be more keen to approach some customers than others.
Blue
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You seem like a good salesman who knows what the customer needs, fully understand your comments. Its still crazy to think that people go to showrooms when they have no intention of buying a car.
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comments. Its still crazy to think that people go to showrooms when they have no intention of buying a car.
I do, frequently. Its very entertaining actually. My favourite game is to take the dog with me "to see if it fits in the boot, you dont mind do you?" Sometime just for the hell of it I get test drives too.
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< Ulla>
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Its all stereotyping isn't it?
When I used to be a manager in the supermarkets, I had to wear collar and tie at work. On my day off it would be joggers, sweatshirt and baseball cap (not the wrong way round though!).
Many a time I was followed by a store detective, in one case he actually knew me and I eventually had to stop, backtrack and let him know it was me and for him to leave me alone!
And to further back this up, on 4 different occasions I caught shoplifters whilst I was in on my day off! Must have thought I was one of them!
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2007 Seat Altea XL 2.0 TDI (140) Stylance
2005 Skoda Fabia vrS
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Bobby, thats really sad shopping in your own store on your day off.
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< Ulla>
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AE wasn't my own shop! Would never do that!
Store tecs work between shops.
I can't stand back and ignore a shoplifter, even if it was at a competitors!
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2007 Seat Altea XL 2.0 TDI (140) Stylance
2005 Skoda Fabia vrS
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Whats wrong with a good old fashioned bankers draft, Dont kwow what all the fuss is about.Put these salesmen in there place in the first place and you wouldnt be ranting on this website.
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So why has the stockbroker downgraded from Jags to Mundaneos with knackered screens?
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To honest columbo, the new mondeo was bought for my wife for her birthday, it was her choice not mine, I still drive a jag.
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This place is crazy, I come on this site for a some help, I get asked by columbo why i downgraded from jags to mondeos and get a salesmen that would rather i wear a top hat and tails to go to a showroom, what makes its even worst is the wifes took my jag and left me with a mondeo that makes me feel like Mr Maggoo when I'me driving!!
You dont know how lucky you are.
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"what makes its even worst is the wifes took my jag and left me with a mondeo that makes me feel like Mr Maggoo when I'me driving!!"
Eh ?
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Mr Maggoo is almost blind, why not ask a question instead of Eh?are you from up north?
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im from uup north t lad and mr magoo is my uncle
he drives a model t with a viva engine fitted and the points set to 30 thou due to wear in the dizzy
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If your uncle is Mr Maggoo ask him if i can borrow his glasses so I can see out of the mondeo windscreen,is he interested is swapping his model T ford by any chance?
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sorry but he says his glasses go to africa when he can no longer see the steering wheel with them
as regards the model t its my inheritax so no sale sorry :-)
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I wouldnt send them glasses to africa if i were you, If the sun gets on them , it could cause a bush fire.
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I think Pugugly's comment of "Eh" was okay. I realised Mr Magoo had poor site and worked out your reference to Ford Quickclear windscreens.
But I still think you're missing the point of this thread.... and a banker's draft is just a piece of paper until cleared. In fact it is possible to get the funds back after they are cleared! Tell you what I will buy your jag with a banker's draft and then see if I can defraud you ;-)
I assume you know Pugugly is one of the mods on this site ;-) With your posts over the last few days someone could get the wrong opinion - I say recent posts as you only joined 2 days ago so might not know Pugugly is a mod.
Edited by rtj70 on 24/11/2007 at 00:36
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assume you know Pugugly is one of the mods on this site ;-) With your posts over the last few days someone could get the wrong opinion - I say recent posts as you only joined 2 days ago so might not know Pugugly is a mod.
I was not aware that Pugugly is one of the mods on the site and if I have caused any offence then please accept my apologies.My banter is purely lighthearted and is not meant to cause offence.I recently joined the site as I was informed it was the best car forum of its kind and I find it very interesting to read peoples opinions.
I look forward to recieving your bankers draft :-)
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I don't expect special treatment because I'm lucky enough to be a Mod. No offence taken anyway. Put a smiley on lest others be offended though..! :-)
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"would be happier doing it with my house than with my car!
You sure about that? My house is worth over £400k my car is worth less than £20k. Well it's not my car but you get the point.
Anyway selling a house normally involves solicitors to handle/clear money so a silly example.
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i'm no fashion model by any stretch of the imagination but tracksuit bottoms in my opinion are the most naff things ever. euch, i think i,m going to throw up just thinking about them. jag.
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"but tracksuit bottoms in my opinion are the most naff things ever"
Well absolutely, there's a world of difference between dressing down and wearing tracky bottoms.
Jeans, t-shirt and a fine pair of cowboy boots can set you back several hundred quid and speak volumes about how stylish you are. Tracky bottoms (and this is just my opinion) mean that you aren't fit to drive, shouldn't be walking into car showrooms and certainly shouldn't be posting on here.
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......Jeans, t-shirt and a fine pair of cowboy boots can set you back several hundred quid and speak volumes about how stylish you are. Tracky bottoms (and this is just my opinion) mean that you aren't fit to drive, shouldn't be walking into car showrooms and certainly shouldn't be posting on here.
Cowboy boots, jeans and tee shirt, great outfit for buying a horse!!! :-)
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"why not ask a question instead of Eh?are you from up north?"
we`ll have less of that, Lad ;)
Welcome to the forum, (from a Northerner)
Edited by oilrag on 24/11/2007 at 13:24
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"eh"
I still don't understand that sentence despite an A level in English
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Thanks oilrag, good to talk with a real lad from up north, northeners are fantastic people with a great sense of humor.
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northeners are fantastic people with a great sense of humor.
That's because they are all coal miners and sheep farmers except in Liverpool where they are very stupid burglars in track suit bottoms. Unfortunately south of the river Trent we are all drug dealers, tabloid hacks and government ministers, so are frightfully boring and po-faced. You can't have everything.
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Reminds me of Jeremy Clarkson when he had to buy a tracksuit to go to the osteopath in. When asked by the salesman what he needed it for, he replied very loudly that he needed it so he could sell drugs to schoolchildren from his car window in Manchester.
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>>>That's because they are all coal miners and sheep farmers except in Liverpool >>>where they are very stupid burglars in track suit bottoms. Unfortunately south of >>>the river Trent we are all drug dealers, tabloid hacks and government ministers, so >>>are frightfully boring and po-faced. You can't have everything.
You sound like a failed MP that's had his tracksuit bottom's stolen by a burgular from Liverpool. you should get some cowboy boots, apparently they are quite fashionable in car dealerships:-)
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To get back to the original theme...
These grumbles about salesman are a regular topic. Whilst its true that car salesmen are not recruited from Oxbridge (and most have few academic qualifications of any sort) they do live by their wits. A fair chunk of the typical salesman's income is in the form of comissions and bonus, so if they get things wrong too often then they end up out of a job.
Most salesmen can sniff out a serious customer most of the time. Body language, questions asked etc are all good indicators. I'm sure they do 'get it wrong' now and again, but on the average any salesman with a year or two's experience comes out ahead.
And if I had £1 for every tale of a scruff that walked into a prestige car 'gin palace' intending to buy on the spot with a bag of cash, then I'd be a very rich man!
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Do you have any figures for respectable looking and sounding executive types who vanish with prestige motors on unaccompanied test drives, Aprilia?
:o)
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No, but I doubt its many. Prestige dealerships usually 'qualify' their customers pretty thoroughly before allowing an unaccompanied test drive. This would usually include details of photo driving license and they would have made arrangements via a landline phone (even if only to 'confirm' the appointment). Contrary to popular opinion of this forum, most salesmen aren't stupid. Seen quite a few posts where someone has just got a new car and got a 'killer deal' out of the salesman - got them to add extras, give discount. 'pushed them really hard' blah blah blah, LOL! Salesman smiling all the way to his commission, I think.... The only way you ever beat the salesman is if you go to showrooms to sample and test-drive cars. Then order from a broker (preferably EU-import)!
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I believe salesmen judge their customers very carefully. The new cars that I have bought from a dealer were always released on cheques. But they knew where I lived, knew I was a professional ( who would be thrown out of his institute if defrauding anyone) and clould collect the money by other measn, not that they would need to.
I was surprised the first time and asked them why thay took th erisk, and they said they weighed each customer up carefully.
So, if a dealer wouldn't take your cheque- neither would I
But Debit cards have changed it all.
I bet plenty of 'under the arch' dealers takes plastic bags full of cash, anyone any evidence?
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Aprilia I take it that for most car sales, the salesman gets a fixed fee? Maybe x for the car, y for finance, z for paintwork protection etc? In other words, is his commision affected by how much profit the dealer makes between trade in price and new car price?
If its not affected, why is there always so much "negotiating" re trade in prices, discounting of new car etc? Is that just sales technique to make you think you have got something else out of him? When they are selling a used car I assume your average salesman won't know how much that car initially cost the dealer in a trade in?
Or is this why many salesman have to keep referring back to their manager before they can make a decision?
And going back to my original point, I would not buy any product from a salesman where he did not have knowledge of the product he was selling.
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2007 Seat Altea XL 2.0 TDI (140) Stylance
2005 Skoda Fabia vrS
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Good few years ago an acquaintence went into main Rover dealer, dressed in his scruff (he rarely "dresses up"). Told salesman he was interested in the Rover 75. Salesman took him outside to show him second hand ones. "What makes you think it's a used one I'm interested in?" Salesman is stuck for words.
"It was actually new ones I was interested in - since I'm replacing my fleet of 12 cars. But since you've assumed I'm a waster because of the way I'm dressed, you can stick your Rovers where the sun doesn't shine". (Acquaintence owns a multi-million pound company that he started from scratch)
He went next door and ordered 12 Pug 406s. Said Rover salesman was sacked! (Weren't they all eventually?)
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I am always amazed at how all these self made millionaires do it when they seem to base commercial decisions on arbitrary ego trip stuff.
Maybe that's why I'm poor :(
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The salesman would only have been sacked if the manager wanted rid of him and he was appallingly bad at his job, there's no chance that they would let you go for mis-qualifying one customer!
If the salesman had been sharper on his feet he would have said:-
"I didn't, I just thought it would be easier to show you all of the different derivatives in the flesh rather than pouring through a brochure, which kind do you like and we'll arrange a test drive?" :-)
Blue
Edited by Blue {P} on 27/11/2007 at 10:51
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I am always amazed at how all these self made millionaires do it when they seem to base commercial decisions on arbitrary ego trip stuff.
Exactly, if your going to get all upset and stroppy about being called a scruff, then don't wear scruffy clothes!!
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