And the worst?
Has to be the Ford Transit, at least from the point of view of noise inflicted on any pedestrians in the vicinity.
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The 6cyl BMWs are impressive as is the 2.7 V6 Ford PSA unit particularly in an S-Type.
However my near 120k TDCi is still pretty much the most refined 4 cyl diesel I have come across and goes as well as ever, petrol like idle, it is MUCH quieter externally than friends A4 and A3 2.0TDis that have done no more than 1/10th of the mileage. IME the Renault 1.9's are as refined though not as punchy, the Toyota D-Cat 2.2 180 is impressive though torque shy below 2000 rpm.
The latest BMW 118d / 318d however offer potentially fantastic economy and low CO2, (much better that the 120d / 320d) and pretty strong performance too, have not driven one to comment on refinement.
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What defines best?
From a personal perspective the 163hp 2.4 5 cyl D5 engine in my S60 is stunning. Quick, a nice 5 cyl growl, not noisy at tick-over and, for the last 5 months, averaging over 50 mpg (53.2 at present) and it gets driven quite hard. I expect the 185hp version which has 20% more torque would be even better.
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For me, it will be a VAG TDi (economical and fast) or a PSA HDi/Ford TDCi (smooth, economical and refined) as my next car as I think that these are the best mainstream diesels around and they seem to be the most common. Would like a BMW 118/120d OR 120/320d but I don't think my budget will stretch quite that far at present!
Peugeot's 1.9TD XUD was one of the best mainstream diesel engines around a decade ago, much better than the likes of Ford and Vauxhall's equivalents in terms of refinement and, to a lesser extent, performance. Still driving a 1994 306TD with 200k on the clock and it still drives like a dream. It's by no means the fastest car in the world, but can leave many cars behind on some long hill climbs, provided the revs are kept between 2,200 and 4,000 rpm and is still a joy to drive on the open road. Fuel economy wise, it's probably as good as many CR diesel engines- I managed to squeeze just under 600 miles out of a full tank a few weeks ago.
Martin
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Peugeot's 1.9TD XUD was one of the best mainstream diesel engines around a decade ago much better than the likes of Ford and Vauxhall's equivalents in terms of refinement and to a lesser extent performance.
I agree. The principle problem with this engine though is its incredibly narrow useable rev range which is about 1800 RPM as you say which was annoying even back then. Even the old nail in the Mondeo manages about 2500.
The XUD is still incredibly smooth though, even by today's standards and a different league to the old nail 1.8TD Ford unit in terms of refinement, even if it only produces a bhp or two more.
Overall I liked our 306 D-Turbo very much, and remember it fondly.
Cheers
DP
--
04 Grand Scenic 1.9 dCi Dynamique
00 Mondeo 1.8TD LX
97 Ford Fiesta 1.4 16v Chicane (for sale)
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The latest BMW 118d / 318d however offer potentially fantastic economy and low CO2
The new twin turbo 2.0d (as in the new 135d Coupe) is not a bad effort with around the 200bhp mark and 138g/km emissions.
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I'm still very impressed with my venerable 405 TD - 188k, happiest at 80 (where the law allows) and enough oomph to keep me out of trouble, though I'm rarely loaded up.
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As usual, I'm the only one flying the flag for Chrysler.
The 3 lt V6 Merc diesel engine in my 300C is a lovely piece of kit (but I couldn't honestly say how it compares to others).
MTC
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Out of the ones I have driven - Mondeo TDDi, Mondeo TDCi, Golf 2.0 GT TDi, Sharan 2.0 TDi, Avensis 2.2 D4-D, Accord 2.2 CTDi - I would place the Honda and Toyota units ahead of the TDCi, followed by the TDi veedubs and with the TDDi bringing up the tail.
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The new twin turbo 2.0d (as in the new 135d Coupe) is not a bad effort with around the 200bhp mark and 138g/km emissions.
The 135d will be the 3.0 twin turbo diesel as in the 335d and 535d, it seems that only the petrol 3.0 128i and 3.0 twin turbo 135i have been announced as of yet.
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I think honourable mentions need to go at this point to the Fiat 1.3 and Hyundai/Kia 1.5 diesel engines -- for such small units both impress. The 1.6 in the Focus/Mazda 3 is an awful rough thing next to the aforementioned 1.5 -- at least it was in the car I drove.
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Nobody mentioned it yet but I like the Honda 2.2.
For its price (BMW supporters note) it is reliable (it is a Honda), economical (mine is), and QUIET (puts VAG s.o to shame), and has reasonable power and torque, and in 102k does not use oil.
Now if I chip it to 160+ bhp!!!!!
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Nobody mentioned it yet but I like the Honda 2.2.
I did!! :) Agree with you that it is an excellent engine, one of the more petrol-like diesels. Refined and reasonably powerful without throwing all the torque at you in one great clumsy lump at 1600rpm.
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This is an excellent engine, I have it in my Civic and it is really refined and economlcal. And being a Honda it is totally reliable too.
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The 135d will be the 3.0 twin turbo diesel as in the 335d and 535d it seems that only the petrol 3.0 128i and 3.0 twin turbo 135i have been announced as of yet.
I would agree with you the badging would suggest using the engine currently in the 3 and 5 series however I read the following:
The coupe's arrival will also coincide with the debut of a new twin-turbo 2.0-litre diesel engine, badged 135d, that will be fitted to other 1 Series models.
It develops 204bhp and 295lb ft of pull, yet still achieves 54.3mpg in the official test, with carbon dioxide emissions of only 138g/km.
It will be one of three engines available in the 1 Series coupe at launch - and two of them are diesels, a sign of the increasing emphasis on environmental concerns, even with stylish performance-oriented cars.
You'll be able to get the baby coupe as a 120d with the existing 177bhp 2.0-litre diesel, or a 135i with the twin-turbo 3.0-litre six-cylinder petrol unit introduced when the 3 Series coupe was launched.
With an output of 306bhp, it turns the 1 Series into a flyer - 0-62mph in 5.3 seconds and a restricted top speed of 155mph.
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>>The coupe's arrival will also coincide with the debut of a new twin-turbo 2.0-litre diesel engine, badged 135d, >>
I would guess that ios a misprint, perhaps it should be 125d?
I have read about the 3.0 128i and 3.0t 135i.
Why oh why cany they just call a 2.0 a 120 and 3.0 a 130 and siginify the power via a suffix such as 130t or 130s.
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Could be a misprint, I don't know.
I did read about the 128i and 135i but that was in an American publication.
What I quoted above was from a well known UK magazines website (don't know if I can put the name in here but it was What something-or-other? I'm sure you can figure it out from there).
The badges were introduced originally to reflect the hardware but now they are only name substitues. Mercedes are also at it with the 320CDi reduced to three litres. People may be getting more powerful engines with better fuel economy but they don't want to be seen in a new 300CDi when next door has an older 320CDi. That would look like they couldn't afford the bigger engined model. People are strange !
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I remember that in the 1990s Land Rover was so impressed with the still to be launched first BMW diesel that it replaced its own TDI unit with it (after altering the torque characteristics in conjunction with BMW engineers).
That in turn led to BMW, keen to gather 4x4 technology, buying up Rover for £720m, a price it would have been happy to pay for Land Rover alone at the time.
The rest, of course, is well documented.....:-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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For what it's worth I remember reading in a weekend paper that the twin turbo 2.0d in the 1 series is to be badged 123d.
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I would also like to offer my support for the Volvo D5 in my V50 - not the full deal (only 350NM) but the combination with the Geartronic is really very impressive. I've no experieince of another diesel/auto combination that is much better if this isn't the best (in this type of car that is).
However it deefinitiely has good days and bad days - I think it must have something to do with the regeneration of the particulate filter? Is there any way of telling for sure when it's regenerating? 70 - 100 in fourth is deeply impressive (on the Autobahn of course).
Previous diesel waws a 320d - like the rest of the car it does it's job very well but is emotionally sterile.
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It will be one of three engines available in the 1 Series coupe at launch - and two of them are diesels a sign of the increasing emphasis on environmental concerns even with stylish performance-oriented cars. With an output of 306bhp it turns the 1 Series into a flyer - 0-62mph in 5.3 seconds and a restricted top speed of 155mph.
Two contradictory points in the same mesage - if they really had environmental concerns they would be fitting a 1.5TD with 100 bhp - they are really catering for the "Sod the future, I have lots of money and I want to burn as much oil as I can before it runs out " brigade.
May be nice engines but too expensive for my pocket!
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I wonder what the real mpg/lpk figures are for all the rapid acceleration/ top speeds are? O-60 in 6.1 - would you get 5 mpg? It's been years since I would have been able to test my 0-60 speed without hitting someone in front of me.
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I've never owned a diesel and I must admit that until recent years I have really been unimpressed by them - especially the tractor noises.
Anyway, I'm just in the process of buying a used 530d (I think it's a bit leggy at 88K, but I'm told that's ok - time will tell, I suppose). I found it really wonderful to drive. Plenty of power and bags of torque - I loved it. And the trip computer seems unmoving at 42.8 mpg. That'll do for me I think!
Best diesel engine? What do I know? But I reckon it must be up there with the contenders, though.
Just hope I've made the right choice - but this is no time for cold feet!
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Two contradictory points in the same mesage - if they really had environmental concerns they would be fitting a 1.5TD with 100 bhp - they are really catering for the "Sod the future I have lots of money and I want to burn as much oil as I can before it runs out " brigade.
They have a 2 litre diesel developing not much C02 for the tweed hat and silly sandels environment brigade to buy - the 135i is for those of us who don't fall for the latest excuse to tax everything like you've never taxed it before.
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I think this thread should have read "which diesel would you not recommend"! I'm now at 108,000 km's in my Volvo D5 185 Bhp Manual 6 speed. Not one single problem since new, rather expensive servicing and will be out of guarantee in a couple of months. Average fuel consumtion 6.5 l/100 which means 950 km's on a full tank when the orange light comes on. I find it really slow from 1st to second gear (mostly due to traction control?) and then takes off in 3rd and 4th at incredible speed.The engine growl is really something. Power delivery means alot of body movement though(luckily the Volvo headrests are there to cushion your head everytime you change gear) and you are constantly remined that this is not a sportscar! Motorway cruising is delight at 130 km/h (French motorways). I regret not having waited for the Autobox and having tried the 163 Bhp in auto -I would say it's a nicer drive then the 185! The 185 is a little brutal and the front wheels can't cope with sudden power delivery and the don't forget the extra cost. Tyre wear is fine with Continental tryes. Handling is still not as good as my old 2.0 130 Bhp Mondeo- which was a fine car that always gave around 5.0 l/100! Remember that the D5 is not a chain cambelt and fitting a new one is very expensive: same as Audi 3.0 Tdi and 2.0Tdi and others. Mondeo and 3 series engines are chain cambelt. This really is an issue if you are buying a high mileage second hand diesel.
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