Not necessarily. Just because there was no oil showing on the dipstick doesn't mean there was literally none in the sump. You might conceivably have been lucky.
I'd try mending the crack with JP Weld, and then refilling. Then you will be able to judge whether the noise has gone away, and also the state of the oil pressure by observing how quickly the oil light goes out, and whether it comes on at tickover. Obviously if it passes the test, get a scrap sump or have it welded up.
Silly question - doesn't your wife understand the meaning and purpose of the various warning lights on the dashboard? Or didn't the oil light come on, in which case you definitely might be lucky.
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Cliff has the idea. His product, Chemical Metal or Tank Sealer. Remove all oil residue from the damaged area before repairing, let it cure and re-fill engine with oil. You could be lucky but whatever happens you will have found the answer in 20 mins with a £5 tube of gunk.
David
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I'm sorry. The repair answers = recipe for future disaster.
You MAY be lucky.. if not it's a new engine job. How much is it worth? How much is fitting a new engine.
Do you need reliability..?
Will your wife do the same again? If yes with a mended sump, then your engine will definitely lose all its oil -- faster this time.
Mend it. Sell it. Sleep safely.. Or your wife may be stranded in a forest and require a (very expoensive) tow....
madf
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Have you considered keeping the car, and selling the wife - probably cheaper in the long run. ;>)
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My thinking is, how fast was the oil draining out, how long did the engine run while the oil pick up was still in oil, so how long, if at all, was the engine actually running with no oil circulating?
We don't know, but £5 might just help to answer the question before you decide what to do next.
The engine is not a total wreck, with clattering bearings, ripped cylinder bores and melted pistons. It was making a ticking noise, probably because the valves were beginning to suffer a loss of lubrication. It MAY be that on refilling you find it runs all right. If the oil pressure is still good, then the bearings are probably all right. If it pulls well then the bores are probably not badly worn, likewise if it doesn't smoke.
All these things can be examined once you patch up the hole and try it.
Of course, you may indeed find it is iretrivably damaged. But I wouldn't condemn it without even trying.
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I am with MM and Cliff. Quick bodge and fill with oil. See how it sounds, temperature, feels etc.
If it seems ok go for a permanet fix to the sump, with an oil change change and filter. There is a chance that not al the oil was lost, and most drained out while standing at your place.
Then either keep the car or sell it while it still sounds ok.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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consider a claim on your car insurance
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Ditto TVM
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thankyou for all the replies guys!!!
i cant quite beleive it but i filled the engine up with fresh oil and it drives and sounds/feels good as it did superbly no overheating power the same etc.
the problem i have now is what can i seal the crack in the sump with...is there a product that does this...as to replace the sump on an 850 requires dropping the whole subframe
what ive done overnight is jack the car up on axle stands with an oil pan underneath to catch the fresh oil to use when i fix the crack.
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i can find chemical metal on ebay , tank sealer seems to be for petrol tanks, but jp weld dosent bring up any search results on google??. any ideas
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you need" jb weld fast"
a proper factor or even halfords sell it
the most important thing is that the crack must be scrupulous clean of oil which is difficult if you cant get the sump off
1-----drain oil
2---have the car so that the hole is the opposite end to where any drips of oil will linger ,you will need it well jacked up for this
3------clean area very clean with brake cleaner in a squirty can followed up by clean thinners on a clean cloth
4---consider making hole bigger to facilitate the jb weld to get a grip
5----mix up the 2 parts and apply,make sure the area is bigger covered is bigger than the hole
6------irrespective of what you are told,leave this repair for 24 hours,ideally in your garage where it is warmer,( seeing as i am flooded out here on a june day)
7-----fill back up with new oil, run up the engine to operating temp,if ok take for a drive,
8--check weekly for weeps
to be honest you really need sump off but i have repaired sumps in this way before now and seen that if job done right, it is still holding 2 years later
you were very lucky that engine ok
jb weld fast is about £8 retail by the way
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thats great, thanks very much all you guys, i considered claiming on insurance for about...oooh 2 seconds before i realised my excess is £300 anyway!!.
ive jacked the car right up to catch the oil overnight, tommorow morning ill drain the rest via the sump plug and let it drain for a few hours, ive got some caustic soda to clean the grease/oil from the sump casing.
then ill visit halfords/motor facotrs for the jb weld and apply as you described....however upon closer examination of the sump it seems it is a hairline crack about 2 inches long and not as wide as i first thought so hopefully the jb weld will get a grip on it to set...ill make sure i leave it a full day to set properly then refill and test
if it works ill probably check the oil level everyday paranoidly for weeks anyway just to make sure :¬)
as for the wife...it makes a change for her to be sheepish and in the dog house for a change and not me :¬)
ohh forgot to mention she also ripped the front lip spoiler off aswell to boot :¬(
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do buy a tin of brake cleaner and use it all,its the best thing you will do (wear goggles)
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would gunk be better than brake cleaner at de-greasing the sump casing do you think??
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no
gunk will leave a residue thats why i said brake cleaner then cellulose thinners
it has to be scrupoulous clean or the oil WILL seep out
the finish is in the preparation
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bb is a treasure and a privilege, no kidding. Listen to him.
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ok ive got my shopping list for tommorrow now, thanks again for youre help guys!!!!!!
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What about a specialist welder?
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Well, you have done the cheap experiment, and wasn't it worthwhile?! Aren't you glad you didn't listen to the pessimists?
The difficulty with getting a perfect long-term seal will be cleaning the crack, and it won't be helped if residual oil can keep on seeping through from inside the sump.
I don't know whether there is such a thing as specialist welding in these circumstances, but failing that, I would in your position:
1) do the best I can with JB Weld (Halfords)
2) check that the oil level light (does it have one?) works, and in any case get into the habit of watching the oil pressure light and temperatute gauge and glancing under the sump.
3) if continued road use confirms that no damage has been done, do some research into what is really involved in getting the sump off. On my 240 for example, the book says the subframe and brake pipes have to be dropped to get clearance. But that is not true. If the engine is hoisted about 3" there is space to drop the sump. Ask the question at the Volvo Owners Forum.
Best of luck.
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How much to replace the sump cover? Surely a better solution than running the risk of total oil loss, by a bodge.
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well.....oil is now drained i flushed it first and strained the flushed oil through a pair of old tights (yes i know) i found no particles of metal on the mesh tights/filter so hopefully that is good??
im leaving it drain all day before i even begin to clean the sump and attempt the jb weld to make sure no oil can seep through to ruin the repair.
from what i can see there are 2 1-2" hairline cracks which need filled/sealed
in response to the chap with the 240 above, yes i have also found out that jacking the engine up a few inches alows removal of the sump easier , so i guess when funds allow my next mission is to source a 2nd hand or new sump to fit for peace of mind.
the front splitter i have taken off and is scrapped but im not to bothered about that as its only a cosmetic add on they fitted to the t5-r's anyway so now it just looks like any other 850 front end.
ill keep you all posted and thanks so much once again for youre help...were not a rich family and really need to keep the old girl running on a pretty tight budget...so double thanks guys!!!!!!.
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can you disconnect the engine mounts & jack up the engine enough to clear the sub frame? im not fimiliar with your engine but have done this with others & it works a bit fiddly!! good luck.
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bigtee...yes ill have to look into that...jacking the engine up on its mounts wouldnt do the mounts much good stress wise so that may be the best plan of action....ill consider the options and have a think...i tell you what though...haynes manuals arent what they used to be....the one for the 850 is absolute rubbish!!!...youd think with the advent of internet car forums like this they would get theyre act together and make proper workshop style manuals like they used to.
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can you disconnect the engine mounts & jack up the engine enough to clear the sub frame? im not fimiliar with your engine but have done this with others & it works a bit fiddly!! good luck.
I'm not familiar with the model either, which is why I suggested a question on the Volvo Owners Club forum. www.volvoforums.org.uk/
But most definitely release the mountings first, and possibly anything else that will strain - top radiator hose, etc?
On the 240 I released the mountings, jacked up the engine as high as possible, and then slung the engine on chains from a baulk of wood across the wings (padded with blankets). Then I could lower the jack out of the way for proper access. But check to see whether anyone else has done it - there may be special tricks needed like rotating to clear the oil pump.
All good research while you keep test-driving it with the temporary repair.
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