Just look at the 100+ post threads in this forum on problems with Renault diesels. Admittedly not the 1.5 but still Renault and still common rail SFAIK.
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Just look at the 100+ post threads in this forum on problems with Renault diesels. Admittedly not the 1.5 but still Renault and still common rail SFAIK.
I think that's perhaps a little misleading, as you're including replies in that total. The actual problem count is a tenth of that, and only a handful of those are 2004-on engines which had a lot of mods (EGR valve, ECU, turbo oil feed) to solve the problems on the early engines.
When all's said and done though, you take a risk with any car, and my research leads me to believe these later Renault units are no better or worse than any other. Peugeot's first gen HDi's weren't very reliable, and neither were Ford's original TDCi's or even BMW's early common rails (turbo failures common on early 3 series diesels, for example), but most would recommend any of these in their current versions now. All new technology has its problems.
My view is these 2004/2005 Renault units are probably the best of the bunch as they have the "fixes" for the early problems, but don't yet have the problematic FAP system.
That said, I still wouldn't swap a C-MAX for a Scenic. A Grand Scenic maybe (you'll gain acres of boot space), but it's hard to see what you're going to gain out of it. It's not like one is light years ahead of the other.
Cheers
DP
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swap a ford for a renault and give the dealer money
it must be sunny june already :-o
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(1) Opinions on the scenic versus c-max?
Scenic charming and well equipped though not in this spec, C-Max much better to drive and comparing the two engines you mention warp factors faster and probably as economical because it is working less hard.
(2) Opinions on the reliability of the Scenic?
Probably not as good as the C-Max though a good car.
(3) Opinions on the cost to change?
Not a good deal.
How much do you want for the C-Max? Is it one owner? what colour is it? is it full Ford dealer service history? what did the dealer offer?
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Whoopwhoop, if the reason you are changing the C Max is due to noises and rattles, don't go for the Scenic. I have one and that is one of my bugbears and probably one of the reasons I am getting rid of it.
As a family car it is great, spacious, lots of glass as TVM says but I wouldn't put it up in the high interior quality region.
Also, my car is the 120bhp diesel, I wouldn't want to be driving it with a 1.5 diesel.
I think spec wise, if its the Zetec you have then it will be better spec than the Scenic so your missus may feel she has "downgraded".
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C-Max much better to drive
It's a lot closer than you'd think actually. The C-Max's big problem is it has hideous electric power steering (like the Renault) which robs its brilliant Focus underpinnings of one of their big strengths - feel. The Scenic is softer and rolls a bit more, but has surprising grip, and is not as understeery as I thought it would be. Neither car has enough feel to be particularly enjoyable to drive hard, and the main difference I noticed was in the spring rates and levels of body roll. Scenic rides better but rolls more, C-Max choppier over bumps but rolls less. Good as it is, the C-Max really isn't in the same dynamic league as the Focus hatch.
But jeez, does it go with the PSA 2.0 TDCi in it! Would leave my 1.9 dCi Scenic standing, never mind the 1.5. If that engine only produces 136 PS, I'm a banana! :-)
Cheers
DP
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But jeez does it go with the PSA 2.0 TDCi in it! Would leave my 1.9 dCi Scenic standing never mind the 1.5. If that engine only produces 136 PS I'm a banana! :-)
Superchips rate a DCi 120 as 123 bhp however as with the Mondeo 130 where the tuning companies quote them as 148 ish bhp as standard the Ford/PSA unit seems to be conservatively quoted by the manufacturers, the following shows Superchips rate a std Focus 2.0 TDCi as 152 BHP.
www.superchips.co.uk/curves/Focus20tdci136.pdf
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DP .. does the CMax not have the adjustable assistance power steering like my 06 Focus ? You can set it to Sport Mode for more feel, standard, or light (with plenty of assistance for parking).
Curious because I would have thought it would have this ( I know it depends on which engine you have ... I have the 2.0 TDCi ) . Never driven a CMax but intrigued you state it lacks steering feel.
Neil
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DP .. does the CMax not have the adjustable assistance power steering like my 06 Focus ? You can set it to Sport Mode for more feel standard or light (with plenty of assistance for parking).
Ah, not sure to be honest. This was a fairly brief test drive at a Ford dealer (2.0 TDCi Zetec model on an 05 plate). The steering was quite well weighted to be fair (as is the Renault's), but just had a slightly artificial, rubbery feel to it compared to the traditional PAS systems on the slightly older Fords I'm used to. I don't claim to understand the technical reasons as to why this should be the case, but it seems common to electric PAS systems.
Maybe if my two old Fords weren't so good, and the memories of my old company Focus mk1 still so fresh, I wouldn't have noticed. Interestingly though, I recently discovered that when BMW were designing the M version of the Z4, they ended up ditching the standard Z4's electric system in favour of an "old fashioned" belt driven pump set up because they couldn't get the feel right.
Cheers
DP
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PS - We'd already dismissed it because the boot was too small, but I wanted to drive it anyway. :-)
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How much do you want for the C-Max?
Thinking of advertising privately for £9,200
Is it one owner?
Second owner. First owner lives round the corner - He buys a new car from the dealership round the other corner every 12-18 months!
what colour is it?
Metallic light blue
is it full Ford dealer service history?
Yes - main Ford dealer
what did the dealer offer?
£8,600
Why? Are you interested?
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Thought I might be, I like the C-Max though, wife wants seven seats, I guess if you were local I might take a look.
Also just to say Motorpoint have 56 plate 12,000 milers for £10,699, nearer £10k once a deal is done.
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Thought I might be I like the C-Max though wife wants seven seats I guess if you were local I might take a look. Also just to say Motorpoint have 56 plate 12 000 milers for £10 699 nearer £10k once a deal is done.
Wow! £10k for a 56 with 12000m - I'd bite their arm off... Parkers is valuing that at £12,100 from an independant dealer.
Parkers valuation for mine :
Ford Focus C-MAX (03 on)
2.0 TDCi Zetec 5d 2004/54
Average mileage 20,000 miles
Original Price £17,222
Franchised Dealer £10,235
Independent Dealer £9,750
Private Good £8,695
Private Poor £7,230
Part Exchange £7,880
so on that basis would settle for £8,695 after haggling and tyre kicking etc.
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The C-Max does have three different steering settings. The normal mode is fine for me, and gives a good feel. I haven't tried the comfort setting, but the sport was too heavy, so I've stayed with normal.
The steering seems much more precise and responsive than my previous car, a Citroen Xsara Estate.
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Wouldn't have a Renault Scenic again if you paid me. First one old shape fine 130 k no problems. Current one Turbo problem (yes it's a 1.9) power steering (twice) air con (loads of problems) and all from a 54 plate car with 30k on the clock
Renault have twice said we must be abusing the car ? and the conversation with the sales manager went like this on my last visit. "well we won't be buying another Renault again - I also run a Laguna - to which he replies - well if you don't Renault Uk won't notice as they just will have to pre-reg one more - Attitude that says it all
So we now have an Seat Altea which is just a much better car. Wife happy wallet happy.
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Doesn't make financial sense to me but if you want a Scenic:
The 1.9 (or if you can afford it the 2.0) is the best diesel engine in the Scenic. 1.5 will struggle.
Change the oil at 9K and only use the specified synthetic.
Check all the electrical toys work - and there are quite a few.
Use Kumho rather than Continental tyres if running on 17 inch wheels.
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I had a C-Max 1.6 diesel for a couple of weeks last year and set the steering to Sport, it was nicely weighted and responsive.
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