in 2 minds at the moment onto that to do ..
in the last few posts i indicated that I bought a Xsara HDI and got stiched up big time with the probs etc.,... I have decided to sell it before its going to cost me even more to fix etc...
My dad has a Rover 420 V reg 2.0, its areal shame to sell it when he gets his merc eventually since he paid 13k for it when new. Onl;y done 50k and I know the car cos i have done most of the work on it.
I can either LPG it, or now find myself a cheap diesel (sub 1k) with a bosch pump (i.e. 306, 106 etc...) and run a 50/50 mix or even look into waste cooking oil as my dad runs a restaurant anyway (i know oil needs to be treated before going into the tank).
If I choose the diesel option, I would like minimal conversion, single tank only.. But my driving styles is like this... I do about 400 miles a week, mostly short journey, not sure if the veggie oil is a good option for it....
But the LPG option will cost about the same, conversion i have been quoting about 1k, if its the same consumption, then I will be looking at 7p / mile on a rover 420 or similar for a diesel...
Can someone shed some light??
Thanks
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obvious answer is a cheap peugeot/citroen diesel. get one with a bosch pump and it will happily run 50/50 mix with veg oil with nothing else required just pour it in the diesel. i did this for around 2 years with a 306 before i got my audi and never had a problem, i used to run it as such, 3 full tanks 50/50 mix then the fourth full tank just diesel with injector cleaner added and i never had problems running it all year round. i was buying the veg oil wholesale at £11 for 25 litres so at the time it was roughly half the price of diesel and i may not have declared it to hm customs but that is a choice you make.
i do around 30k a year so roughly i saved £1100 a year which over the 2 years paid for the purchase of the car and all it's running costs inc. tax and insurance. im not saying tax evasion is right but i feel if you were caught and fined it would be less than the savings made, that seems to be the way with our fining system just look at road tax fines, but at the end of the day you know the risks and you make your own decision accordingly
chris
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Thats what I thought as I am worried about the reliabilty on LPG (sorry I just do not know anything about it)
But, all those 306s and 106s most have the lucas pump and its very hard to find one with a bosch pump, can I just get a second hand bosch pump and replace it ??? (providing the same engine etc..)?
thanks
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lpg is down to the quality of the installation as with most things of that type, the kits are very good quality and more than reliable, but if your going to go for lpg id recommend a holiday to poland and get it done there as it will still be considerably cheaper than the uk.
there are loads of 306's around with bosch pumps ive had 5 306's of which 2 were lucas the rest bosch and that was without double checking before viewing.
yes you could fit a bosch pump, you'd need the pump, matching injectors a dial test indicator and some patience, and while your there you may aswell replace the cambelt tensioners etc. as the belt has to be removed, in short just look around for a bosch engined model there's no shortage of them, and id gice the 106 a miss personallyas the diesel engine in them isn't that good imo and personally i find them to small
chris
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Not many LPG outlets, but plenty of cheap vegetable oil in the event of an emergency from Tesco, Morrison's, Aldi, Lidl etc...:-)
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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I can either LPG it or now find myself a cheap diesel (sub 1k) with a bosch pump (i.e. 306 106 etc...) and run a 50/50 mix ....
Isn't using cooking oil illegal, and aren't you concerned about doing that?
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L\'escargot.
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Lpg: cost of conversion, who fixes it if it breaks - garage or lpg repairer?- limited range, lack of stations.
Veg: ease of conversion (none), excellent range, ease(ish) of oil stocks although you will get funny looks in Tesco with 20 litres of veg Costco good source for 25ltr drums. Disadvantages, the stink, mess down your car and drive as its very sticky, and being caught. Its HMCE who will be coming down on you like a tonne of bricks not plod, yikes! Chances of being caught - tiny. Bosch pump will run fine with 50:50 mix and car will run smoother.
I have run both. I would say my Passat tdi and ZX D were very sucessful on veg. LPG less and took fuggin ages to fill each time! And it makes your hands stink of eggs.
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Its HMCE who will be coming down on you like a tonne of bricks not plod, yikes! Chances of being caught - tiny.
What about your conscience?
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L\'escargot.
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" i feel if you were caught and fined it would be less than the savings made, that seems to be the way with our fining system just look at road tax fines"
Not quite so. You're conning customs here, who have more power to destroy your wellbeing than any other agency. If you're stopped and your tank is dipped, believe me, they will know if you're running (or have recently been running) on vegoil.
Then the fine is calculated as: How many miles had the vehicle done from new? What's its worst possible fuel consumption? Taking those two figures, what's the duty on the fuel it will have used in its lifetime?
Then, it's up to you to reduce that fine with a bit of proof, like proof of the mileage when you bought it and proof of the amount of properly taxed diesel you've bought - you'll need a fistful of receipts there.
This is the same process, by the way, as is thrown ast you for using red diesel on the road.
You really, really don't need to get caught doing this.
V
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HMCE also have the powers to seize and crush the vehicle. Not a pretty sight.
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conscience not a problem we pay enough tax so i can't say i feel bad. it's not illegal as long as you regster with customs.
as for the dipping scenario ive seen this before, run on oil, once a month buy a few litres of proper biodiesel from a forecourt, keep the receipt if stopped produce said receipt, now have customs try and prove that whats in your tank isn't the stuff you legally bought? and the major point they have to prove it not you prove your innocent. and i still think the fine will be little against the savings made and as said the chances of beeing stopped are small and can easily be reduced by the way you drive.
and with regards to the smell, i don't mind it and i find i make very little mess, i just use a decent large funnel and pour it slowly in takes about 5 minutes to do then i drive to petrol station and top up with diesel. ive also ran a bosch pump on 100% oil during the summer and it was fine not sure how it would be though in the colder winter which is why i settled on 50/50.
chris
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conscience not a problem .......... it's not illegal as long as you regster with customs.
And have you?
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L\'escargot.
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my original reply says i may have not been honest and over 2 years i was fine, and that included getting stopped at a vosa check point but now im back running petrol cars again so obviously don't do it, as to the OP it's his choice if he so wishes to not inform customs
vhris
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i may have not been honest .........
"may have not"?!!
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L\'escargot.
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"conscience not a problem we pay enough tax so i can't say i feel bad"
Is road tax optional for you too? Do you think it OK for opt our of the taxation system when you feel you have paid enough.
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There is talk of the Government relaxing taxation for "fuel producers" who produce under a certain amount of fuel per year. People who pour veggie oil in to their tanks are classed as fuel producers and have to pay around 27p/litre if they register with HMCE. This is worth bearing in mind because it is likely pouring veggie oil in without paying tax will be legal soon. Also, if you decide to register, it still works out a bit cheaper.
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to date ive paid 4 lots of road tax this year so no i don't feel exempt from it. as for the issue of not paying tax on a green fuel im sure im booked on a one way trip to hell for my sins, and everyone else lives a perfect life of not doing wrong
chris
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