No you have got it in one.
I couldn't have put it better myself.
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L\'escargot.
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Blimey - 2 responses this early on a Saturday? You either are sciving off work or, like me, have early rising children!
Thanks for the clarification guys.
I'm sure, quite rightly, that someone else will be along to say that the driving experience of a diesel is different/better etc.
Cheers!
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Top Turkey - the fastest hands in Brum
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Blimey - 2 responses this early on a Saturday? You either are sciving off work or like me have early rising children!
Neither. The older you get the less sleep you need, and you just can't wait to get up and start another day. Life is for living.
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L\'escargot.
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You have to take a gamble on a much cheaper diesel, such as a Peugeot/Citroen for about £1,000 to make sensible savings on lower annual mileages. Even then, you could have bought the equivalent petrol model for £300-£500 less, but you should get a payback during year 2.
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There are a lot of ingredients in the pot when you're comparing petrols and diesels.
Fuel consumption
Towing
Torque
Acceleration
Overtaking speed
Price
Resale value
Service interval
Service cost
RFL band
Maintenance costs
etc
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The diesel will still be worth more and more sort after when you come to sell it.
Previous car was a Volvo 740 estate paid £400 acheived 24MPG (the fuel gauge was broken so I'd do 250ish miles and brim the tank) on a regular basis, current car Golf TDi estate, paid £2700 3 and a bit years ago, filled up yesterday 49litres and travelled 593 miles, so low fifties is the name of the game and the cars still worth around £1300.
Buy a good late 90s (pre common rail) diesel and if you buy a good one you can't go wrong.
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However, to do the calcs properly you have to include the cost of the additional purchase price, as even if you get some of it back on selling the car, that money has still been tied up for the period of ownership.
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I would be very wary of falling into the trap of assuming a car is going to be worth "X" in 3 years' time anyway -- these back-of-a-fag-packet calculations rarely work out as you expect them to, and as a result I'd be more inclined to take the cheaper car as then you know you *won't* be spending that money you *think* you might get back on the diesel, as you won't have spent it in the first place.
Unless you are doing serious miles, the diesel option is *never* better on cost alone in my experience. Even if you do save on fuel, and you do get some cash back, do you really want to spend £1500 on a 10-year-old car? As Dox says that is the only time the cost savings become apparent, but the idea that a £500 car becomes a £1500 car just because it does a few more miles to the gallon I find ever so slightly absurd. And at your price level, you're looking at the CR diesels in the main which I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.
Buy because you like the drive, fine, but don't buy diesel because you think you'll save a few quid -- won't happen.
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It would have cost me over £5000 extra to buy the diesel version of my 407 coupe. I travel around 8-9000 miles a year. You do the maths...I drive the 2.2 petrol.
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It would have cost me over £5000 extra to buy the diesel version of my 407 coupe. I travel around 8-9000 miles a year. You do the maths...I drive the 2.2 petrol.
Comparing the 2.7 twin turbo V6 and the 2.2 petrol is not really like for like, that being said the 2.7 would hold its value well and be more economical.
I have done nearly 120,000 miles in my TDCi over 5 years, in which time it has saved me around £4000 in fuel costs compared with say a 2.0 petrol and perhaps £5000 over the 6cyl I drove before.
You do the maths ........
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I have driven petrol version of the C5 and, compared with our 2.2 HDI automatic, the most noticeable difference, is what they are like at motorway speeds. The HDI is much more relaxed and quieter. More overtaking oomph too.
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For anyone who only covers an average annual mileage it's not worth it. We've had this debate several times before, and as a 10k-a-year driver, petrol suits me fine. I like the non-agricultural engine-note, the relative simplicity of the engines, and the fact that they're cheaper and often available at good discounts because nobody else can do the maths! I buy a car to keep till it goes bang, so depreciation isn't a problem but repair bills on an out-of-warranty car are.
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I switched from a 1.25 Petrol to a 1.9TD, annual milage about 12-15,000 a year. It's about the same in terms of cost. The road tax is dearer but the fuel economy is better. Performance about the same. I am sure it levels out.
There is talk however of the Government not taxing fuel producers for producing under a certain number of litres a year, C&E have confirmed there will be an announcement soon. If so then this will be great for me, I can just pour veggie oil straight in at 56p/litre, as the engine/injection pump is good for it. The saving will be big then. I could do that right now but it wouldn't be legal as I'm not registered.
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Why do people quote annual mileage when discussing the economics of running a diesel? Surely the figure should be the miles you do in the car while it is in your possession. Whether you do 70000 in 2 years or 6 makes no difference to the calculations.
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I saved about £3000 buying the 3 litre petrol model instead of the 3 litre diesel model. It will take years for the savings to have come through with a diesel, I don't care about the resale value, and the petrol one makes a good noise.
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And you don't look as though you've elected a new pope every time you put your foot down ;-)
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And you don't look as though you've elected a new pope every time you put your foot down ;-)
I am a new pope every time I put my foot down.
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I don't care about the resale value and the petrol one makes a goodnoise.
So whats the point of contributing to this thread?
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I don't care about the resale value and the petrol one makes a good >> noise. >> So whats the point of contributing to this thread?
To express my opinion on the merits of saving yourself a big pile of cash and not falling for the 'diesel = cheap' line.
What was your point?
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{SNIP - why quote everything to which you're replying to, when "in reply to xxx" or quoting just a small part of the message is so much tidier? - DD}
What was your point?
I made my point above, it was about the viability of a diesel, what was yours about? Saving cash by buying a large engined petrol car because it makes a nice noise and has little resale value, you've convinced me and I'm going to ring the Trader first thing on Tuesday to rid ourselves of two diesel money pits. V8s are the way to go for economical motoring..................Vrm, vrm, screech, vrm
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I saved about £3000 buying the 3 litre petrol model instead of the 3 litre diesel model. It will take years for the savings to have come through with a diesel I don't care about the resale value and the petrol one makes a good noise.
Yes, that engine noise is sooooo worth it, absoloutely fabulous, and blows a diesel clean out of the water :-)
What sort of mileage do you get from the 530i then?
Blue
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What sort of mileage do you get from the 530i then?
It's actually nothing short of staggering for the sort of car it is - a long motorway trip with the cruise set to an indicated 75mph, 70mph true speed on the GPS will return over 37mpg and equates to a tank range of almost 600 miles. In more day to day non-town driving, I see an average of about 32mpg, but drive it short trips around town and it's predictably rubbish at 20-22mpg.
Thrap it down some tasty A/B roads, and you'll see around 25mpg.
FWIW it would appear our 530d returns approximately 5-8mpg more average per given situation when compared with the 530i.
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miles. In more day to day non-town driving I see an average of about 32mpg but drive it short trips around town and it's predictably rubbish at 20-22mpg.
I have a feeling that I would see mileage like that, I got 24mpg from my 323, most of my driving is twisty roads and city streets, so I really hammer the fuel tank!
Blue
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Why do people quote annual mileage when discussing the economics of running a diesel? Surely the figure should be the miles you do in the car while it is in your possession.
Nitpick of the Year?
I stated annual mileage because I can work the cost out for that, then multiply it by how many years I intend to keep the car.
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Whether you do 70000 in 2 years or 6 makes no difference to the calculations.
Why not? One's still covering more distance than the other in a given timeframe. If the mileage I covered meant I wouldn't see a return on the premium I'd paid to buy a diesel until it was 5 years old, but I'd sold it after 3 years, it wouldn't be worth it. If however I covered sufficient miles during my 3 year ownership to offset the additional cost, it would be worth it. Obviously once you factor in residual values the mileage I need to cover is less as a diesel will sell on for more. Not a difficult concept to grasp surely.
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I would not buy another petrol car as my driving lifestyle (short journeys) kills petrol engines.. as both my wife and I have proved over a lifetime:-)
madf
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