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Ah, Mankchester. That makes sense. I would want lots of bonuses for working in Mankchester.
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and dont use the offending tyre as a spare cause thats 3 points also
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didn't think you could get points for a dodgy spare?
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news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6656411.stm
All public serivces are now target driven and whilst the front line staff won't see any pay packet bonus, those in the higher jobs will as performance related bonus is now a common element of Chief Exec/Chief Constable/Directors pay.
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All public serivces are now target driven and whilst the front line staff won't see any pay packet bonus those in the higher jobs will as performance related bonus is now a common element of Chief Exec/Chief Constable/Directors pay.
My BIL is a health service manager and gets huge bonuses (on top of a fantastic salary and benefit package), but of course Nurses don't.
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Martin. Consider putting the car through an MOT and send it to the chief constable with a harsh letter regarding the FPN. The threat of nine penalty points is, I assume, as they think 3 tyres are defective. I think you need to fight this NOW. Regards Peter
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if you go down the MOT route and it passes, why not then go to the police station and take pictures when they are present so that they can see the state of the tyres and your son can go on his way because if it goes to court I presume that the date will be some way off.
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"Are tyres soft targets for police FPNs?"
Well, surely only if they are under-inflated!?
But seriously, the problem with going to Magistrates Court (as midlifecrisis rightly recommends) is that you won't be able to use the tyres in the meantime, and as you don't know which ones the FPN are refering to, you would have to stop using all 4. Which means, presumably buying 4 more tyres anyway, and so the only thing you will possibly gain by going to Court is your son's clean licence.
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All public serivces are now target driven and whilst the front line staff won't see any pay packet bonus those in the higher jobs will as performance related bonus is now a common element of Chief Exec/Chief Constable/Directors pay.
Working in the motor industry, I can tell you that most private sector employees are 'target driven'. In fact if you go into the retail motor industry then its totally target driven (ask your local dealer about KPI's - Key Performance Indicators and 'composite reports'). Its up to the individual to make sensible and rational decisions - particularly a police officer. Using the excuse that its the fault of targets is rather pathetic - the individual copper should use his brain and a bit of common sense. Can't remember when I last heard of a copper getting the sack for being ineffective - one of the last bastions of the 'job for life'.
I must say the the modern police force really worries me. There was recently a public meeting in my village about local crime levels (mostly low level stuff like petty vandalism and sheds being broken into, with the occassional more major crime). We had an 'area commander' and his flunky turn up. He gave us a slide show which mostly consisted of pictures of smiling coppers shaking hands/chatting with ethnic minority citizens. Talked a lot and said nothing. Didn't exactly bolster confidence.
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Well, I'll shortly be off to sit on my backside and target innocent members of the public for 10 hours! I must enquire about these mystery bonuses, I seem to have missed out on those.
I thought two officers had been stabbed in the last two days and a colleague of mine had been shot dead a week ago...must have imagined that!
Everybody in prison is innocent...apparently!
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Do not drive to the police station, invite the police to attend at the MOT or visit you home for the photo's and inspection with the pass certificate. Go and buy some rims form a scappy and but new tyres to keep the car on the road if he can not do without it. Regards Peter
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Well I'll shortly be off to sit on my backside and target innocent members of the public for 10 hours! I must enquire about these mystery bonuses I seem to have missed out on those.
If it helps, half listening to the Today programme this morning I heard a spokeswomen for a police association complaining that, as her members were now required to meet targets for actually doing something about crime, the poor souls were now unable to resist the temptation to take dodgy actions designed to meet those targets.
Proceedings by the brave boys in blue against a child who threw a slice of cucumber from his sandwich and a man found in possession of an egg that could be used as a missile were quoted as examples of what was being done to meet targets without the hassle of tackling real criminals.
Now, a doctor who took out a few extra tonsils to meet targets would probably be given a slap by the BMA, but according to the representative, it was unfair to require the types we employ as policemen to meet comparable standards of professionalism or honesty. Her members couldn?t be expected to resist the temptation to cheat and it is therefore quite wrong to require them to meet targets - especially on cold mornings when it's nicer to stay in the police canteen.
I don't think there are any bonuses, fortunately. If there were I suspect no one would safe from being nicked.
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While I am aware that this is currently none motoring related, let me put you out of your ignorance.
Said cucumber incident is reported by member of public who states they have 'been assaulted'. Officer attends, discovers circumstances and gives advice. Bean counter/Jobsworth at HQ audits log (as per instructions from Home Office) and finds that no crime report has been submitted. E-mails then sent to all and sundrie that crime needs recording. Supervisor (ie me) e-mails back stating request for crime report is ludicrous and will not happen. Report is then sent to DCI/Supt stating that Division is failing to meet Govt targets re ethical recording and officers are neglecting their duty. E-mail sent to Sgt ordering him to ensure 'assault' is recorded. Once recorded, 'crime' has named suspect and cannot be filed 'undetected'. Officer then has to interview 'suspect' and report accordingly.
In between all this absurdity, the very few front line officers are trying to provide the best service possible and deal with 'proper' crime. Unfortunately, certain sections of society are fully aware of the new 'rules' and love to report being 'assaulted by a cucumber'. After all, it might make the housing association move them nearer their mates.
So before you start casting aspurtions about the integrity of 'boys in blue', I suggest you find out some facts. The 'hassle' is having to deal with ridiculous incidents such as these. It is a great relief to actually get stuck into some 'real' crime.
If you would ever like to observe what the it's like to cover five hundred square miles with five officers, please feel free to give me a shout.
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> While I am aware that this is currently none motoring related, let me put you out of your ignorance.
Ah, but that was not what the police union rep said this morning. She said that incidents such as that were reported so that the individual could meet his crime targets.
How fortunate we are to have you as the actual officer responsible for dealing with the said cucumber sandwich outrage to give us the full facts. You should go far in the police, there's a place for someone like you. I see you have already mastered the police convention for spelling.
I assume your Chief Constable has a sensible reason for employing the said Jobsworth at HQ? Is she his bit of totty?
>If you would ever like to observe what the it's like to cover five hundred square miles with five officers, please feel free to give me a shout.
Is that 500 square miles like London where there are people or somewhere where there are mainly sheep?
> It is a great relief to actually get stuck into some 'real' crime.
Must be. Driving on the wrong side of the road with the blue lights flashing to arrest a wobbly drunk is what it's all about after all. I've noticed the almost uncontrollable excitement for you all. So much so that one of you crashed across the pavement in our High Street hitting an empty pram not long ago.
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flynn: "How fortunate we are to have you as the actual officer responsible for dealing with the said cucumber sandwich outrage to give us the full facts. " - quite clearly he wasn't saying this, he was giving the likely course of events. Deliberate dumb ignorance is not a pretty state of mind.
flynn: "You should go far in the police, there's a place for someone like you. I see you have already mastered the police convention for spelling." - WOW! What a great argument, the misspelling of a word. You've really got him trapped in the vice-like grip of your reasoning with that one.
flynn: "I assume your Chief Constable has a sensible reason for employing the said Jobsworth at HQ? Is she his bit of totty?" hahahahahahahahahahaha! What a witty riposte!
Midlifecrisis,
I'm sorry that you've had to put up with this diatribe. I've had plenty of bad experiences with the Police and plenty of good ones. Sometimes the bad ones stick out, sometimes the good (like the RUC washing and ironing a recovered load of clothing that had been stolen from me nearly a year earlier). I suspect that the Police are like most people: Some good, some bad. I get the feeling that centrally driven targets and common sense are mutually exclusive.
It's interesting that this thread should have some up today, as I was looking only this morning at a website regarding becoming a Special Constable. Unfortunately, this type of thread puts me off the whole notion - the police seem to blame for everything; do I really want to put myself into that firing line?
V
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> hahahahahahahahahahaha! What a witty riposte!
To you it may have appeared so Vin. Bless you.
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"If it helps, half listening to"
If you'd have bothered to fully listen you'd have heard it was the Police Federation (i.e. the Police Union) moaning about what they're forced to do under current Home Office dicates. If you have half an interest in what goes on in the real world read a book called "Wasting Police Time" it will stun you.
One bit that sticks in my mind is the Author - a serving Officer bemoaning the fact that he feels like the only adult in a town full of children....you get the drift.
To the OP, get your son to dispute the ticket if he feels he has a case, keep the tyre under discussion, ideally without putting too many miles on it.
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If you'd have bothered to fully listen you'd have heard it was the Police Federation (i.e. the Police Union) moaning about what they're forced to do under current Home Office dicates. If you have half an interest in what goes on in the real world read a book called "Wasting Police Time" it will stun you.>> One bit that sticks in my mind is the Author - a serving Officer bemoaning the fact that he feels like the only adult in a town full of children....you get the drift.
and it's getting worse.........some of the carp i have to consider authorising cautions for...it's embarrassing.....should never have got anywhere near the Criminal Justice system....but as mlc so correctly pointed out there's not a lot of choice.....i do on occasions follow the old instinct rather than the system, i just have to....and the thanks from the investigating officers shows their hearts aren't in it either (giving someone a temp criminal record for 5 years for the most mind numbingly stupid minor technicality....in reality just to get a 'clear-up')...
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(giving someone a temp criminal record for 5 years for the most mind numbingly stupid minor technicality....in reality just to get a 'clear-up')
Yes, that sounds more like the reason given by the union rep this morning.
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"Well, I'll shortly be off to sit on my backside and target innocent members of the public for 10 hours! I must enquire about these mystery bonuses, I seem to have missed out on those.
I thought two officers had been stabbed in the last two days and a colleague of mine had been shot dead a week ago...must have imagined that!
Everybody in prison is innocent...apparently! "
Well said,
I spent an afternoon in Custody drinking lattes and passing the time of day with a number of criminals (not even alleged :-( ) who'd popped in to admire a couple of Constables !
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Once again, the incompetence of politicians and senior police officers defies belief. The true measure of the effectiveness of a police force/service is prevention, not arrests/cautions. The current bonus system appears to function on the number of arrests/cautions, not how well the peace is kept.
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coming from a background of public sector performance management, its very hard to measure something by it's absence.
If you're chucking huge amounts of someone else's money into a service, you want to make damn sure you know it's doing some good (after all, the taxpayer/Daily Mail are always clamouring for value for money).
For this you need to monitor performance, for which you need targets.
Targets need to be measurable (google SMART for more info).
So what is more measurable?
"this month we prevented 10 crimes that might have happened" or "this month we arrested 10 people"?
It's a rhetorical question: it's the latter.
The Blair government needed to quickly demonstrate real achievements in the public services compared to the outgoing Tories, whilst at the same time get control to tackle perceived weaknesses.
They did this by adopting a target approach.
Was it sucessful?
Well, posts like this would suggest not. I'm sure the NHS can provide far more examples of the target-tail wagging the NHS-dog (but they're probably not motoring related).
However, our government were elected 3 times in a row ffs: it's their train set and they can play with it however they like.
So what's the alternative?
Well,I can't see national politicans putting their career and reputation (dare I say legacy) in the hands of local politicans along wtih 40% of GDP's worth of budget with no ability to monitor/measure what they were doing.
If someone comes up with an idea of how to monitor public sector performance/value for money without targets, please make me your business partner and then patent it!
Ian
Flynn - please forgive the odd typo.
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">its very hard to measure something by it's absence.<"
No it isn't, absence of crime can be measured by a low crime rate. I hope that none of my tax money ever paid for your "public sector performance management" expertise ;-)
">"this month we prevented 10 crimes that might have happened" or "this month we arrested 10 people"?<"
How about "the crime rate this month is 10% less than 12 months ago" ?
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Are tyres soft targets for police FPN's ? Only if they're under-inflated!
--
L\'escargot.
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