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Another delightful error by Local Government, 3000 tickets issued and revoked due to bungling Council Workers. I've driven this stretch of road, the signage is visible enough and it's had its share of fatalities over the years (Including an off-duty Police Officer a couple of years ago), it has become a lot busier of late and an 83 acre industrial/"leisure" park will contribute to increased traffic levels, remember that Gwynedd Council is a member of the "Safety Partnership" that run the camera vans, if they were a member of my partnership I'd have them out on the Golf Course. Highly embarrasing for them. I followed this story in the press and whilst I applaud the "get-out" as I said the signage is totally visible but playing the devil's advocate here shouldn't these 3000 driver's have noticed the signs or where they driving without seeing......IYKWIM. (which I'm guilty of now and again).
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I know this stretch of road well. It runs from the A55 to Bangor , passing sparse housing, (set back on a separate road)
with 2 roundabouts & a cemetry, before a final downhill stretch to the original 30mph zone. The 'wrongly-reduced-to-30' 40mph zone started,
IIRC, near/before a roundabout access to an industrial estate. It was daft & unnecessary imho, to reduce it anyway
- it had few entry/exit points & 2 roundabouts with good vision to most - except maybe, the extra-mural cemetry entrance(!)
The part most people were caught was on a steepish downhill , approaching the 'old' 30mph zone - you had to keep breaking
even on trailing throttle to keep to 30mph. It was a bit sneaky, since even the most law abiding could be caught out if the
camera was calibrated to catch 'offenders' at 34-35-ish. It doesn't surprise me one ioata that the word 'blunder' & 'county council'
appear in the same sentence, but it does surprise me that North wales Police didn't check confirm , apparently, with existing RTO's
when placing their speed cameras. Well done Mr Evans!
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So how does this result fit in with the stance of some backroom members whose mantra is "You were speeding, don't fight it, pay up, shut up and move on". Always worth a fight even if it is only to make the jobsworth's do bit of work for their salaries and inflation linked pensions.
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"except maybe, the extra-mural cemetry entrance(!)"
.......and the bail hostel,Traveller site and farm entrance between the industrial estate and the crematorium. I checked this road out whilst up in North Wales on hols
(sad but true) when this story was doing the rounds, there was a fatal RTC on the roundabout by the Castle a few years ago which led to a campaign by local villagers to reduce the limit. The houses I assume you refer to are at the bottom of the dip and is a large LA housing estate in the County !, in all likelyhood the new industrial estate has tipped the limit issue. As I say I drive without really seeing sometimes. Respect on finding the flaw though !
I think (from what a local friend said) that the van was parked in the lay by at the entrance to the Crmeatorium during its revenu....sorry saftey patrol.
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i don't know the road at all unfortunately....but......does it really need a 30mph limit or is it the case that the odd few who wilfully won't drive properly.....ensure the limit is reduced by well meaning, but misguided people in officialdom, who come to the conclusion 'oh well,reduce the limit, that's bound to be safer'.......
i'm not against 30mph limits, far from it.....but it's a 'right time, right place' issue.... and some are set noticeably too low......
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If you put Llandegai into Locallive you can follow the road north towards Bangor. All the white and orange "road engineering" is pretty visible as are all the buildings referred to, sadly overhead tree canopy covers the road. As to AS' point, its always worth checking the RTO for a bit of road if you get done for speeding, its a defence tactic as old as the hills. Guess that Gwynedd Council will be clued up to it now though !
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Interesting to see how it develops.
Ultimately its not just "Here's your £60 back and we'll tippex your points of your licence"
Some people may have been totted up and banned; loss of livelyhood, anguish and distress etc.. What about raised insurance premiums as a result. Will the Safety Scamera Partnerships conduct the admin to get the premiums back to what they should have been?
Can of worms!!!
--
Fullchat
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"Will the Safety Scamera Partnerships conduct the admin to get the premiums back to what they should have been?"
Will they Buffalo??!! Some action under Human Rights legislation might be possible but it would be expensive, time consuming and possible not to win!
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There could be a very good case for damages in circumstances that Fullchat describe. Depends who was responsible on who gets sued, could be the Council or the Partnership depending on who has responsibility for updating the RTOs. Nice little case that one. No doubt the "Office Non gender specific boy" will bear the brunt. If only these Local Authorities worried as much about detail like this than they do about politically correct drivel. Part of me says well done for getting off with it another part hates the system for failing to do get something so fundamentally wrong !
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Two things alarm me about this thread. Firstly, the level of vitriol aimed at councils and there workers. Why do you all hate them so much? I have never worked for a council, nor do I know anyone who has. I don't like paying my local coucil tax, but I have to say that I have had no problems with the service that they deliver. I have had building work done and the planning and building control were helpful and efficient. When I've complained about dog faeces and litter someone has come out and cleaned it up. Refuse collection has been OK, apart from a blip when it was subcontracted out to a Spanish company. I am not aware of anything 'politically correct' that they do. I just wish they had more teeth in certain areas (e.g. restaurant and take-away hygiene and safety inspections). I can only speak as I find - sorry if that doesn't fit with the 'ideology'.
Secondly, I don't know this piece of road, but how can so many drivers be so lacking observation? There is a speed camera on a main road leading into a town near me. I has been there for several years; there are signs and road markings. Its in a big yellow box. But day after day it seems to be catching drivers (according to the local paper). I can only assume a lot of drivers cruise along in a dream-like state or lack the most basic observational skills. Any driver caught twice by a speed camera should face a mandatory safer-driver course along the lines of the IAM Pass Plus programme.
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Aprillia
I've worked alongside theis Solicitors Aprilla, you'd be shoked at the way that public money is firttered away by some of them........whichever way you read this one this is a LA failiure, the responsible people are paid good money to avoid errors like this. It's not the only one.
Rumour has it that Gwynedd Council spent their entire legal budget one year to challange Marks and Spencer over non-Welsh signage at a new store - a case they lost. Perhaps local BRs will remember this. A great deal of public money is wasted by poor performance in Local Authorities.
Read "Rotten Boroughs" in the back of Private Eye....
I agree wholeheartedly with your second papragraph.
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Aprillia I've worked alongside theis Solicitors Aprilla you'd be shoked at the way that public money is firttered away by some of them........whichever way you read this one this is a LA failiure the responsible people are paid good money to avoid errors like this. It's not the only one.
Frankly, I don't think I would be shocked at how ANY solicitor fritters away money (public or private)!
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Oh Aprilla you're so cross today.
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The houses I assume you refer to are at the bottom of the dip and is a large LA housing estate in the County !
That's where the 'old' 30 limit started, the houses I mean are before the first (soon to be second roundabout - new one for some new dev. up the road towards the A55 just completed) roundabout, before the Penrhyn castle roundabout. The thing about this creeping 30-isation is that once any/all potential accident points are used (esp. this stretch of A5) , there's no reason not to have all non-dual carriageway/M-way at 30mph. OTOH, there are roads on the coastal Anglesey road where I think the NSL & 50mph limit are suicidal - but the LA, despite sensible representations, refuse to lower it.
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Thanks Woodbines - sorry I spotted my error on Local live but lay low(:-0). I agree with the 5025, this is a nightmare road for the following reasons.
1. Loads of people killed and injured on it over the years.
2.In their wisdom the LA/Police have now altered speed limits on it, poorly signed in some places and it means you have to be "heads up" to spot them and "heads down" to monitor your speed, you'r elike a nodding dog !
I know of a number of non-residents who have caravans and second homes up there who are moving elsewhere to holiday.........
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What is this "local Live" that people keep referring to?
I did a Google and nothing came up.
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It's allegedly a better version of Google Earth which is maybe why !
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>>So how does this result fit in with the stance of some backroom members whose mantra >>is "You were speeding, don't fight it, pay up, shut up and move on"
Well I don't consider myself to be one of these 'pay up move on' brigade, but what we should remember that in this particular case the people are only having their convictions cancelled due to a technicality.
I'm sure not one of these drivers drove along that stretch of road thinking, 'well its a posted 30mph limit, there is a speed camera detection van looking at me but I can legally do 40mph because a 1981 Road Traffic Order has never been revoked'.
The way I see it is that this is a get-out technicality akin to what Nick Freeman finds for his clients. Fair enough the drivers affected should thank their lucky stars that they have had some good fortune, but at the end of the day they were to all intents and purposes caught fair and square speeding over the posted limit.
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Simon I have to disagree. They are having the convictions cancelled because they are not guilty, for whatever reason. Nobody has 'got away' with anything! They have committed no offence because the mechanism created and applied to try to prove them guilty was "Not fit for purpose". I will concede that it is a bit like an a Scottish verdict of Not Proven which is otherwise known as "Not guilty but don't do it again" If the authorities had known about the local circumstances and RTOs etc the tickets would have never even been issued in the first place!
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Simon I have to disagree. They are having the convictions cancelled because they are not guilty for whatever reason.
They are guilty of either
Not seeing the signs,
or
willfully disobeying the signs
but probably worse
gross stupidity for not seeing the camera and getting caught.
------------------------------
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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You're right AS, the only rider being that if you see a 30 mph sign tell us what you would do.
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Pugugly - my reply is that I should read every word in the thread so that I know what I am talking about! It is clear from a closer inspection that the people were exceeding speed limit but that the correct mechansim was not in place to enforce the law because the RTO was wrong. Exits stage left in a grovelling manner!
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..Firstly, the level of vitriol aimed at councils and there workers. Why do you all hate them so much? I have never worked for a council, nor do I know anyone who has. I don't like paying my local coucil tax, but I have to say that I have had no problems with the service that they deliver. ....
we should all move to this wonderful utopia where aprilia lives.
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we should all move to this wonderful utopia where aprilia lives.
Sorry for not having any complaints, but that's just the way it is. It is Conservative controlled by the way - that should make you feel a lot better!
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"Sorry for not having any complaints......." Quote from Aprilia
I think I need to lie down for a bit...... ;)
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I think I need to lie down for a bit...... ;)
LOL! If you want to hear me complain then lets talk about banks, mobile phone companies and my phone/cable/internet provider. A special place in hell should be reserved for them! My local council comes a long way down the list.
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