It's not the Satnav that's wrong is it........it's the idiot using it.
If you use some common sense and accept that the satnav can only be as good as the info typed into it, they're fine...
Surely, any driver is going to know roughly what direction they'll be going in, roughly which part of the country they're heading to and roughly, traffic permitting, what time it will take.....if you can't achieve any of those three you're not in the right job driving a coach are you?
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There's been many examples where sat nav with the right destination has taken drivers down inappropriate roads. And even some drivers stupid enough to drive through fords with high water etc.
But this article is clearly misleading. The sat nav actually got the coach to the destination entered. The trip was ruined because the driver thought his destination was at Hampton Court London and not where the palace really is. If I was using sat nav to get there and could not find Hampton Court Palace as a landmark I'd want to look up it's real address, possibly the post code. At that point I'd realise it was in East Molesey.
The driver should obviously have looked at the "planning your visit" page on their website ;-) Or better still looked at a map, worked out roughly where it is and followed the sign-posts which will probably guide you from most major roads in the area - and take you down the preferred roads and not necessarily the quickest.
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Just checked Tourist Attractions on TomTom5... Hampton Court Palace IS in there... so definately user stupidity.
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You can't expect a teacher to know in what direction the coach driver was going - they have no idea of their own direction.
Sat navs should be banned from use like mobiles as witnessed by 90k Merc driving down a river and woman with high power job using one to go home and turned left up railway line at rail crossing.
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Sat navs should be banned from use like mobiles as witnessed by 90k Merc driving down a river and woman with high power job using one to go home and turned left up railway line at rail crossing.
Both of those cases were caused by idiocy, not sat-nav. Surely then, while you're jumping on the banning bandwagon, you should ban idiots, not sat-nav?
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As a daily user of OS Landranger maps to find out-of-the-way places, I was supercynical about satnav. BUT ..... after 3 months using a Tomtom One, I am truly a convertee - I think it's marvelous. Of course you still have to use common sense, as Westpig says, and I still wouldn't be without my OS maps - but I really do appreciate not having to keep stopping and checking the map all the while. OK, there are a few oddities such as new roads that it doesn't know about and it can't beat local knowledge, but I wouldn't be without it now!
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Waino
Pity you don't have a PDA running TOMTOM because you could get MemoryMap which would give you your OS Landranger maps too. There's PC and Windows PocketPC software with the maps (which are printable). You can plan routes, etc. And with the PDA with GPS you can see where you are on the map when out walking etc. for following routes etc. Or you could set proximity markers so you know you're near, e.g. if you were driving looking for a spot to turn off you could be warned etc. I've done that to find places in the lake district before now.
Excellent software. Anyone not seen this check out the demo of the PC product.
They also recently teamed up with RoadAngel to offer their maps on one of their waterproof devices.. tinyurl.com/38j7al
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Thanks, rtj - I guess it will have to be a RoadAngel next. My friend was using an arrangement using his handheld pc together with a separate unit for the 'satnav' bit (sorry, I don't know enough about it to give it its correct name), but he found that the additional wires and more bits to hide when you parked were an inconvenience. He thought my Tomtom One was very neat in comparison - and he remarked on its speed.
Have you tried a RoadAngel? Is the Adventurer 7000 an all-in-one unit and do you know if it will accept an OS grid ref as a destination input? Thanks.
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Waino
I assume the RoadAngel has the MemoryMap software loaded alongside their routing satnav software. The maps for OS are effectively flat bitmaps so you don't have routing to destination on the OS maps because routing needs mapping data on roads etc. Although you could plot a route that you "follow" when driving but not exactly sat nav.
A feature sadly missing from the latest TomTom (and probably other) software is the ability to navigate to a longditude/latitude which you could easily find by other means.
My way around this has been to use MemoryMap to find the location and figure out where on TomTom that is.
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So the driver was bad on geography this time as he must have thought the destination was in London, as did all the teachers.
Hampton Court Palace IS in the Greater London Authority area, not in Molesey ( which is on the other side of HC bridge ).
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I do not understand the fuss about car navigation systems. I have had one in my car for the last 30 years. It does not need programming I merely have to muse out loud what route I need to take either in the UK or abroad and the matter is taken care of. Not only does it install itself next to me and provide voice prompts, sometimes it must be said in an unduly hysterical tone, but it also provides a regular supply of boiled sweets.
There are alas only five models in the UK including a fully functional 86-year old original; mine was produced in the early 50s.
I have found only two drawbacks. Firstly, it is fatal to inquire of a visiting unit which route it had taken from A-B as this invariably results in a very long and detailed description of same, and a quirk that is specific to mine; having obeyed an instruction to turn left it pokes me in the ribs and tells me it meant the other left or as I call it- right
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Bravo, 007. I have a similar system in my car - although, being a more recent model dating from the late 60s, it sometimes needs prompting for jelly babies. I do miss it when I'm travelling alone, but I miss it more when there's another system in its seat, which may be a similar shape but is nowhere near so well programmed.
The point here - as I'm sure no-one here needs telling - is that a satnav, intelligently used, can certainly save time and trouble. But, like a calculator, it's only a complement to brainpower, not a substitute for it - something I keep trying to impress upon my satnav-obsessed cricket captain, who is invariably the last to arrive at the grounds we visit.
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Trust me, I am a local.
Hampton Court Palace is on the North bank of the Thames and is in Twickenham in Middlesex and in the London borough of richmond on thames.
Before anyone tells that Middlesex doesn't exist - it isn't true.
I don't blame Satnav, I blame the bus driver and a lesser extent all those overpaid teachers sitting there with their brains in shut-down mode.
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"I blame the bus driver and a lesser extent all those overpaid teachers sitting there with their brains in shut-down mode. "
Have you ever tried to tell a coach driver he's going the wrong way? They all have their "own routes" which are "quicker", "shorter" etc., and they stick to them come may. Once had a friend who told me of his trip to Stowe School for a cricket fixture from Leics. Easy eh? Straight down M1 for a bit, then turn right somewhere and an hour or so later you arrive. After a little while there were comments about the strange route, but the driver said "I know the way to Stowe, been there many times". As they wend(ed?) their way through various bits of Warwickshire and Worcs, voices were again raised but "I know the way, this way is quicker than the motorway, are you trying to tell me my job? I know where Stow(e) is you just do your job and I'll do mine, how do you expect me to drive when you are always complaining" The kick-off (?) time came and went and the Cotswolds hove into view. Eventually, as they drove into Stow-on-the Wold the driver turned and said, "Now exactly where in Stow is the school you want?". Very politely, it was pointed out that the school they wanted was in Stowe (Bucks?). "Why the hell didn't you tell me" said the driver. They apparently arrived at Stowe School at about 5pm for their 11am start. The opposition had gone home. This was in the days before mobile phones, the M42, M40 etc.
By the way, I liked the blame you attached to teachers. Since when have they been employed to guide coach drivers? And of course they are overpaid - try it for a week or two. It's a great job as my wife never ceases to tell me. I'm sure you would love being insulted, sworn at, threatened regularly and assaulted occasionally by those 30 recalitrant teenagers sitting (occasionally) in front of you. And after 30 odd years as a (damned good) teacher she gets just over £30k a year.
If they are so overpaid, get a TES, apply for a job, there's a huge shortage, and reap the rewards - but if you serve 'til 65 your life expectancy will be 5 years. Enjoy it.
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Phil
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I thought 'overpaid teachers' a bit much too. They may be power-crazed morons (anyway a measurable percentage of them) but I don't think they are overpaid 'by modern standards' unquote
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I thought 'overpaid teachers' a bit much too. They may be power-crazed morons (anyway a measurable percentage of them) but I don't think they are overpaid 'by modern standards' unquote
I apologize for my comment about 'overpaid teachers', that was unecessary.
I was shooting from the hip.
However did it not occur to any of them (two coaches remember, all armed with mobile phones) that this was a funny way to go to the West London/Surrey/Middlesex area?t
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007,
Either you are Tom Sedman who posted exactly the same on the Telegraph site or your post is an amazing coincidence!!
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Phil
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I laughed till the tears ran down my leg!
I could almost have written this, and my system held up its hand to the other left.
thank you so much
Neil
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I'm happy for Microsoft to be wrong ;-) But some websites also has it down as East Molesey in Surrey such as the official website for Historic Royal Palaces:
hrp.org.uk/hampton/planning_your_visit
This has the address as:
Hampton Court Palace
East Molesey
Surrey
KT8 9AU
England
So the Royal Palaces website needs updating ;-)
Point is though, the driver was to blame for trying to get to the wrong location.
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So the Royal Palaces website needs updating ;-)
So does the Royal Mail website in that case.
--------------
Mike Farrow
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A local village has had official signs erected to warn sat. nav. users. Link below.
tinyurl.com/2ewxtn
P.
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Intrigued by the Royal Mail reference, I just looked up Hampton Court Palace postcode/address using the "search by business name" option.... and here's the URL for the result:
tinyurl.com/2o2zca
they claim there is a business of that name at this address:
Hampton Court Palace
35 Hampton Street
LONDON
SE17 3AN
No wonder the bus driver was confused!
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>> So the Royal Palaces website needs updating ;-) So does the Royal Mail website in that case. -------------- Mike Farrow
I dispute none of the above. My point is that geographically Hampton Court Palace is in Middlesex.
That that administratively and postally it is placed elsewhere doesn't alter that fact
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But some websites... the address as: Hampton Court Palace, East Molesey, Surrey, KT8 9AU, England So the Royal Palaces website needs updating ;-)
Maybe BUT there is no really defined area for about a mile E W or N of the palace while East Molesey is just over the bridge on the other bank of the Thames. ( Thames Ditton is actually opposite the Palace but it is not suitable for visitor traffic) . Long Ditton and Seething Wells, to name but two also look across the Thames to the park).
Trust me (and drbe) I too am a local ( well within a couple of miles) and I commuted daily past the palace for a couple of decades.
Two minutes with a map would have clearly identified where it is and it is very easy to find it .
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Two minutes with a map would have clearly identified where it is and it is very easy to find it .
My very point in the original post, although I didn't think it necessary to state it explicitly. Moreover, how can anyone become even a primary school teacher without ever having learned more or less where Hampton Court Palace is?
I like a nice machine as much as the next person, indeed more than most. The prat in 'pratnav' is the user, not the device.
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By the way, I really enjoyed the way the two satnav enthusiasts started swopping technobabble in the middle of this thread... :o)
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"Moreover, how can anyone become even a primary school teacher without ever having learned more or less where Hampton Court Palace is? "
OK, OK I declare an interest (as obvious from previous post) because my wife is a teacher - but where exactly does it state that the teachers did not know the location of Hampton Court palace?
Do you always guide your bus driver/coach driver/taxi driver/train driver/plane pilot to the destination? Is it not part of their job to have found out where they are going and the route? Let's be honest, this is not the fault of the satnav or the teachers - it was a driver putting in the wrong destination, the satnav seems to have its job perfectly, it got the driver to the exact destination he had programmed in. The teachers seem to have supervised their charges effectively, and done their best to help a lost driver.
""A school outing turned into a disaster when the driver punched the wrong details into his sat nav ... Managing Director [of the coach firm] said "We hold out hands up; it was an older driver with a new gadget"."
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Phil
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PhilW, I am only teasing teachers, not blaming them for the idiot coach driver's idiocy. Even so it would have been good if someone had rapped on the glass and made the guy go to the right place before it was too late. But I agree, he was the culprit and teachers are all right.
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Fair enough, Lud.
Without satnav I'm afraid that this coach driver would probably have looked the destination up in his London A-Z, found it, and arrived at exactly the same destination - NOT Hampton Court Palace!
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Phil
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Fair enough, Lud. >>
No, no, no, Phil, Lud was right first time. Teachers are to blame for everything that's wrong with this country - every time - from not keeping an eye on the coach driver to the increase in knife crime, road rage, bad driving, theft, mugging, drug use ................zzzzzzzzzzz.
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"Teachers are to blame for everything that's wrong with this country - every time - from not keeping an eye on the coach driver to the increase in knife crime, road rage, bad driving, theft, mugging, drug use ................zzzzzzzzzzz. 2
You forgot the theft of Ford Escorts!
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Phil
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You forgot the theft of Ford Escorts!>>
Specifically - yes ....... but I had mentally included Ford escorts in with the general 'theft'. This includes Ford Escorts, Mondeos, all 4-wheeled things, all 2-wheeled things, things without wheels ..........zzzzzzzzz. Teachers ...... pah!
In case you hadn't guessed, SWMBO is a teacher ;-)
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PhilW, I am only teasing teachers, not blaming them for the idiot coach driver's idiocy. Even so it would have been good if someone had rapped on the glass and made the guy go to the right place before it was too late. But I agree, he was the culprit and teachers are all right.
It's too late Lud........SWMBO was out at first light in her combat gear scouring West London for a house with a Skoda in the front garden.....be afraid.
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For those not familiar with the region.
What route from Fareham ( situated between Southampton and Portsmouth) would you select or a Sat Nav select?
Errrr I guess M27 then either M3 or A3(M) and A3 to London
Both the A3 and the M3 J1 at 15 miles from London, IIRC, will /do have a big brown sign with a palace on it and some suitable wording.
Oh dear!!! Not a lot of excuses are there ?
Oh yes there are
Having not noticed these signs....
"At one point a teacher got off to buy a map and when this failed to get the drivers back on track, another member of the group rang the school for directions."
and
"Zenith managing director Alan Jerrim said the drivers' problems were compounded by the fact that the children were riding in two coaches not yet fitted with a tracking device, allowing staff at the company's HQ to pinpoint their location and redirect them. "
tinyurl.com/2uty5y
for story, map and pictures
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Seems like the guy thought that by switching on a gadget he could switch off his brain. It's why I treat cars with sat nav with extra caution.
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VW will soon launch, if not already, a car (okay a van 'cos a Touran) that will self parallel park with you only needing to provide the accelerator input. Lexus already have this and others do/will too.
So the bit that worries me....
... if a car can parallel park using cameras and sensors, and we have lane departure warning (like vibrating seat bolsters in Citroens), lane following in some Hondas, and of course our beloved sat nav....
What will stop really soon (apart from the law) a car being able to navigate, steer and then park at the destination! And it will of course be the wrong Hampton Court Palace in the wrong bit of London/Middlesex/Surrey* (*delete as appropriate). Technology is here I think and I work in IT and that worries me thinking about it.
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VW will soon launch, if not already, a car (okay a What will stop really soon (apart from the law) a car being able to navigate, steer and then park at the destination! And it will of course be the wrong Hampton Court Palace........
But there is no parallel parking at Hampton Court ;-(( now what?
On the approach to Hampton Court from the M3 there is a bus lane (07:00 - 10:00) . Outside these hours approx 95% do not dare enter it and hug the centre line.
What chance reading a map when this is what really happens.
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