I am still trying to work out which german car he is on about though; he's confused me !
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"It's a good idea to change the brake fluid. But anything further, that involves tinkering with the engine should be approached with extreme caution. Jap cars are not designed for maintenance, just consider how difficult the oil filter is to change on your car, and that's just the start..."
What planet have you just beamed in from? Japanese cars are amongst the easiest for routine work - just check out the Autodata repair times.... Special tools sledom if ever needed and the parts fit together properly. There is nothing difficult about the Primera. If you want to see 'difficult' then check out a French car.
Make sure the antifreeze is changed every two years (use Nissan L250 concentrate). Keep the oil clean (use a 5W-30/40 API SL). There was a TSB on gearboxes - original spec of 75W-90 oil changed to 75W-85 - MUST be a GL-4 spec. This improves cold weather shifting. Castrol SMX-S is fine.
Hose clips are fine and similar to those used by other manfrs.
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I had considered replacing the Primera with an Audi A4 or VW Golf.
Although reading the 'bad bits' novels for both cars compared to the 6 or so lines for the Primera probably won't.
Mark25 has a point about the hose clips. They are prone to rust and usually need to be carefully cut off.
The oil filter is not too difficult - I believe it is more awkward on the 2.0.
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I had considered replacing the Primera with an Audi A4 or VW Golf. Although reading the 'bad bits' novels for both cars compared to the 6 or so lines for the Primera probably won't. Mark25 has a point about the hose clips. They are prone to rust and usually need to be carefully cut off. The oil filter is not too difficult - I believe it is more awkward on the 2.0.
The wire type hose clips are used by lots of manfrs and can be a pain to get off. Give them a soak of penetrating oil and leave. Otherwise I use a Dremel with a small stone and nick them through where they loop over onto the threaded bit - only takes 30 seconds. Then replace with Jubliee! The Germans use poor clips as well - no one is innocent.
Oil filter on the 2.0 (SR20DE) is on the lower rear O/S of the block. Dead easy on the ramps or over a pit... There's plenty worse - the humble 1.4 VW engine for example - difficult to get your mitts on that if they're big and fat like mine!
If you want a difficult job try changing the plugs on a Renault Espace V6.
Or try doing ANYTHING on a Smart or perhaps an A-Class - what a pain they are! Drop the engine to change a belt....
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Oil filter on the 2.0 (SR20DE) is on the lower rear O/S of the block.
The SR20DE i worked on (some bits seemed phase II and some phase III according to haynes) had the oil filter upside down in a tight hole between the inlet manifold and head. It was sort of inside 1/2 a cup to catch all the oil that inevitably fell out when you unscrewed it. Which was diffeicult because there's onlt 2 -3 mm between the cup and filter. In the spray bar picture above it would be just to the left of the left cam sprocket, under the inlet manifold sensors.
>>The Germans use poor clips as well - no one is innocent.
This is true, but because the german car is designed to last longer than the 9 year life of the clip, there's a level switch in the coolant reservior. This level sensor serves virtually no purpose for the first 9 years, but comes into its own in the next 11 years, when hoses and clips start to fail. Why doesn't the nissan have such a level switch again???
Here's a classic example of something that's built to last, lift the cam cover on a '83/'84 golf gti (you still can, they're not all scrap like most nissans of the era) and you will be greeted by a sight similar to this:
home.hetnet.nl/~collerm/bora_cam_1.jpg
A big thick cam with wide (probably unworn) lobes, bevelled lobe edges, resting on BIG bucket tappets, themsleves sitting in a pool of drained oil. Take step back, BREATH, then consider what physical attributes of what you're looking at have contributed to the fact that it's still in good nick. Then consider what pyhsical aspects are missing from the SR20DE.
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Thanks Aprilia,
I had seen the advice you gave someone else about the gearbox oil spec on here.
My local shop didn't have any. Do you know if Nissan would be expensive?
I have been using 10W40 engine oil as per user manual and bought some magnatec last weekend but it rained.
Would it be best to get 5W-30/40 API SL?
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Don't get me wrong, they're good cars (more reliable than german) when new and upto a certain age, but then...
I've spent many years doing extra preventative maintenance on engines, only to see the car become scrap through the bodywork, which the engine would have probably outlasted anyway, without all the extra care and attention.
I've had a '95 primera sd20de engine in kit form, only the head, etc (because the shot body wouldn't have stood having the block removed). NEVER AGAIN !!!! most jobs were 20x harder than on a german equivalent, the parts were extortionate and the state of what i saw unbelievable, almost everything was broken, even down to the gearbox bellhousing having a crack in it:
home.hetnet.nl/~collerm/PLAATJESMAP/Mark/Cars/niss...g
The car was 1 owner, fsh, 90k.
IMO if your going to put time and effort into a car between 10 and 20 years old, you may as well make life easy for yourself and get a german car, have a nose round a porsche 924 sometime for the evidence, but each to their own....
So here's a pic of the cam oil spray pipes, if anybodys interested:
home.hetnet.nl/~collerm/PLAATJESMAP/Mark/Cars/niss...g
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You had a bad one then ! Doesn't make the majority like that. The QG and SR engines are very very reliable, only needing regular good oil changes and other routine maintenance.
Porsche - not quite run of the mill German marques, even for a poverty 924 model.
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I know the Porche 924 very well. Parts for those ain't cheap either!
Can't understand what you are saying about the Primera. I've been 'professionally' working on cars the best part of 30 years - lots of Mercedes. The Primera is no more difficult than any other car in its class, probably easier than most. I can't understand why anything should be 20x harder?
Your links don't work, but I do genuinely know of Primera taxis that have clocked up over 400k miles on the original engine. I don't understand why 'everything was broken' on yours - unless it was driven across a ploughed field or something.
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>>I do genuinely know of Primera taxis that have clocked up over 400k miles on the original
engine. >>
My son has just bought his 2000 W Primera based on the knowledge that new immigrant minicab drivers go for Primeras because they are cheap and reliable.
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I used to work in the QC labs for British Steel, and the Japanese manfrs had rigid standards, especially Toyota, right down to their delivery times! I would have thought the UK built Primera used galvanized steel (IZ) like the other Japanese did, so not sure why mark25 insists on poor bodies - poor crash repairs maybe?
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agree with mark25, the engines /gearboxes/ drivetrain on primeras are good but the bodywork
is prone to rust, rear brake calipers are prone to seizing and parts (not filters etc. ) are expensive.
i owned two 2.0 lt petrol models. one went to 165k the other was traded in at 68k as it was starting to develop the faults of the first one. jag.
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Mark said ". Jap cars are not designed for maintenance, just consider how difficult the oil filter is to change on your car, "
Hmm . I don't know about ALL Japanese cars (unlike Mark who claims to) but changing oil and all filters on my Diesel Yaris was very easy. It's Japanese in case Mark is unaware of that fact:-)
(and made in Japan as well....)
Beware of generalisations is all I can say .. and advice from those who generalise.. :-))
madf
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agree with mark25, the engines /gearboxes/ drivetrain on primeras are good but the bodywork ...
I didn't say they were good !!! I said they would outlast the rest of the car without extra preventative maintenance. This is my favorite part of the SR20de engine:
home.hetnet.nl/~collerm/PLAATJESMAP/Mark/Cars/niss...G
shared cam follwers, i'll leave it to the imagination to guess what happens to the cam (i've got piccies) as the valve springs start to weaken differently, or the valves start to stick.
Oh no, that's not tmy favorite part, the best bit is the fact there are NO TDC marks on the timing chain. There are marks: but they are 1/2 TDC so a monkey can put it together at assembly. Not that useful for maintanance TBQFH tho. If you want to do DIY on the chain you have to make your OWN marks, that tells me something............
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I used to work in the QC labs for British Steel, and the Japanese manfrs had rigid standards, especially Toyota, right down to their delivery times! I would have thought the UK built Primera used galvanized steel (IZ) like the other Japanese did, so not sure why mark25 insists on poor bodies - poor crash repairs maybe?
No, the car in question was a '95 primera 2.0 SLX, one owner, 90k, fsh and no crashes. Interestingly it was purchased because a german motor magazine recomended it because it was the only nissan built in Japan, all the other models at the time were apparently built in the UK and of lower quality. There was a hole behind the front valence (2 yrs go) which i could fit my (far from spindly) fist through. In the middle of a panel, not at a join.
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No, the car in question was a '95 primera 2.0 SLX, one owner, 90k, fsh and no crashes. Interestingly it was purchased because a german motor magazine recomended it because it was the only nissan built in Japan, all the other models at the time were apparently built in the UK and of lower quality. There was a hole behind the front valence (2 yrs go) which i could fit my (far from spindly) fist through. In the middle of a panel, not at a join.
I find this baffeling. These cars were built in Sunderland and exported back to Japan and also to the US. They were sold in the US as the Infinit G20 and came very high up in the JD Power survey of that period.
The SR20DE's are incredibly tough and reliable engines - voted one of the all time best engines by Car & Driver in the US. They have been turboed and modded to hell in the US (some up to 400+bhp) and survived. They mantra is 'fluid and filters'. Don't know why yours should have rusted so much. They do rust, but no worse than any other car. Only place I've seen with bad rust on the Primera is at the rear dog leg on the sill on the early ones. Similarly the cracked bell housing is a puzzle - this HAS to be down to some kind of abuse.
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Oil filter on the 2.0 (SR20DE) is on the lower rear O/S of the block.
The SR20DE i worked on (some bits seemed phase II and some phase III according to haynes) had the oil filter upside down in a tight hole between the inlet manifold and head. It was sort of inside 1/2 a cup to catch all the oil that inevitably fell out when you unscrewed it. Which was diffeicult because there's onlt 2 -3 mm between the cup and filter. In the spray bar picture above it would be just to the left of the left cam sprocket, under the inlet manifold sensors.
>>The Germans use poor clips as well - no one is innocent.
This is true, but because the german car is designed to last longer than the 9 year life of the clip, there's a level switch in the coolant reservior. This level sensor serves virtually no purpose for the first 9 years, but comes into its own in the next 11 years, when hoses and clips start to fail. Why doesn't the nissan have such a level switch again???
Here's a classic example of something that's built to last, lift the cam cover on a '83/'84 golf gti (you still can, they're not all scrap like most nissans of the era) and you will be greeted by a sight similar to this:
home.hetnet.nl/~collerm/bora_cam_1.jpg
A big thick cam with wide (probably unworn) lobes, bevelled lobe edges, resting on BIG bucket tappets, themsleves sitting in a pool of drained oil. Take step back, BREATH, then consider what physical attributes of what you're looking at have contributed to the fact that it's still in good nick. Then consider what pyhsical aspects are missing from the SR20DE.
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I find this baffeling. These cars were built in Sunderland and exported back to Japan and also to the US.
I don't know the full story from '95, but do know that was the underlying reason it was purchased. Maybe the mag was wrong (unusual) maybe you are wrong... Maybe the body was built in the UK and the rest of the car was assembled in Japan.
They were sold in the US as the Infinit G20 and came very high up in the JD Power survey of that period.
What age cars do they survey? No ones questioning the that they do well in the top gear 3 year old study.
What's on debate here is: Should you perform extra preventative maintenance on a 9 year old nissan......????
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Right now i've got the attention of all the nissan geeks:
I bought an outer rear wheel bearing for my ''96 golf 3 the other day, 3.25 + vat etc......
Now i need one for a colleages '92 nissan sunny 2.0 D, if anyone can tell me where i can get one for less than 70 UKP i'd really appreciate it.
Cheers Mark
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Mark25 - clearly you really don't like Nissans and you really do like German cars. Fair enough - but most of what you've posted is wrong.
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Mark25 - clearly you really don't like Nissans
One headgasket job was enough to put me off for life.
>>and you really do like German cars.
I did when they (VW's) were basic but high quality in the '70's and early '80s. It was a shame they had to change to get people to keep buying them, virtually the same as the rest now. It's a shame.
>>Fair enough - but most of what you've posted is wrong.
I've seen a lot of hot air like that in this thread, but not much scientific evidence or engineering facts to back it up.
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Sounds to me like youve based your opinions on one bad experience of a nissan engine, You keep mentioning mileage and one owner but how do you know that one owner wasnt a complete idiot that didnt pay heed to service intervals, only used cheap £5 a gallon oils and kept the car outside next to a pile of rock salt when it wasnt being driven by their numerous family members in a fashion normally reserved for thieving chavscum!!
Ive worked on datsuns (very old nissans) in same age group as me up to new nissans and been pleasently suprised at the ease at which I could replace parts etc, all of which comes down to build quality of japanese machinery and 'preventative maintenance' from the owners. A regularly washed and serviced nissan will live just as long as any german offering, rust only forms if you leave it to form.
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Sounds to me like youve based your opinions on one bad experience of a nissan engine, You keep mentioning mileage and one owner but how do you know that one owner wasnt a complete idiot that didnt pay heed to service intervals, only used cheap £5 a gallon oils and kept the car outside next to a pile of rock salt when it wasnt being driven by their numerous family members in a fashion normally reserved for thieving chavscum!!
I know the owner very well !! he's my father-in-law, he's no idiot, he's an F16 fighter pilot so drives very carefully as he doesn't need to get his kicks from a nissan. He lives 30 miles from the coast. The car was religiously serviced at the main dealer, regardless of cost, he paid 2000 pounds in airconditioning faults alone within 2 years. There aren't many better looked after cars on the road.
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I know the owner very well !! he's my father-in-law, he's no idiot, he's an F16 fighter pilot so drives very carefully as he doesn't need to get his kicks from a nissan. He lives 30 miles from the coast. The car was religiously serviced at the main dealer, regardless of cost, he paid 2000 pounds in airconditioning faults alone within 2 years. There aren't many better looked after cars on the road.
Is this a wind-up (troll?) F-16 flying FiL driving 10+ year old Primera with 90k?? Sorry, but all smells very fishy to me.
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smells fishy?
That be the antifreeze leaking? Has he mentioned that yet?
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There aren't manybetter looked after cars on the road.
what with fist sized holes in!! Sorry but I no longer believe you at all.
Back on topic I stand by my original statement. preventative maintenance can pay dividends and well worth the effort. Beats watching the idiot box even if you do get back ache and scratched arms/hands.
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No, the car in question was a '95 primera 2.0 SLX, one owner, 90k, fsh and no crashes. Interestingly it was purchased because a german motor magazine recomended it because it was the only nissan built in Japan, all the other models at the time were apparently built in the UK and of lower quality.
Was it an estate model per chance? IIRC this was the only version built in Japan.
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i also had large hole in rear o/s inner wheel arch, L reg 2.0lt petrol. this was at 7 yrs old and approx
110k. my later Y reg one was also poorly treated underneath and was showin signs of rust on chassis members at 5/6 yrs. by the way i liked the primeras, a super car to drive and fairly reliable
apart from the odd electrical fault and brake calipers. jag.
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>>Was it an estate model per chance?
Yes.
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Mine is a hatchback.
Should I cancel the skip?
I have had very few problems.
ABS ring - New CV joint £150 fitted at local independant..
Wiper motor (wouldn't park) - £35 from breakers.
Heater blower resistor - £30 from Nissan
Section of corroded brake pipe replaced - £50
Wiper spindles - Free. I cut down silicon sealer nozzles. Perfect fit over the rusty spindles!
Clutch cable bush - Free. Modified tap washer.
Cat back exhaust at 100K
4 Tyres, 1 set front brake pads, ht leads, dizzy cap and rotor.
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>>what with fist sized holes in!! Sorry but I no longer believe you at all.
home.hetnet.nl/~collerm/PLAATJESMAP/Mark/Cars/niss...g
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Original CGTi thread, asking for some advice on 30th October 04: post 6 is the best.
www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34324
He works on cars ! I should have listened to him, but having an open mind (rare here !!!) i thought i could put lots of time into it and get it as good as new. What a shock i was in for, oh well, put it down to experience.
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mark25 (from msg 7 - www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34324):
" it wouldn't be broken if the father-in-law hadn't just driven it 10 miles with no water! "
Doubt you'd get it "good as new" after that TBH. It's interesting you didn't care to mention this fact when discussing the damage with the engine earlier in this thread.
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