How much does the size of the engine affect durability?
Assuming you follow the service schedule, should there be any difference between a 1.3 and a 3.0 in terms of how long the main components in the engine should last?
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A bigger less stressed engine will always last longer than a smaller engine in the same environment, barring any inherent design flaws.
But when a small engine can do 150,000 miles these days, does it really matter?
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Ride magazine this month featured a Honda Hornet 600 (motorcycle) with 110,000 miles on the clock. It had been serviced (with standard car oil) every 8,000 miles, had never even had the cam cover removed to have the valve clearances checked, yet it still apparently performed well and sounded sweet. I also know a guy with a Kawasaki ZZR600 with 170,000 on the original engine and still going strong, although it has had the camchain and the carburettors replaced
As mss1tw says, 150k is to be expected on any engine if looked after
Cheers
DP
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Ride magazine this month featured a Honda Hornet 600 (motorcycle) with 110,000 miles on the clock. It had been serviced (with standard car oil) every 8,000 miles, had never even had the cam cover removed to have the valve clearances checked, yet it still apparently performed well and sounded sweet.
I've owned my Hornet 600 since it was new in 1998.
Currently with twenty k up, it looks like it's going to out live me!
I've not seen the article but would wager that it's Wuntun's from the Hornet's Nest (owners club). He's was running his Hornet on Castrol car oil yonks ago along with a home made wire-mesh-and-oil filter replacing the paper element that attracted a lot of knowing derision at the time. When I last browsed the website his bike was nudging 100k miles.
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You've got to compare like with like on the usage side also, though. A small engine that was regularly doing medium to longer journeys (and so well-warmed up) will do better than a larger that just doing short trips and towing often.
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Is it to do with smaller engines generally reving higher?
Im just wondering how long the 1.3 in my van will last - most likely longer than the bodywork.
Im doing 15k a year now on average but that may well rise quite a bit.
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Generally a larger engine will last longer, but not always. I am convinced that if you follow the following basic rules almost any any engine will give a very long life:
Change the oil regularly -- when it starts to discolour (so cheap and easy to do yourself)
Change the oil filter at least every other oil change
Don't thrash the engine when it's cold
Keep coolant top up.
More than one mechanic has told me that in their opinion the biggest cause of premature engine failure is oil related.
Bigger is best though!
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I have heard of a Yamaha Fazer 600 with over 200k on the clock, only ever serviced, i.e no engine repair work and still sweet.
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A bigger less stressed engine will always last longer than a smaller engine ........
Bigger engines are not necessarily less stressed. You may not be using such a large percentage of the available torque/power but the larger mass of the moving parts will have an effect on durability. And don't forget that not every manufacturer incorporates the same degree of quality and robustness. In general you get what you pay for.
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L\'escargot.
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IMO (uninformed) the big and lazy = unstressed and durable held good years ago. That was the way they did things in the US - big, robust and generally bullet-proof. But modern, higher-quality production seems to have improved the lot, and lifespan, of smaller engines. I reckon oil quality (reasonably frequent changes) and regular long journeys are now the biggest contributors to long engine life. Even big engiines need that; every modern engine is pretty damn complex/high-tech and giving a high output for capacity.
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"Im just wondering how long the 1.3 in my van will last"
This is what I do with my van.
1) Halve the oil and filter change interval.
2) Change both filter and oil every 6 months if this occurs before mileage.
3) Stick to one oil and make sure its `at least` but preferably better than the spec in the book.
I once ran a Maestro diesel up to 130,000 with the above plan and the engine was like new.
The point I want to make though is that amongst others of the same type it was quieter as the mileage grew, so much so that the supplying garage commented on it. ( I did my own oil changes and regular servicing) I changed my oil and filter at half theirs.
This has been my formula for `everlasting engines` ( oil related) since 1965 with 22 vehicles.
You could put up an argument that its not cost effective, but to be *sure* to give a particular engine the very best over a long ownership IMHO its worth it.
For what its worth, I have formed the view that manufacturers service intervals compromise `ultimate` engine life, as though they are competing with each other over service costs.
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Got it right there, l'Escargot. It's all about using quality materials really. That's why so many BMC long-stroke engines like the old B series went on and on and on even though bodies rusted away and they started burning a bit of oil - they were made from decent metals.
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SWMBO has a 1.3 Yaris - I have a 2.3 Mazda - one car is one year older than the other - Yaris has 61k and Mazda 65k - both have full service history -- Yaris is perfect - spotless exhaust no knocks or rattles on engine -- Mazda - running rich - valve seal leaking - oil seals from rocker cover to plug holes leaking on three plugs - who knows answer - my old 92 V6 Mazda with 114k ran fine.
Dave
ps I prefer Mazda
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I don't think the answer is that simple. If two manufacturers both built a 2.0l engine their performance and reliability could be very different. The size of the car will probably make a difference too, a 1.2 supermini engine may actually be less stressed than a big 4x4 with a 1.8 or 2.0 litre engine.
The other factors, which will depend on the car's usage, is how quick the engines warm up. Small engines warm up quicker than bigger engines. If you do shorter trips with a large engine it is less likely to warm up, which will cause a lot more wear (which I don't go into here). I personally can't see a big engine being much more reliable than a small one based purely on the capacity.
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Having just looked at the high mileage listings on the Volvo OC website, it would appear the 1.4 340 model can do 200k alright, so perhaps its as much about engineering as it is useage?
Then again, the 1.4 was a Renault unit wasnt it?
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I don't think the answer is that simple. If two manufacturers both built a 2.0l engine their performance and reliability could be very different.
It's happened with one manufacturer on the same engine. Look what happened to the Vauxhall C20XE over its lifetime. The original engine with its Coscast head and forged pistons was an unbreakable peach of a thing which was known to still be capable of producing its quoted power and torque outputs at 150,000 miles. Many people taking even high mileage units out of cars to install in kit cars don't even bother rebuilding them if they're running OK.
The later units used cheap cast pistons and in-house cast heads, produced about 5% less power, and often died at 60,000 miles with terminal coolant and oil mixing. They also did not stand up anywhere near as well to hard use.
Cheers
DP
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IMO, durability has much more to do with engine class, detail design, the effective mitigation of damaging vibration, appropriate material choices, appropriate processing of these materials, engine useage patterns and maintenance than by the size of the engine.
By engine class, I mean that a heavy commercial vehicle engine is designed for a longer and more arduous working life than the engine in a motor car, and as such cannot form part of the comparison.
Some time ago, there was a series of papers written by SS Tressilian (forgive the dodgy spelling) on comparative engine design, where he reduced all the main engine design equations down to their bare minimum, to allow the comparison of "equivalent" engines. These papers are useful for estimating what effect a change will have on performance, economy, and stress.
One thing I find truly curious. Engines in motor cars have never been as reliable or long-lasting, but many on this site are obsessed with oils and engine failure. Why?
Number_Cruncher
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